I can’t resist. You quote Martin Luther from the middle ages to establish the claim that 21st century people hate the Jews. I mean, that is a source for sure….a man who lived over 1500 years ago tells us how we think too….right!
The "specific sources" I cited was a reference to how Nero's persecution is doubtful. Brent Shaw and Richard Carrier. I hope it is obvious that Luther was important in Christianity's history. That said, nearly half of American Protestants don't have any idea who he was., lol.
We’ll Unfortunately for you I lived some decades in Germany and that’s not what the Germans say and they ought to know. After all, you whole premise rests on how the Jews FEEL.
That is, the Germans you spent time with.
And yet you insist the star is his symbol, a man you don’t believe existed.
All that matters is that medieval theologians attributed it to him.
Do you have evidence Caesar existed, outside of your friends’ group, that is?
You're going to ask me to prove that Caesar existed? You just dug your own grave.
- Caesar wrote works on the Gallic Wars and the Civil Wars - in which he was not just a witness but a participant.
- Caesar was documented by numerous historians shortly after his death, extensively, by sources without a theological bias, with great detail including anecdotes such as his physical appearance.
- He is also discussed by Cicero, Catullus, etc.
- We have reports from friends, enemies, and neutrals.
- Without Caesar, the Roman timeline after 59 B.C. turns nonsensical.
- Court cases, which are documented, that he prosecuted and defended
- We know all about his family, his sisters and who they married, and his extended family.
- Sculptures and likenesses - see the following bust of him, made in his own lifetime, which is unflattering; later busts added a laurel to hide his receding hairline:
He can be found on the denarius from 44 B.C. On the coin is written a proclamation declaring him perpetual dictator. Coins bearing his name and face are literally everywhere.
- What about Jesus? Not a one. Earliest Christian iconography simply ripped his likeness from the god Apollo.
Jesus' image has been changed to fit whatever earthly powers happen to be in place.
What about Alexander the Great? I'll prove his existence too, because some goofy people say we have more existence for Jesus than him:
- Alexander left a huge historical footprint and conquered a massive stretch of the ancient world. Jesus would not have travelled more than a hundred miles from his birthplace.
- Many cities are/were named after him (70!) and his generals and even his horse, he is also all over coins, and in ancient pictures.
- Without Alexander, a new explanation would have had to be fabricated for an era of human history, with some obvious political transformations.
- The reports of him come from friends, enemies, and neutrals, once again.
- Numerous credible historians: Herodotus, Xenophon, Manetho, Arrian, Pliny the Elder, Plutarch, Polybius. These names are given immense credibility in academic circles, especially Xenophon, Arrian, Pliny, and Polybius.
- Reliable evidence of a couple interesting facts: he was taught by Aristotle, and we know exactly who his wife was (a teenager he captured, freed, and wooed).
That said, you're better off arguing that Alexander never existed than that Caesar did not. But none of these facts are true for Jesus; he bears everything that smacks of mythology:
- No coins, no cities, towns, villages
- Actions alike to those attributed to mythological figures in Greek, Egyptian mythologies and others including Middle Eastern
- Regularly identified with impossible supernatural powers (if you accuse me of "theological bias", we regularly dismiss the miraculous claims made of other mythical figures; I'm just urging consistency)
- Nearly every report on his life, including the only ones with a shred of credibility at all (the 4 gospels) come from those with a vested interest in making people believe he was a god
- Barely any extrabiblical sources - a forgery from Josephus, and some bits from Tacitus and possibly Suetonius that only indicate that some people calling themselves Christians believed a man named Jesus existed; hardly an earth-shattering conclusion.
- Suetonius only says, "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." But this is about Claudius' reign, 41-54 A.D. So it can't have been Jesus. "Chrestus" was a common name, it meant "useful."
- Jesus had no clear political impact; in 40 A.D. the situation was as it would be if he never existed
EDIT: The only thing apologists can cite to prove Jesus existed is the plethora of manuscripts. Of course, most of them are very late, and there are no more than a few scraps of Mark from before the third century at least. But multiple copies of any four documents (three clearly dependent on one of them and on each other) do not add to our knowledge of him. As cited, there is much evidence outside of documents for these two figures, Caesar and Alexander, which is what we would expect.
Imagine a wandering preacher arriving in your town, doing all sorts of miracles, casting out demons and raising the dead. He gets executed by the state for rebellion, but rises from the dead and ascends into heaven. You would not need the accounts of the gospels, earliest of which written just before or just after A.D. 70 (35 years after Jesus' death, at the very earliest) since virtually all first-century historians would write about him in great detail. We'd also find letters written by eyewitnesses, or at least those who knew eyewitnesses, which would then be carefully preserved. We'd find early likenesses of him, as well.
Who could have written about Jesus? Jewish historians: Nicolaus of Damascus, Philo of Alexandria, Justus of Tiberias, and Flavius Josephus. Josephus' section, the Testimonium Flavianum, is in fact an early Christian forgery, which probably indicates that Christians were ashamed of the lack of evidence for Jesus' existence. We also find in Josephus "James, the brother of Jesus", but every scholar agrees that the "brother of Jesus" is a gloss.
Pagan historians? Marcus Velleius Paterculus, Marcus Servilius Nonianus, Pamphila of Epidaurus, Aufidius Bassus, Pliny the Elder, Cluvius, Rufus, and Seneca the Younger. Yet we find nothing of him there. As stated, Tacitus and Suetonius only demonstrate that some Christians believed a man named Jesus existed. In fact, these two historians did not believe he existed, so...
Apologies for the long post, but this is important.
EDIT 2: Here's a helpful article (written by a B.A. in History and Classical Studies):
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2...existence-of-alexander-the-great-quite-a-lot/
Here is also a debate between Richard Carrier and Bart Ehrman on Jesus' existence:
