Why do you take the risk of eating murdered animals?

[Hej73]

This should be an easy choice. Risk vs reward. Super easy.

 

[WIP]

Here's something that came to my mind. Why is eating meat considered by some to incorporate murder while eating fruits and vegetables is not? Fruit and vegetables are living things too and must die in order to become our food.

 

[Hej73]

Here's something that came to my mind. Why is eating meat considered by some to incorporate murder while eating fruits and vegetables is not? Fruit and vegetables are living things too and must die in order to become our food.

Perhaps you are right. My contact (Love or Holy Spirit i suppose) did not tell me to stop eating fruits and veggies though. But have been recommended to do fasting.

 

[WIP]

Perhaps you are right. My contact (Love or Holy Spirit i suppose) did not tell me to stop eating fruits and veggies though. But have been recommended to do fasting.

Fasting is Biblical. There are many references to fasting in Scripture. Honestly though, it is something I do not do, at least not from food anyway. I perhaps do fast or restrict myself from certain indulgences but I don't know if that would be similar or not.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Perhaps meat eaters will not be punished because they are so brainwashed.
Perhaps evil forces wanted to destroy you spiritually and decided to convince you meat is not murder.

Why are you risking everything for meat when there are so many alternatives? To me that is insane.

Chuckle!! Because Eating LIVE animals, is MUCH MORE RISKY. They're very likely to become irritated, and turn on you!!!!
BUT HEY!!! I LOVE Animals. Some of 'em are delicious!!!

 

[WIP]

Here's a reference from Scripture that I think are applicable.

And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.
Genesis 9:1-3 ESV

Later on, in Leviticus 11, God did add some restrictions for the Israelites but He didn't exclude meat completely.

 

[Serving Zion]

Here's something that came to my mind. Why is eating meat considered by some to incorporate murder while eating fruits and vegetables is not?

I think it is mostly because of the human's natural ability to empathise with the screams and blood of animals more than the expressions of a plant. In addition to that, there is some extra moral value in acknowledging the brain (central nervous system) as the throne of sentience, which means that it is easy to see how animals, who have a brain, can also have a sense of awareness while it is not so easy to think of plants as having a sense of self because they don't have a brain. This is best demonstrated by the fact that if you take a twig from a tree and plant it in soil it then becomes two trees - whereas you can't do that with animals because their sense of self resides in the brain.

Fruit and vegetables are living things too and must die in order to become our food.

Not necessarily: for instance, fruit typically does not die in order to become our food, but rather it is a parcel for the seed, of which we eat the parcel and, by nature, propagate the seed. Therefore fruit is an investment of the tree in order to show that its seed is prizeworthy and in that way the human is convinced to treasure the seed and to cultivate it. So, fruit is given to us by the tree. But on the other hand, the vegetation of a plant is primarily for the purpose of feeding itself from the sun's energy through photosynthesis. Therefore to take from the vegetation is to take from the plant. That doesn't necessarily result in death to the plant, and it isn't necessarily bad for the plant either because the taking of foliage can stimulate new growth and new growth is usually more resistant to disease.

There actually is a type of vegetarianism that recognises the moral impact on plants, and does not eat root vegetables. The Jain philosophy, for example, incorporates those rules, but it does so for Ayurvedic principles - which I haven't studied to understand whether it is truly rooted in morality or just legalism.

Here's a reference from Scripture that I think are applicable.

And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.
Genesis 9:1-3 ESV

I asked a question about that in post #18:

Do you understand why it was not given before the flood?

Perhaps you'd like to pick up on it along with Randy.

 

[WIP]

I asked a question about that in post #18:
Perhaps you'd like to pick up on it along with @Randy.

I honestly can't say that I know the answer to that question but does it really matter? God gave the command and I would hope that is enough.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

That's the sacrificial mentality again: to take the life of the innocent because it is the only way to sustain the life of the one who is perishing. There's ample ways to nourish the body without exploiting animals though, especially in this era of science and manufacturing.

What do you mean exactly by "sacrifice mentality"?

I can see where people say that it's animal abuse and whatnot to kill and eat animals and I think it's mostly because the images they have of this are commercialized farming where they have hundreds of chickens in one area with little to no sunlight so that they get bigger, sometimes pumped with medications, dying all over the place, and are often sick then sent in a large shipment to slaughter, which has a lot of commercialized equipment to handle it that doesn't always work properly resulting in further suffering to the animal. I do not agree with these practices.

I do believe there is such a way as to treat an animal with dignity, respect, and care and still be able to kill it and eat it.

There is a big difference between commercial farming on a big scale to meet demand and the local rancher that raises that animal, gives it an extra large pasture to roam and freely graze, take care of the animal if they become ill, and then when it comes time to slaughter them for food.

Commercialized farming is the enemy here, not killing animals in general.

There are "meat substitutes," out there, sure. However, many of these are lab foods, extremely high in estrogens, and so processed that it isn't even food anymore. I'm not going to trust some "meat" grown in a lab. I'm not going to trust peanut butter to give me the same nutrition that ground beef does - it just doesn't work that way.

Not all ways of slaughtering animals are "exploitation," and even so - I'm not sure if that's even the word I would use for even commercialized farming - negligence in raising and caring for the animal is the issue...and feeding people sick animals is an issue.

If I want to raise my own chickens or raise my own cows, goats, or sheep for food and take great care of them the entire time - what's the problem?

 

[Serving Zion]

but does it really matter

Yes it does. Blood is being spilled and the life is in the blood. That was not permitted to happen before the flood, so it's actually very important to ask why it came about.

God gave the command and I would hope that is enough.

It wasn't a command though, it was a blessing. There's no obligation attached to it as there is with a command. In this case, He has said "into your hands they are given" and "the fear and dread of you will be upon all living creatures", but they weren't commanded to eat animals.

 

[Tessa]

I try to eat as little meat as possible. They are innocent and have had to suffer because of human's sin. It is not a sin to eat meat and we have been warned not to judge people by what they eat.
I mainly eat vegetables, fish and bread (and chocolate )
I have always wondered why burnt flesh of animals was a sweet aroma to God in sacrifices until today. I remembered how much I love the smell of roast lamb or bacon. I find lamb and chicken hard to resist.
I don't think the plant world feel pain.
If we stopped eating risky food we would have nothing to eat nowadays. Just eat in faith.

 

[Serving Zion]

What do you mean exactly by "sacrifice mentality"?

It's just as I said: to take the life of the innocent because it is the only way to sustain the life of the one who is perishing.

I do believe there is such a way as to treat an animal with dignity, respect, and care and still be able to kill it and eat it.

I think we have very different understanding of what dignity, respect and care mean. When your loved one dies, what do you do to show dignity, care and respect for him?

Commercialized farming is the enemy here, not killing animals in general.

I do not agree with that, but it's your own values that you are describing. I will agree with you that commercialised farming does cause more misery than necessary.

There are "meat substitutes," out there, sure. However, many of these are lab foods, extremely high in estrogens, and so processed that it isn't even food anymore. I'm not going to trust some "meat" grown in a lab.

I agree too, because I have had digestive issues etc from having gone overboard on over-processed vegan meat substitutes. Therefore it is a rare treat for me now and I stick to wholesome fresh vegetables and fruit.

I'm not going to trust peanut butter to give me the same nutrition that ground beef does - it just doesn't work that way.

That's right, but it's also important to recognise that you don't need beef to meet your nutritional needs. You only need a balanced diet and a healthy digestive system.

Not all ways of slaughtering animals are "exploitation," and even so - I'm not sure if that's even the word I would use for even commercialized farming - negligence in raising and caring for the animal is the issue...and feeding people sick animals is an issue.

The activity of viewing animals as an exploitable resource is, by definition, exploitation. Otherwise you would view them as companions or pests etc.

If I want to raise my own chickens or raise my own cows, goats, or sheep for food and take great care of them the entire time - what's the problem?

It is they that is best to answer that question. You should ask them!

 

[Serving Zion]

I have always wondered why burnt flesh of animals was a sweet aroma to God in sacrifices until today. I remembered how much I love the smell of roast lamb or bacon. I find lamb and chicken hard to resist.

I think it's just a matter of opinion, an "acquired taste". I don't like the smell of searing meat but rather I hate it. I think it is mostly to do with the chemicals that make it smell toxic, but there is some proportion of psychological objection involved. That's why I can't eat beyond burgers - they literally do taste like meat and it's just foul to me.

 

[WIP]

It wasn't a command though, it was a blessing. There's no obligation attached to it as there is with a command. In this case, He has said "into your hands they are given" and "the fear and dread of you will be upon all living creatures", but they weren't commanded to eat animals.

