All the same coming that destroys the antichrist and raptures the church.
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Why I can't believe in rapture theory
- Thread starter joseph lentz
- Start date
All the same coming that destroys the antichrist and raptures the church.
NOT raptures the church those left alive are caught up to meet the Lord as they need new bodies too. Unless that is what you mean by rapture. Its the resurrection of the saints on this earth. "he will rule the nations with an iron scepter" Regardless its not a pre tribulation pull out of anyone but the resurrection on the last day.
Randy
Amen.
There is one coming or appearing of the Lord, that results in the resurrection of the saints, together with the rapture.
This same coming also results in the destruction and removal of the wicked, which includes the antichrist.
His Coming results in:
- The resurrection of the dead in Christ
- The Rapture
- The destruction of the false christ; [antichrist]
Obviously this takes place on the last Day, not 7 years before the last Day.
- If the antichrist was destroyed before the tribulation, there would be no tribulation.
- If everyone saw the True Christ coming before the tribulation, who would follow the false christ?
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
That do make sense, doesn't it? And looking back into the OT we see God's pattern of dealing with man. If this then that. God surely likes testing his people. It is a sort of purification process for them. We don't like being tested to those extremes, but there's little we can do about it.
yes, Jesus says behold I come, but does not say when, Matthew 24:36,37.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
He will come on the last Day, and raise us up.
- And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40
- He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. John 12:48
JLB
JLB, yes Jesus does come on the last day as we can clearly read in John 6:40 and scripture is very clear from the beginning to the end of all things that will occur on the last day, but something we need to remember is man can not measure the length of time within the last day.
Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.
After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.
We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.
After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.
We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
So if we stick to what 1Thessalonians says, we discover these things:
- The resurrection comes just before the rapture.
- The resurrection and rapture is one event, whereby all His people will be gathered together unto Him.
- Then when all His people are safely with Him in the air above the earth, then the destruction of the wicked will take place, which includes the false messiah (antichrist).
JLB
AT That time as the context is the battle about to take place as that beast is not destroyed by human power but overthrown by Jesus and His armies that follow Him.
REV 16:14 gathered for the great battle of God
Rev 16:15 Now Jesus warns of His coming NIV "Look I come like a thief!"
Scripture supports this coming at that time 2thess2:8 daniel 12:1(Jesus stated HE would send out His angels)
Brother, the resurrection and rapture are one event.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
- caught up together with them
The Church shall all be caught up together in the air from all over the whole earth to be with Him as He returns from heaven to earth to remove the wicked and take His place on His throne in Jerusalem as King over the whole earth.
Again, these three things happen at His coming:
- Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
- Rapture of those who are alive.
- Destruction of the wicked.
JLB
does not happen a lot around here 
Rev 16:13-16, says nothing of Jesus returning before the seventh vial is poured out. After the seventh vial is poured out the great harlot is described as modern day Babylon and Gods judgement comes against the harlot and those people who have fallen to this Babylonian empire bewails her destruction and then Jesus returns and gathers His own to Him and destroys the beast and the false prophet casting them into the lake of fire.
The three unclean spirits are spirits of demons that proceed out of the mouth of Satan who gives power and authority to his unholy trinity that is Satan, the beast and the false prophet who speaks lies and teaches a twisted word of God that deceives the nations. These three spirits of demons send out wondrous signs to the political leaders (kings) of the earth and throughout all the nations as the signs are that of the monumental greatness of this modern day tower of Babel with its seat in Jerusalem as they make a name for themselves setting themselves above all that is God's, Genesis 11:1-9; Isaiah 14:12-14.
It was through vanity and pride that the tower of Babel was being built and as God made an end to that so will He also make an end to this Luciferians New World Order as the whole world is gathered to the great battle of God almighty as Satan gathers them to a place called Armageddon. Jesus said we need to keep watch as He will come as a thief in the night to those who have no relationship with Him. We will study more about this battle in Chapter 19, but first let’s understand what Armageddon means.
Armageddon is not a literal place you can locate on a map, but is symbolic of many areas north of Israel where the great battles of the Old Testament were fought. Armageddon derives from the Hebrew word Har-mageddon which means the Hill of Megiddo which is found in the Carmel mountains.
Joel calls this the valley of decision as multitudes of people are gathered there, Joel 3:14. This is why Jesus says to be watchful as He will come as a thief in the night to those who have no Spiritual relationship with Him. There are an estimated seven billion people living in the world today with only a small percentage of them being truly Spiritually born-again so this gathering can not take place in one specific area found in the Carmel mountains as this gathering is that of one like mind.
I think the battle is not with the whole world but the armies of the beast and satan and false prophet. Zech 14 speaks of the mount of olives being split in two pieces to make a ways of escape from the surrounding armies. Possibly from the earth quake noted in rev 11 as its the same timing and city. you named a location from what HILL or tell of megiddo is found yet Armageddon is not a literal place? Well you found a place that derives from that name.
The seventh bowl judgement follows the sixth bowl judgment the aftermath not the timing of the lords return. Though I would think once the armies are in place the battle starts so not much time would be between the two judgments.
I can agree with that. I believe the armies of the beast, Satan and the false prophet are the kings (political leaders) that are gathered for battle. They are separate from the remnant that follows after them, Rev 19:21, and have taken the mark of the beast sealing their fate. They will be destroyed when Jesus returns and we are caught up to meet Him in the air then Jesus plants His feet on the Mt. Of Olives to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. I see everything happening very quickly upon His return.
I currently understand events unfolding as follows:
Daniels 70th Week (7 years)
(1) Start of 70th Week - Agreement with many for 1 week (start of tribulation/sorrows)
(2) 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse roll out in first half (WW3) - plus Jewish temple rebuilt
(3) Mid point of Week (approx 3.5 years in) - Anti-Christ Dies and comes back to Life - Abomination of Desolation - Mark of Beast Mandated. Sacrifises and Offerings in New Temple cease.
(4) "Great Tribulation" - Mark of Beast - Believers severely persecuted & killed
(5) 75 days after Abomination of Desolation
(7) Jesus returns with saints to overthrow the Beast & armies - Armageddon
(8) End of Daniels 70th Week. 1000 year reign of Christ begins.
That's my current understanding on how things will unfold. With America being Babylon, the whore riding the Beast.
.
Daniels 70th Week (7 years)
(1) Start of 70th Week - Agreement with many for 1 week (start of tribulation/sorrows)
(2) 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse roll out in first half (WW3) - plus Jewish temple rebuilt
(3) Mid point of Week (approx 3.5 years in) - Anti-Christ Dies and comes back to Life - Abomination of Desolation - Mark of Beast Mandated. Sacrifises and Offerings in New Temple cease.
(4) "Great Tribulation" - Mark of Beast - Believers severely persecuted & killed
(5) 75 days after Abomination of Desolation
- Day of the Lord
- Sun & Moon Darkened, Sky recedes like a scroll, Stars fall
- 6th Seal in book of Revelation
- Jesus comes in the clouds in Great Glory
- Mark of Beast persecution cut short - those days shortened for the sake of the elect
- Resurrection of the Dead & Rapture (believers removed from earth - except 2 witnesses and 144,000 Old testament saints).
- Rev 7:9- Rapture multitude appearing in heaven.
- Gods Wrath starts this day
(6) Remaining 2nd half of Daniels Week - Gods Wrath - Trumpets, Vial judgements, then towards the end - Babylon Judged- Sun & Moon Darkened, Sky recedes like a scroll, Stars fall
- 6th Seal in book of Revelation
- Jesus comes in the clouds in Great Glory
- Mark of Beast persecution cut short - those days shortened for the sake of the elect
- Resurrection of the Dead & Rapture (believers removed from earth - except 2 witnesses and 144,000 Old testament saints).
- Rev 7:9- Rapture multitude appearing in heaven.
- Gods Wrath starts this day
(7) Jesus returns with saints to overthrow the Beast & armies - Armageddon
(8) End of Daniels 70th Week. 1000 year reign of Christ begins.
That's my current understanding on how things will unfold. With America being Babylon, the whore riding the Beast.
.
Last edited:
n2thelight
Member
deleted
Hi Brett,
Daniel's 70th week is certainly 7 years, however it is in the middle of the week, that the tribulation begins.
The AOD being the trigger.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:27
- But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21
- when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)... For then there will be great tribulation,
- The AOD takes place in the middle of the week, and it is then there will be great tribulation.
JLB