Why do people pass out at faith healing services?

[Bob Carabbio]

It's part of the "ritual".

" My question is why do people so commonly pass out at these “healing services�

Mostly because it's a "Learned religious ritual" that's popular in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches these days. When the Lord causes a person to "Fall out" there's no "Voluntary contribution" to it, and "Catchers" aren't much use since the Person isn't cooperating in the "ritual" by falling backward stiff-legged as they need to do for the ritual to "work properly".

When I'm prayed for, I generally set one leg behind the other as a "clue" for the person praying that I'm not "Playing his little game". And if the Lord decides to make me fall out, I simply WILL.

 

[Alabaster]

" My question is why do people so commonly pass out at these “healing services”?verified) healings where no one passed out. "

Mostly because it's a "Learned religious ritual" that's popular in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches these days. When the Lord causes a person to "Fall out" there's no "Voluntary contribution" to it, and "Catchers" aren't much use since the Person isn't cooperating in the "ritual" by falling backward stiff-legged as they need to do for the ritual to "work properly".

When I'm prayed for, I generally set one leg behind the other as a "clue" for the person praying that I'm not "Playing his little game". And if the Lord decides to make me fall out, I simply WILL.

It is not a learned ritual for those who have spiritual integrity.

Anyone who literally steels himself against the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't have to worry. He won't be 'bothering' that one. That is called quenching....although I have heard of people who tried to guard themselves against the Holy Spirit having His way and lost...much to their joyous pleasure!

 

[Sparkey]

It is not a learned ritual for those who have spiritual integrity.

Anyone who literally steels himself against the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't have to worry. He won't be 'bothering' that one. That is called quenching....although I have heard of people who tried to guard themselves against the Holy Spirit having His way and lost...much to their joyous pleasure!

Alabaster, I would respectfully disagree and ask if you have tested what you say --no, not by quenching but instead by experiencing the full power of the Holy Spirit while remaining still?

Even during the one time that I fell my will and ability to remain in control was never violated. I will never call rape for the good that the Lord has done in me. If on the other hand, I am inhabited by a spirit that violates my will to the extent that I have zero control over my body, and I fall uncontrolled at risk to life and limb then start shaking in what could be mis-interpreted as an epileptic siezure just short of foaming at the mouth, well - that's the part I question about some of the things I see on Television but have never personally experienced. Of course, if my description of what I saw falls short of what I'm trying to describe but is only remotely similar? Disregard it as ignorance, in no way would I want my thought to be disrespectful to that which is by definition Holy. What I've seen though looked too fake to me, maybe that's just me but I honestly doubt it.

I could easily go to Youtube and find a video of what I'm trying to describe and what others may be in reference to. Oftentimes pictured in a very small church, one thinks it would be wise to look for snakes upon entering. The preacher approaches a willing victim and forces them to fall by pushing them, sometimes smacking them so loud on the forehead that you can hear the <thud> - and yeah, they fall backward. That kind of "passing out" at "healing services" is, to me, very much learned behavior. I would say more but don't want to offend people too much and probably have said too much already. But maybe a YouTube video would be a good idea for the OP to bring to clarify what can represent different experiences. The description "passing out" isn't of that much more use as a descriptive phrase than the term "holy rollers". It could be that my confusion here is more about semantics than anything else.

There are some things that I've seen in what I call "wild fire" assemblies where people, in their enthusiasm are not properly heeding what is found in the spirit of what Paul admonished when he spoke to his flock at Corinth. They were not following proper decorum and some were getting fleshly in their displays of spiritual things to the extent that Paul admonished them not to forbid the speaking in tongues but also that all things be done in order for the edification of the body. I don't think he would smile upon some of the things that I've seen and heard about either. The "catchers" at the assembly that I'm familiar with were not there because of any forceful touch by the flesh of the minister, nor was it a "conditioned response" or a learned behavior that they were present for, rather it was for two things only. If somebody fell under the power of the Holy Spirit, they (ministers who could be called 'catchers') were present so that nobody would get hurt in the event that they were inexperienced and fell in a manner that they could get hurt, not knowing that they didn't have to and that they could be "slain" in the spirit without the overt drama. It didn't happen that often but often enough so that precautions were not folly - the second reason was even more simple - while caught up in the Holy Ghost, women who wore skirts sometimes forget about themselves to the degree that their modesty would be served by a well placed blanket.