I didn't mean that God commanded that we eat meat. What I meant was that it was God's command that meat and plants are for food.

 

[WIP]

I do not agree with that, but it's your own values that you are describing. I will agree with you that commercialised farming does cause more misery than necessary.

In what way?

 

[WIP]

I try to eat as little meat as possible. They are innocent and have had to suffer because of human's sin. It is not a sin to eat meat and we have been warned not to judge people by what they eat.
I mainly eat vegetables, fish and bread (and chocolate )
I have always wondered why burnt flesh of animals was a sweet aroma to God in sacrifices until today. I remembered how much I love the smell of roast lamb or bacon. I find lamb and chicken hard to resist.
I don't think the plant world feel pain.
If we stopped eating risky food we would have nothing to eat nowadays. Just eat in faith.

Why do you separate fish into a different category from red meat in this regard?

When it comes to plants, I was watching a scientific documentary where they described how plants do have a reaction to being cut. For example, when trees are cut there is a chemical reaction that takes place. I don't recall much about it but pain is a chemical reaction in our bodies.

 

[WIP]

Yes it does. Blood is being spilled and the life is in the blood. That was not permitted to happen before the flood, so it's actually very important to ask why it came about.

I'm not so sure it was only after the flood. Able kept sheep. For what purpose? We do know that he slaughtered one of the first born of his flock to be a sacrificial offering to God.

Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.
Genesis 4:1-5 NKJV

 

[JLB]

I think it's just a matter of opinion, an "acquired taste". I don't like the smell of searing meat but rather I hate it. I think it is mostly to do with the chemicals that make it smell toxic, but there is some proportion of psychological objection involved. That's why I can't eat beyond burgers - they literally do taste like meat and it's just foul to me.

The smell of a good steak from cattle that you raised over mesquite coals is certainly not foul.


The Lord Himself enjoyed it, as he ate in the company of Abraham.


So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.” And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it. So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. Genesis 18:6-8




Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, Genesis 4:4


By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
Hebrews 11:4


“By faith” means God told him to do it, and he obeyed.


The scriptures call it an excellent sacrifice.






JLB

 

[Tessa]

What do you mean exactly by "sacrifice mentality"?

I can see where people say that it's animal abuse and whatnot to kill and eat animals and I think it's mostly because the images they have of this are commercialized farming where they have hundreds of chickens in one area with little to no sunlight so that they get bigger, sometimes pumped with medications, dying all over the place, and are often sick then sent in a large shipment to slaughter, which has a lot of commercialized equipment to handle it that doesn't always work properly resulting in further suffering to the animal. I do not agree with these practices.

I do believe there is such a way as to treat an animal with dignity, respect, and care and still be able to kill it and eat it.

There is a big difference between commercial farming on a big scale to meet demand and the local rancher that raises that animal, gives it an extra large pasture to roam and freely graze, take care of the animal if they become ill, and then when it comes time to slaughter them for food.

Commercialized farming is the enemy here, not killing animals in general.

There are "meat substitutes," out there, sure. However, many of these are lab foods, extremely high in estrogens, and so processed that it isn't even food anymore. I'm not going to trust some "meat" grown in a lab. I'm not going to trust peanut butter to give me the same nutrition that ground beef does - it just doesn't work that way.

Not all ways of slaughtering animals are "exploitation," and even so - I'm not sure if that's even the word I would use for even commercialized farming - negligence in raising and caring for the animal is the issue...and feeding people sick animals is an issue.

If I want to raise my own chickens or raise my own cows, goats, or sheep for food and take great care of them the entire time - what's the problem?

Hi Luminous_Rose
My problem with raising the animals myself would be that I would have grown too attached to have them slaughtered let alone eat them. I would them too much to do it. I know it's being a softy,

 

[Tessa]

Why do you separate fish into a different category from red meat in this regard?

When it comes to plants, I was watching a scientific documentary where they described how plants do have a reaction to being cut. For example, when trees are cut there is a chemical reaction that takes place. I don't recall much about it but pain is a chemical reaction in our bodies.

WIP you have just taken all my food off me what am I going to eat mow?
Last night i googled and asked if fisn felt pain. I was horrified to learn they do. Jelly fish don't but I don't fancy eating them. There is nothing left to eat.