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why modern premillenialism fails

indeed, so in this earth there really be animals no , no plants. why do you need some twelve fruited plant with 12 leaves on it to eat and be healed?

@hitch this is a symbol of isreal and her being used by god by the apostles to save the nations. but they dont get that.

but not all agree. felix the whole point of this thread is too show that the idea of some limited grace with the jews being in the ot and the christians there with them teaching some weird version of repent isnt really that biblical. i will admit that of some of these things i dont know, but a body of flesh is taught in most churches as jesus had flesh are we to be clothed better then GOD?
 
jasoncran and Hitch, As I already mentioned, I want ALL scriptures verses to agree. If even one doesn't agree, then we need to reject that and not stick on to it.
 
jasoncran and Hitch, As I already mentioned, I want ALL scriptures verses to agree. If even one doesn't agree, then we need to reject that and not stick on to it.
you will die long before that ever happens. even the apostles didnt know! paul makes that clear in the chapter 14. we see in a mirror darkly..

greater men in christ then us all have tried to know it all and said its not all told.

its called being HONEST.
 
a body of flesh is taught in most churches as jesus had flesh are we to be clothed better then GOD?

There is a difference between the flesh of Christ and our flesh.

His Flesh is nothing but "Word of God which became flesh". But our flesh is of dust which inherits the curse "dust you are, dust shall you become - a curse to Adam".
His Flesh is incorruptible but our flesh is corruptible.

We are not to be clothed better than Him but,
(1John 3:2) Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
 
There is a difference between the flesh of Christ and our flesh.

His Flesh is nothing but "Word of God which became flesh". But our flesh is of dust which inherits the curse "dust you are, dust shall you become - a curse to Adam".
His Flesh is incorruptible but our flesh is corruptible.

We are not to be clothed better than Him but,
(1John 3:2) Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

his flesh after the fall! god called adam and eve good.

remember that.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

when were adam and eve made?

and if we are raised like him and he had flesh so do we, he is coming back in a bodily form to jugde.

acts 1

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

what did he look like when he left?
 
his flesh after the fall! god called adam and eve good.

remember that.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
when were adam and eve made?

No. Genesis 1 was the overview of creation. Then genesis 2 and 3 expands the story of creation of man until Genesis 4 and Genesis 5 gives the genealogy of man from creation.
 
No. Genesis 1 was the overview of creation. Then genesis 2 and 3 expands the story of creation of man until Genesis 4 and Genesis 5 gives the genealogy of man from creation.


it doesnt deny what i said at all. he in the first chapter called adam and eve good ere the fall.if sin was on day 6 then adam was made a sinful creature!
 
it doesnt deny what i said at all. he in the first chapter called adam and eve good ere the fall.if sin was on day 6 then adam was made a sinful creature!

No. Sin was not on the 6th day.

(Gen 3:8) And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Cool of which day? The same day they were created? No!

Also, you must note that Gen 2:19 contradicts with the 5th day creation in Gen 1. I am not encouraging any contradictions in Scripture but just telling you that Genesis 2 while expanding the events are but not necessarily in sequential order.
 
No. Sin was not on the 6th day.

(Gen 3:8) And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Cool of which day? The same day they were created? No!

Also, you must note that Gen 2:19 contradicts with the 5th day creation in Gen 1. I am not encouraging any contradictions in Scripture but just telling you that Genesis 2 while expanding the events are but not necessarily in sequential order.


it doesnt contradict its called block logic, hebrews do this with a ton of things. its they way do tell their stories,they elaborated on what happened. and well its after day 6 then and when did he rest the sevent when he rested he said it was good.


put im not going to play with this at all, you get and answer the problem and dont care to with your agenda. this is a rabbit trail.
 
Had a few Bible studies in Genesis under a Rabi turned Baptist... He believed the sin to be almost immediate. From his Jewish teachings.
 
it doesnt contradict its called block logic, hebrews do this with a ton of things. its they way do tell their stories,they elaborated on what happened. and well its after day 6 then and when did he rest the sevent when he rested he said it was good.


put im not going to play with this at all, you get and answer the problem and dont care to with your agenda. this is a rabbit trail.

You are ignoring what I am trying to say:

(Gen 1:31) Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed [it was] very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Neither the fall nor the fall of Satan happen on the 6th or the 7th day because, it was good on the 6th day and God blessed the 7th day.
It happened only after the 7th day.
 
You are frequently deviating from the point we are discussing:

(Rev 20:3) and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

If Amillennialism, when did this happen?

If Christ is ruling this world, why is sin still abundant?

(John 14:30) "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

Hi felix, I was a dispensationilist for 20 years, a literal 1000 year millenial reign is falsely established in Rev 20:4-6, this is the only biblical that is falsely used.

Dispensationalism, Darby, Scofield, Etc has multiple returns of Jesus Christ, they wrongly divide truth, by trying to interpret the book of Revelation in Chronological order, when in reality its repeated teachings of same events!

We must first understand that Jesus Christ taught the resurrection of believers was to be on the "Last Day", not 7 years before a false pretribulation rapture, or at the end of a false millenial kingdom.

John 6:40 KJV
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


We will start with the false pretribulation rapture, their key verses are 1 Cor 15:52 and theynever reveal verse 54, that fully explains that the event when the church shall be changed from mortal to immortal, this will take place at the "Last Trumph"
", this is the "Last Day" of history, at the Last and Final judgement Rev 20:14.when death is swallowed up in victory", you can examine the "Last Trumph" voice of the angel, Rev 10:6-7 and Rev 11:15, it is the end when the mystery of God shall be finished, just giving ya a little bit, the chains of dispensational premillenalism are heavy!

1 Cor 15:52-54 KJV
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We will now examine Rev 20 Thousand years, as not being literal, this chapter is seen in the spiritual realm, those in it are spiritual bodies that have'nt been glorified yet, Jesus Christ used the term 1000 years as representing a long period of time, "NOT LITERAL" as 2 pet 3:8 explains a day is a thousand years in the spiritual, Psalm 50:10 states the Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills, "NOT LITERAL"!

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Felix the thousand year reign is with christ now and will be finished at the first resurrection on the "Last Day" you have two groups spoken of in Rev 20:4-6, those that came out of the tribulation, and the rest of the dead believers, that will live again at the first resurrection to life at the last day, there will be two resurrections on the last day, first resurrection to life, second resurrection unto death/damnation John 5:28-29 and Daniel 12:1-2 this will take place at the Lords second coming "Immediately after the tribulation" as seen in Matthew 24:29-31, this last day will see the entire universe and world disolved by the Lords firey Judgement, 2 Peter 3:10-12, every mans work will be tried by this firey Judgement, 1 Cor 3:13, then the new heavens, earth, and New Jerusalem will be revealed for eternity Rev 21:1-3!

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The resurrection on the "Last Day" second coming of Jesus Christ, Daniel 12:1-2 also explains this to be after the tribulation, and final judgement, those that shall be found in the book of life, "FINAL JUDGEMENT"!

John 5:28-29 KJV

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Daniel 12:1-2 KJV
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The Lord will return in Firey Judgement, disolving the heavens and earth by fire.

2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
King James Version (KJV)


7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Every mans work will be judged by this fire, the belivers will pass through it to New Jerusalem, the wicked will remain in it, the lake of fire!

1 Corinthians 3:13 KJV
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: , because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Felix there will be no future millenial kingdom for a 1000 years, the Lord Jesus Christ will return at his second coming, bringing firey judgement, then will reveal his eternal kingdom!

Revelation 21:1-3 KJV
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Appearance, Judgement, Eternal Kingdom!

2 Timothy 4:1 KJV
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Jesus Christ Is The Lord!

Truth7t7
 
Truth7t7, I think you misunderstood me.

  • I believe in post-tribulation rapture.
  • I believe that revelation sometimes speaks about same events already mentioned earlier for better clarity or expanding the events.
  • I believe that most symbols in revelation are spiritual in nature and must not be taken literally.

My problem is not with 1000 years. But if it is happening now, is Satan bound with chains in bottomless pit? No! I can see Satan sitting happy in my country's parliament and enacting every abominable law against God, making the country "Sodom and Gomorrah 2".
 
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