~Sparrow

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster, I would respectfully disagree and ask if you have tested what you say --no, not by quenching but instead by experiencing the full power of the Holy Spirit while remaining still?

Even during the one time that I fell my will and ability to remain in control was never violated. I will never call rape for the good that the Lord has done in me. If on the other hand, I am inhabited by a spirit that violates my will to the extent that I have zero control over my body, well - that's the part I question about some of the things I see on Television but have never personally experienced. Of course, if my description of what I saw falls short of what I'm trying to describe? Disregard it as ignorance, in no way would I want my thought to be disrespectful to that which is by definition Holy. What I've seen though looked too fake to me, maybe that's just me.

There is no manifestation of the Holy Spirit given where we cannot exercise our will and disengage. That is why we are told to be quiet in prophetic tongues if there is no interpreter. That is why we must prophesy in order, which means be quiet if it is not the right time according to leadership. Holy Spirit is a gentleman and He doesn't overpower us so that we become automatons.

When a believer falls under the power of the Holy Spirit to the floor, it is gentle, even without a 'catcher'---even if it looks like a violent fall to the eye-witness! We can move, we can get up at any time. He doesn't override our will and our responsibility to step out of the manifestation for any reason we wish.

I also see this falling manifestation on TV as a bit over the top---sometimes (depending on what program I am watching!), but you know what? I do not judge it. God can do much more than anything I have witnessed or experienced. It is His place to judge in that regard, for I am not there to witness the fruit from it.

All I know is that He never overrides our personal control, for He wants us to use it as well as to submit it to Him.

 

[Sam21]

I watched a show about people who were wanting to be possessed by a demon spirit in India and if one did not know, they could have mistaken what was happening for some church services in America. I think there are folks out there giving themselves over to demon spirits and think they are submitting to the Lord.
First, God does not over ride our will and just take over our body, if we just yeild ourselves to an experience we may get the experience but not from God. I do believe that some christians do fall down from the Holy Spirit, however many just lay down because they are expected to. It is obvious that some fall and others simply do not, we should just leave that in the hand of God because we do not know why.

 

[reba]

The description "passing out" isn't of that much more use as a descriptive phrase than the term "holy rollers".

Yup i have seen the holy rollers. Some said if ya didn't sing the right song and get the mood going you were quenching the Holy Spirit! Never mind the scriptures this is what we want..... The town was small enough to know the folks and the more the jumped and shouted ya kinda knew they were covering up something ungodly.

Much of what goes on today under the guise of the Holy Spirit aint much better


Sparrow post #120 lovely

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks you guys, I know that sometimes when I write, my heart is in the right place but something twists it and I lose my intent - what we know about the tongue is that it is unruly and it's important to speak well -- James even goes so far as to say that if a man does not bridle his tongue [to the purpose of the Sprirt] his religion is vainity.

So I was (and have been) afraid to speak about some of the more precious things that I've recieved from the Lord. Nice to be among brothers and sisters here. We are in the "Apologetics and Theology" forum and not in Christian advice, so pardon if I kinda quiet up again. Don't wanna stir the wildlife too much.

 

[Igor]

Okay, I'm gonna tell you about when "IT" happened to me....

Thanks for the great testimony, Sparrowhawke. I enjoyed reading it and learned from it!

...The description "passing out" isn't of that much more use as a descriptive phrase than the term "holy rollers". It could be that my confusion here is more about semantics than anything else...

Had I started this thread today, after learning how many of you have experienced this phenomena and what it was like, I might have used a different term than "passing out", but even with that shortcoming, I think you and many of the other posters have a pretty good idea what I was referring too, and the ongoing sharing is appreciated.

 

[Chris]

Thanks for the great testimony, Sparrowhawke. I enjoyed reading it and learned from it!





