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why modern premillenialism fails

felix read what the bible says on the new heavens and earth and those are used by those links that say in the new heaveans and earth so and so will be.

I didn't get properly but I will reply based on what I understood.

Scripture does speak about new heavens and earth in two places - Isa 65:17 and Rev 21:1. However, only the prophecy in revelation will be fulfilled. This is because, as in Heb 8:6, we now have a better covenant with better promises. When "better" is used, it replaces the "older". The old covenant is one but people often overlook the "promises" in old covenant. One such is new heavens and earth promise. Let me explain why: There are many differences in new heavens in when compared between Isa 65:17 and Rev 21:1. e.g, death still exists by old age in Isa 65:17 (as described in 65:20) but there is no death in Rev 21:4. So, the better promises of Rev 21:1 replaces the older promises of Isa 65:17.

that means something. it can be a limited curse removal(my favorite) as well hmm somehow our new bodies will need food.

There is no curse in new heavens and earth. There is no pain, suffering or death either. We don't need any food for us to live for God will give us the fruit of tree of life and we will live with Him forever. - Not eating forever to live.

i wonder what death and resurrection will occur in the millenium as it wont be able to be taught from our bible. that occured. so what will be preached to the lost. all bets on that take a wierd exegital departure.

Revelation 20 explains it clearly in sequence.
 
Let me put this way...
(Matt 15:24) But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jesus Christ did NOT sent for Gentiles. However, through His death, the middle wall of separation is broken and we are citizens of commonwealth of Israel as in Eph 2:11-14 and now we are as one flock with one shepherd as in John 10:16. Scripture also says in Rom 9:24-26 that Gentiles were includes and grafted in as in Rom 11:17.

You must understand that the Olive tree was just grafted - not replaced. Scripture also explains who is a Jew: Rom 2:28-29. Also, Gal 3:28-29 clearly explains only the followers of Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise.

Now, Christians including Jews who believe in Christ and follow His commandments in every way are the actual Jews (Abraham's seed) or Israelites (heirs according to promise) through Him not the people who call themselves as Jews just because they are born into a Jewish family.

Now, according to scriptures, if you are expecting "Jacob's Trouble" only for people who are born in Jewish family, then you are terribly mistaken.
LOL Someday if you learn to trust Jesus and believe what he said you'll get it straight, until then keep making things up ,its fun to watch.

You dont really think you're the first to hide behind changing the subject and non sequiturs?
 
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LOL Someday if you learn to trust Jesus and believe what he said you'll get it straight, until then keep making things up ,its fun to watch.

You dont really think you're the first to hide behind changing the subject and non sequiturs?

You did not respond to what I referred in Scriptures.

Am I changing subjects? No. I want to make sure NONE in scriptures must contradict. I had clearly shown that scriptures contradict the theory you believe in and what Jesus said not does mean resurrection but rebirth which matches with scriptures.

As I previously stated, I can change my position only of all of scripture agree.
 
I didn't get properly but I will reply based on what I understood.

Scripture does speak about new heavens and earth in two places - Isa 65:17 and Rev 21:1. However, only the prophecy in revelation will be fulfilled. This is because, as in Heb 8:6, we now have a better covenant with better promises. When "better" is used, it replaces the "older". The old covenant is one but people often overlook the "promises" in old covenant. One such is new heavens and earth promise. Let me explain why: There are many differences in new heavens in when compared between Isa 65:17 and Rev 21:1. e.g, death still exists by old age in Isa 65:17 (as described in 65:20) but there is no death in Rev 21:4. So, the better promises of Rev 21:1 replaces the older promises of Isa 65:17.



There is no curse in new heavens and earth. There is no pain, suffering or death either. We don't need any food for us to live for God will give us the fruit of tree of life and we will live with Him forever. - Not eating forever to live.



Revelation 20 explains it clearly in sequence.

so when god said let the animals and man eat plants and then said it was good, he wasnt meaning that? he lied. theres No man gonna survive the wrath of god when it pours out. there wont be sin any more.


but in millenium theres death. and the death of the righteous. so that means you must have two ressurections. yet we are on the earth in a sinless perfect body with flesh must eat. jesus eat on this earth. if our ressurection is like that then we too shall eat. all that was before the fall will be once again. food such as plants wont be bad to eat.

who is a jew? that means you are a jew if you take that way, which isnt quite the bible meant by that, he was addressing that one was a hebrew to god when one had faith. that is clearly stated by moses. and also the act of faith by abraham.
 
lol, wow so in the new earth and new heavens there wont be a sun?or moon?
 
lol, wow so in the new earth and new heavens there wont be a sun?or moon?

Yes. there is no sun and moon. Why do you want sun and moon? why do you want to work? and why do you want to sleep? Working is actually a curse in Genesis for man.
 
Yes. there is no sun and moon. Why do you want sun and moon? why do you want to work? and why do you want to sleep? Working is actually a curse in Genesis for man.
why because god made it all called it good.! and that work was after the curse.

reconcile for me then what meant by this
isaiah 66
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
 
so when god said let the animals and man eat plants and then said it was good, he wasnt meaning that? he lied. theres No man gonna survive the wrath of god when it pours out. there wont be sin any more.


but in millenium theres death. and the death of the righteous. so that means you must have two ressurections. yet we are on the earth in a sinless perfect body with flesh must eat. jesus eat on this earth. if our ressurection is like that then we too shall eat. all that was before the fall will be once again. food such as plants wont be bad to eat.

Sorry, no flesh... in resurrection.

(Matt 22:30) "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

(1Cor 15:50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


who is a jew? that means you are a jew if you take that way, which isnt quite the bible meant by that, he was addressing that one was a hebrew to god when one had faith. that is clearly stated by moses. and also the act of faith by abraham.

I believe you understand what "obsolete means".

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

You can still hold on to what many jews still believe that old covenant is still valid but it's much worse in following it after the new covenant. Following old covenant is abomination as I mentioned in my blog at my signature.

EDIT: btw, I did not define who a Jew is, but scripture does in Rom 2:28-29 and Gal 3:28-29. Either you can ditch these verses to follow only Torah/Law or come into grace through Christ.
 
Sorry, no flesh... in resurrection.

(Matt 22:30) "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

(1Cor 15:50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.




I believe you understand what "obsolete means".

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

You can still hold on to what many jews still believe that old covenant is still valid but it's much worse in following it after the new covenant. Following old covenant is abomination as I mentioned in my blog at my signature.

EDIT: btw, I did not define who a Jew is, but scripture does in Rom 2:28-29 and Gal 3:28-29. Either you can ditch these verses to follow only Torah/Law or come into grace through Christ.


so paul didnt mean that then in this verse

1 Corinthians 15


1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

so when chrsit appeared what was he? a spirit or flesh?

he did take on human form and well show me the temple he reigns from and the very place it says it and then commit on the law like you just did , and NO CHRISTIANS ARENT JEWS.

that was to the jews in the roman audience that didnt know christ and thought the were specail because of seedline, paul told them that doesnt mean squat.
 
so when i say that the millenium has a temple it comes from the prophets and describes a vision of that temple from the prophets. and the old covenant is finished but not an abonamation if so then jesus made a mistake as he quoted the torah all the time, the love thy neighbor thing and also to love thy enemies in pauls day was only taught from the law of moses.

the bible wasnt put together till the 4th century and it was matthew as a book first. in ad 40. so the early church used the tanach to teach what sin was and to correct and an oral like tradition of the new concepts until penned.
 
why because god made it all called it good.! and that work was after the curse.

I don't understand what you are referring to? I can't find or remember where God said it is good after the curse.

reconcile for me then what meant by this
isaiah 66

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
What is her name? Israel, the grafted Olive tree (Rom 11:17)
Who is her seed? Christians (Gal 3:28-29)

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


There are parallel verses in NT. What about it?
 
I don't understand what you are referring to? I can't find or remember where God said it is good after the curse.



22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
What is her name? Israel, the grafted Olive tree (Rom 11:17)
Who is her seed? Christians (Gal 3:28-29)

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

There are parallel verses in NT. What about it?


it means the the feasts and all are fulfilled in christ, nothing more, when the jews used the moon it was for the feasts and the sun for the shabat. it means nor more old convenant imho.

The Sadducees
For an account of these see on Matthew 16:1.
Verse 24. Raise up seed unto his brother.
This law is mentioned Deuteronomy 25:5. The meaning of the expression is, that the children produced by this marriage should be reckoned in the genealogy of the deceased brother, and enjoy his estates. The word seed should be always translated children or posterity. There is a law precisely similar to this among the Hindoos.
Verse 25. Seven brethren
It is very likely that the Sadducees increased the number, merely to make the question the more difficult.
Verse 28. Whose wife shall she be of the seven?
The rabbins have said, That if a woman have two husbands in this world, she shall have the first only restored to her in the world to come. Sohar. Genes. fol. 24. The question put by these bad men is well suited to the mouth of a libertine. Those who live without God in the world have no other god than the world; and those who have not that happiness which comes from the enjoyment of God have no other pleasure than that which comes from the gratification of sensual appetites. The stream cannot rise higher than the spring: these men, and their younger brethren, atheists, deists, and libertines of all sorts, can form no idea of heaven as a place of blessedness, unless they can hope to find in it the gratification of their sensual desires. On this very ground Mohammed built his paradise.
Verse 29. Ye do err
Or, Ye are deceived-by your impure passions: not knowing the scriptures, which assert the resurrection:-nor the miraculous power of God (ÄηνδÃ…ναμινÄοÃ… θεοÃ…) by which it is to be effected. In Avoda Sara, fol. 18, Sanhedrin, fol. 90, it is said: "These are they which shall have no part in the world to come: Those who say, the Lord did not come from heaven; and those who say, the resurrection cannot be proved out of the law."
Their deception appeared in their supposing, that if there were a resurrection, men and women were to marry and be given in marriage as in this life; which our Lord shows is not the case: for men and women there shall be like the angels of God, immortal, and free from all human passions, and from those propensities which were to continue with them only during this present state of existence. There shall be no death; and consequently no need of marriage to maintain the population of the spiritual world.
Verse 31. Have ye not read
This quotation is taken from Exodus 3:6,16; and as the five books of Moses were the only part of Scripture which the Sadducees acknowledged as Divine, our Lord, by confuting them from those books, proved the second part of his assertion, "Ye are ignorant of those very scriptures which ye profess to hold sacred." Verse 32. I am the God of Abraham
Let it be observed, that Abraham was dead upwards of 300 years before these words were spoken to Moses: yet still God calls himself the God of Abraham, the dead, (that word being equal, in the sense of the Sadducees, to an eternal annihilation,) but of the living; it therefore follows that, if he be the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, these are not dead, but alive; alive with God, though they had ceased, for some hundreds of years, to exist among mortals. We may see, from this, that our Lord combats and confutes another opinion of the Sadducees, viz. that there is neither angel nor spirit; by showing that the soul is not only immortal, but lives with God, even while the body is detained in the dust of the earth, which body is afterwards to be raised to life, and united with its soul by the miraculous power of God, of which power they showed themselves to be ignorant when they denied the possibility of a resurrection.

from adam clarke on that. theres going to be a body for that spirit.
 
from adam clarke on that. theres going to be a body for that spirit.

(1Cor 15:39-44) All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, [and] another of birds [There are] also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. [There is] one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for [one] star differs from [another] star in glory. So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Who said there will not be any body in resurrection?
 
(1Cor 15:39-44) All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, [and] another of birds [There are] also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. [There is] one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for [one] star differs from [another] star in glory. So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Who said there will not be any body in resurrection?
you did, its a flesh, why then did the early church fight against gnosticism? that concept says jesus was a spirit and didnt have a body that was an apparation.

spirits have a body. if the words for soul has the idea of a body in it(nephesh chaya in hebrew) that means something.
 
You did not respond to what I referred in Scriptures.
LOL The list here that you have not answered is ,,,probably 80%. I went ahead and kept going because other folks might be reading, but you've pretty well worn it out.
Am I changing subjects?
Yup, you bounce all over especially when you cant respond coherently to objections. And you'va altered definitions too but whos counting ?
No. I want to make sure NONE in scriptures must contradict. I had clearly shown that scriptures contradict the theory you believe in and what Jesus said not does mean resurrection but rebirth which matches with scriptures.
Nope you just avoided John 5 24,25 and the many supporting passages quoted. .. but nice try .
As I previously stated, I can change my position only of all of scripture agree.
Nahh stay where you're at.
 
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you did, its a flesh, why then did the early church fight against gnosticism? that concept says jesus was a spirit and didnt have a body that was an apparation.

spirits have a body. if the words for soul has the idea of a body in it(nephesh chaya in hebrew) that means something.

Jesus did not say Spirits don't have body. He said:

(Luke 24:39) "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

Spirits don't have flesh and bones.
 
Nope you just avoided John 5 24,25 and the many supporting passages quoted. .. but nice try .

What you are quoting at John 5:24,25 to prove your theory simply ignores Col 3:3 where our life is actually hidden in Christ and a whole bunch of other passages which speaks about Christ raising all of what God had given Him on the last day including people yet to be born as in John 6:39 and we will not be in flesh (1Cor 15:50), neither marry nor given in marriage in resurrection (Matt 22:30). So, I cannot accept Amillenialism unless the interpretation is in agreement with all other verses of scripture.
 
Jesus did not say Spirits don't have body. He said:

(Luke 24:39) "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

Spirits don't have flesh and bones.
good then we too will have agreed that in the ressurection there will be a body of flesh. of which nature as it will have as we dont know of any organ changes to adam or what not when the fall came but like christ we will have body to see and hear.

ands it gnostics that say that not HIM!
 
good then we too will have agreed that in the ressurection there will be a body of flesh. of which nature as it will have as we dont know of any organ changes to adam or what not when the fall came but like christ we will have body to see and hear.

ands it gnostics that say that not HIM!

No! Scripture doesn't say that.

In resurrection,
  • there will not be any flesh (1Cor 15:50)
  • people don't marry nor given in marriage (Luke 20:35)
  • but be like angels of God (Luke 20:36)
  • We will be clothed with habitation from heaven NOT flesh (2Cor 5:2)
 
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