Had I started this thread today, after learning how many of you have experienced this phenomena and what it was like, I might have used a different term than "passing out", but even with that shortcoming, I think you and many of the other posters have a pretty good idea what I was referring too, and the ongoing sharing is appreciated.

It is such a bizarre concept unless you attend ervices where it is common it it really weird the first time you experience it. last weekend I was talking about it to some guys at church who are used to it and they were laughing at me because i was amazed by it all. we were joking the guy must have had ether up his sleeve thts what happened to me lol

 

[Igor]

It is such a bizarre concept unless you attend ervices where it is common it it really weird the first time you experience it. last weekend I was talking about it to some guys at church who are used to it and they were laughing at me because i was amazed by it all. we were joking the guy must have had ether up his sleeve thts what happened to me lol

LOL, ether up his sleeve. That's one I hadn't heard before!

Many years ago I was at a couple of events where this was happening, but both times it seemed put on and faked, and I didn't personally know anyone who went forward to get healed. Much like speaking in tongues, the falling down part is a dramatic show that fits into what a lot of people mistakenly think makes you look "spiritual", is fairly easy to fake or create, and if done well it is hard to disprove. So it seems there are a lot of fakes out there on both sides, "healer" and "healee"!

I do wish there was a more solid backing in scripture, but it's interesting to hear what it is like and why it happens from those who have really experienced it or have knowledge of it. It's not something I've ever experienced, but then, I've never gone forward at a "faith healing service" or had a need for a miraculous type healing in my life so far. Too bad we have to put up with all the "false prophets" out there faking this and giving Christianity a bad name!

Another question on this... If the falling down is a manefestation of the overpowering work of the Holy Spirit in the person, why does it only happen at "faith healings"? Certainly the Holy Spirit performs other miracles that are just as important and just as wonderful to the person involved. So why does a person fall down only when they are healed (and even then, not all the time)?

 

[pjt]

So why does a person fall down only when they are healed (and even then, not all the time)?

That`s an interesting question since not one time did anyone fall under the direct healing touch of Jesus, son of God. Even the woman that touched the hem of Jesus` garment did not fall over even though Jesus felt the healing power going out of Him and into her. Falling out in the church was not a practice in Biblical times. A time cut out for falling in the church is a modern practice.

I think the difference is Jesus just calmly healed the people. He did not work people up into an emotional climax before performing miracles. A person right off the street could walk up to Him and be healed, but in healing services today you basically have to wait until the climatic healing time. The emotions are carefully orchestrated. People generally don`t realize a lot of what is happening to them and around them is orchestrated. If they are caught up in the emotion, they tend to think it`s the Holy Spirit but really it`s emotion that can be generated in any atmosphere--pagen workship, political party, or rock concert.

Again, I don`t discount people`s feelings or experiences. I believe they are truly exerperiencing wonderful feelings, but it should be understood the service is man made designed to orchestrate these feelings. I have been to many of these kinds of meetings and services with family and friends and the pattern tends to be the same at all of them. The service builds up to this moment. It is well planned.

 

[mrroy1937]

I've been in many services where people behave as you described. Let me say that it is not required that people respond in this way. If you are in a service that the minister insists that you behave this way, I would promtly leave. Such a person is dictating to the Holy Spirit how He is to move.

Being slain in the Spirit represents a humleness before God. John, while on the Isle of Patmos, fell as if dead. There have been a few times that I have reacted in such a way. But it doesn't always happen.

Other times, I've seen people healed simply because they believe that Jesus is not only Savior but healer. Through believing, they recieved healing.

So, let's not put God in a box. Let's not say that He has to move in a certain way. Likewise, no minister has the right to insist that people respond the same way every time he or she ministers.

 

[Alabaster]

The emotions are carefully orchestrated. People generally don`t realize a lot of what is happening to them and around them is orchestrated. If they are caught up in the emotion, they tend to think it`s the Holy Spirit but really it`s emotion that can be generated in any atmosphere--pagen workship, political party, or rock concert.

This manifestation is not due to emotionalism. That is the wrong conclusion of people who have never experienced it. It may appear that way, but that is the carnal view of something that is spiritual, and we must guard our tongues when we speak of it with judgment for fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[Igor]

...it should be understood the service is man made designed to orchestrate these feelings. I have been to many of these kinds of meetings and services with family and friends and the pattern tends to be the same at all of them. The service builds up to this moment. It is well planned.

Yeah, this is the way it appeared at the ones I attended. I didn't walk out because I was a really young Christian and wasn't sure of what I was seeing at the time, but the more I looked back on it, the less inclined I was to return to this type of event. Even back then, as a new Christian, I understood that while we aren't supposed to be judgmental, we are told to be discerning, and I could tell something was wrong with what I was seeing at those particular events as well as many of the video taped events I have seen since. As others here have said, we could see the same thing at some rock concerts (women in the front rows passing out at Beatles and Elvis concerts, etc) and at some pagan events as well. Clearly, deciding someone fell to the ground probably because of planned and orchestrated hype falls under discernment, and just the fact that it happens at a planned religious event run with the same psychological principles put to use as the concerts and pagan events is no reason to suspend discernment.

But then there are those who are rational Christians, not prone to be attracted only to the hype of the moment, that have had very real experiences with this. I agree that we can't "put God in a box" as some have suggested we are doing when we question this.

But I still wonder if this is the now common way that God heals people (as we are being led to believe today), and since the actual healings are primarily the same today as they were in Jesus time (Body starts with ailment, ailment goes away instantly and miraculously.), why didn't we see "slain in the spirit" at even just one of the healings in the Bible? There is no difference in today's world concerning healings that would require this. Do we dare to say that God has changed his mind about how things are to be done?

 

[Chris]

Another question on this... If the falling down is a manefestation of the overpowering work of the Holy Spirit in the person, why does it only happen at "faith healings"? Certainly the Holy Spirit performs other miracles that are just as important and just as wonderful to the person involved. So why does a person fall down only when they are healed (and even then, not all the time)?

As far as i know from looking it up this can happen even by laying on of hands without healing being involved. I have had a feeling like being overwhelmed by something I presume is the holy spirit in prayer with god or at certain cervices concerning attempting to bring the presence of the holy spirit into a room.

If you want to look at it from a different angle and strip away from it our religion and the way we attribute it to the work of the holy spirit then you could think about the communal positive energy in the room. For people who are skeptical this seems more probable.I have heard people speculate that the energy in the room surrounding the euphoria of it all could contribute substantially.

Personally I am sure that theory is flawed in that I stood there trying to resist it without the desire to be over come and fall on the ground. Although having a hope and expectation of divine intervention, I still kept my rational mind as to what must be real at the time and not added into by high expectations etc. Whatever it was It went through my body starting at the head and finally weakening my knees and making it difficult to stand It was just easier to lay as it swept through me. there you go objective observation first hand. I personally could find no logical explanation other than something unseen in the room with us. This most of us would refer to as the holy spirit a part of our living god.

 

[Sparkey]

Regarding the orchestration of such events: It's a heart matter.

We are to be wise like serpents, right?
No.

That's not enough. The admonition that is cut in half and stated that way leaves the crucial part out. We are to be wise as serpents -AND- harmless as doves. I'm not in favor of man's attempts to engineer "divine service" because our hearts are to follow Him --not to lead or force what appears godly to our eyes or ears, but it is our duty to worship God in Spirit and in truth. Yes, we should be wise, but the need to be harmless is the key to understanding the move of the Holy Spirit who is altogether apart from all sin. If ministers have ulterior motives I can not tell, but God searches hearts and it will be made known

All need to consider what Moses said, "Why now are you transgressing the command of the LORD, for that will not succeed?
Do not go up lest you be struck down before your enemies, for the LORD is not among you.
Any time man tried to move the Arc of the Covenant without God -- there were dire consequences.
Today is different than yesterday but we should still take care because our God is the same yesterday and today and always.

Let me try to emphasize what Chris said one post below, "As far as i know from looking it up this can happen even by laying on of hands without healing being involved. I have had a feeling like being overwhelmed by something I presume is the holy spirit in prayer with god or at certain cervices concerning attempting to bring the presence of the holy spirit into a room." Once while I was hitchhiking to bible college class, my instructor pulled his car over and offered me a ride. When I entered the car it was my impression that he had been praying because I felt like God was there with us. My instructor had been preparing his message from the book of James about how we can "Count it all Joy," and consider trials as the chief way that endurance is worked into us. It was an anointed class that began early that morning for me during the ride to school.

Another time, the Holy Spirit fell when me and my best friend stumbled onto a Scripture promising that "if any two of you agree as touching, it shall be given." We had immediately grasped what our Father in Heaven was saying, that the keys to the kingdom were in our hands and the only question that occurred to us at that moment was, "What can we ask? What prayer is worthy of that kind of trust?" Our little Christian lawyer minds went to work on that and eventually we thought we'd be able to agree on this one prayer: "That God make us to be as holy as we can be on this earth before we die,"

You see, we didn't want any "pie in the sky" blessing. As we agreed and asked the Holy Spirit fell upon both of us and we were immediately caught up to heaven in glory. I also wanted to mention that there was no speaking in tongues by either of us. That came later and my friend considers what happened to us that day as the time he was initially "baptized in the Holy Spirit." There was a feeling of timelessness that accompanied the Holy Spirit who was with us. I remember looking at my friend to see if the same thing was happening to him as was happening to me and yep, he was looking at me for confirmation also. So, the question about "why does it only happen at "faith healings"? is a misnomer. What I think about as the infilling of the Holy Spirit doesn't happen only at church. It happens when two or more come together before the Lord in truth (well, in my observation anyway). I'm not trying to say that such things can't happen when somebody is alone though, not talking "dogma" here at all.

Sometimes I too wonder about the "why" of these things and there have been periods of my life, long periods of time, that are like a desert - dry and parched. That's all part of the Christian Way (to me) and I take solace in the fact that similar things happened to the various people of the Old Testament to help me understand things. That's all that we're really trying to do here, trying to understand the Lord is a good thing and I do very much appreciate being allowed to speak of the best things seen in my lifetime here.


~Sparrow

 

[Chris]

Another time, the Holy Spirit fell when me and my best friend stumbled onto a Scripture promising that "if any two of you agree as touching, it shall be given." We had immediately grasped what our Father in Heaven was saying, that the keys to the kingdom were in our hands and the only question that occurred to us at that moment was, "What can we ask? What prayer is worthy of that kind of trust?" Our little Christian lawyer minds went to work on that and eventually we thought we'd be able to agree on this one prayer: "That God make us to be as holy as we can be on this earth before we die,"

You see, we didn't want any "pie in the sky" blessing. As we agreed and asked the Holy Spirit fell upon both of us and we were immediately caught up to heaven in glory. I also wanted to mention that there was no speaking in tongues by either of us. That came later and my friend considers what happened to us that day as the time he was initially "baptized in the Holy Spirit." There was a feeling of timelessness that accompanied the Holy Spirit who was with us. I remember looking at my friend to see if the same thing was happening to him as was happening to me and yep, he was looking at me for confirmation also. So, the question about "why does it only happen at "faith healings"? is a misnomer. What I think about as the infilling of the Holy Spirit doesn't happen only at church. It happens when two or more come together before the Lord in truth (well, in my observation anyway). I'm not trying to say that such things can't happen when somebody is alone though, not talking "dogma" here at all.

~Sparrow

Maybe this is the crucial part of this. If you can have the holy spirit come on you by yourself through prayer, and 2 even more so as you said, what can a few hundred people do together in prayer to attract a visit by the holy spirit? Maybe this is why it can be so intense.

 

[Igor]

Well, as they say, the Lord works in mysterious ways!

A pastor friend of mine just invited me to help out with a special outreach service they are having through his church. I looked up the guest speaker and saw pictures of him "healing" people in other services, laying on hands, etc. It's been at least 20 years since the last of the very few of these services that I attended, so I guess God is inviting me to take a firsthand look at this in today's world. Since I'm there to work with the pastor, it should give me a good look at the "insides" of how this is all put together and "orchestrated". I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Alabaster]

God is the orchestrator.