Why Sunday???

[Brother Lionel]

Well then, tell us .... exactly what directions has God given us on how to keep the holy day that HE designated.

Sure lets visit the Ten Commandments shall we?

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

(He didn't say keep everyday holy)

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

(He then begins to explain that when you rest, abstain from work, and devote time to Him during the day HE designated, then you're keeping this day holy, honoring His day - The Lord's Day. This is God's definition of keeping a day holy. So when you say "I keep everyday holy", according to the bible, you dont work at all, hence, I stated that whoever does this is lazy)

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

(Here, He explains WHEN the Sabbath day is, WHO it belongs to, and who should honor it along with you)

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(Here He explains WHY He wants us to honor this day and WHEN He made it holy - before sin. Notice that He explains what you are honoring when you observe this day. This day is a memorial to recognize that He is the creator of life. And since He made this day holy by sanctifying and hallowing it, He wants us to rest, fellowship, and spend time with Him on this day.)

Any questions?

 

[Tina]

But my friends, thats what I am trying to get you all to grasp. The Sabbath has nothing to do with the Old Covenant in terms of New Testament fulfillment. The Sabbath was the Sabbath before the law was even given, before the Jews were even a people, and even before sin entered the world. Did you all get my last statement? It existed BEFORE SIN.... If something was institutionalized by The Almighty God before sin, why do we need to change it after sin has come??? Honestly, does that make any sense people? Life was perfect in the beginning, and a major part of that life was the Sabbath, which was on the seventh day. How and why should that change now that sin has entered this world? Is sin greater than something that God has created??

Where in the Bible did God command people to observe Sabbath BEFORE SIN (before Adam and Eve) ?

I think not so, obviously, it should remain the same. And, in fact, it does because in Isaiah 66:23, God says this about heaven - AFTER SIN:

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now, based on the bible, the Sabbath was honored before sin, and it will be honored after sin is destroyed. Why would we not observe and honor this eternal principle in between the process? Think about it my friends...Pray and think about it...

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass: That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,†says the LORD.


This verse means that In the future, all people left alive after the Lord's judgments, Israelites and Gentiles, would worship Him continually in the New Jerusalem.


.

 

[Tina]

Sure lets visit the Ten Commandments shall we?

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

(He didn't say keep everyday holy)

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

(He then begins to explain that when you rest, abstain from work, and devote time to Him during the day HE designated, then you're keeping this day holy, honoring His day - The Lord's Day. This is God's definition of keeping a day holy. So when you say "I keep everyday holy", according to the bible, you dont work at all, hence, I stated that whoever does this is lazy)

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

(Here, He explains WHEN the Sabbath day is, WHO it belongs to, and who should honor it along with you)

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(Here He explains WHY He wants us to honor this day and WHEN He made it holy - before sin. Notice that He explains what you are honoring when you observe this day. This day is a memorial to recognize that He is the creator of life. And since He made this day holy by sanctifying and hallowing it, He wants us to rest, fellowship, and spend time with Him on this day.)

Any questions?

Let me ask you for the 4th time : HOW EXACTLY DO YOU OBSERVE SABBATH ON SATURDAYS ?

Or are you avoiding this question because you don’t observe it in the first place ?


Are you saying that pastors and church workers should cease all work on Saturdays ?


And you seem to neglect everything the NEW Testament has to say about this issue, confining yourself only to the OLD Testament.


1 Peter 1:13-16
Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.â€Â


Does this passage say anything about resting and being holy only on Sabbath ?

It says we rest our hope upon the revelation of Jesus Christ and so be holy in all our conduct.
The Jews of the Old Testament times had NO revelation of Jesus Christ.

.

 

[francisdesales]

But my friends, thats what I am trying to get you all to grasp. The Sabbath has nothing to do with the Old Covenant in terms of New Testament fulfillment. The Sabbath was the Sabbath before the law was even given, before the Jews were even a people, and even before sin entered the world.

Where does the Bible relate that the Sabbath was "GIVEN" before the Old Covenant? When did the Hebrews or the Patriarchs keep Saturday (or any other day) holy???

GOD rested. There was no command that MAN rest until the Decalogue was given...

Did you all get my last statement? It existed BEFORE SIN.... If something was institutionalized by The Almighty God before sin, why do we need to change it after sin has come??? Honestly, does that make any sense people?

When was the sabbath "institutionalized"? Answer that question and you'll find why Christians had no problems recognizing Sunday as the new "Sabbath" in commeration of the New Creation in Christ.

Now, based on the bible, the Sabbath was honored before sin, and it will be honored after sin is destroyed. Why would we not observe and honor this eternal principle in between the process? Think about it my friends...Pray and think about it...

What does this have to do with SATURDAY worship?

Regards

 

[Brother Lionel]

Where does the Bible relate that the Sabbath was "GIVEN" before the Old Covenant? When did the Hebrews or the Patriarchs keep Saturday (or any other day) holy??? GOD rested. There was no command that MAN rest until the Decalogue was given...

Sure. In Exodus 16, the children of Israel was in the wilderness of Sin on their journey from Elim which was between Elim and Sinai. After complaining, God provided manna from heaven for them. Exodus 16:26 it states: "Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." The Decalogue was not given until they reached Mt. Sinai in Exodus 20. Hence, God recognized and acknowledged the Sabbath BEFORE the Ten Commandments were given and before the Old Covenant was instituted.

Furthermore, the bible teaches us that Abraham kept God's commandments before the Jews were even a people. Genesis 26:5 says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The Ten Commandments weren't given until hundreds of years after Abraham but yet the bible says He kept God's commandments. Did these commandments and laws include the Sabbath? Yes because the Hebrew word used to describe 'commandments' in Genesis 26:5 is the word "mitsvah" which means 'the commandments of God' or 'the commandment code of all wisdom.' And this word is the same word used in Exodus 20 and in Deuteronomy when denoting the Ten Commandments. And the Sabbath is also in the Ten Commandments so the bible teaches us that this principle was observed well before it was introduced to the Jews at Mt. Sinai.

And lastly, you stated that God rested as if He did this for His health without rhyme or reason. God rested and ceased from labor for a reason and a purpose my friend - for an example for us to follow and to show us what was expected. This is later validated and explained in the Ten Commandments. And its why the fourth commandment is the only commandment that starts with the word "REMEMBER". So the only commandment that starts with the word "Remember" is the one and only commandment that you are telling me to forget.... That makes no sense....

When was the sabbath "institutionalized"? Answer that question and you'll find why Christians had no problems recognizing Sunday as the new "Sabbath" in commeration of the New Creation in Christ.

As the above passage stated, the Sabbath was created and established in the beginning - again, before sin. But show me in the bible where the Sabbath was changed from the seventh day of the week to the first. Yes, Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, but He died Friday and rested in the grave on the Sabbath. If anything, the resurrection proves my point my friend because Jesus rested according to the commandment. Also, Jesus instituted the New Covenant on Thursday, why dont I see everyone running to church on this day? This event is just as important as the resurrection but yet I hear nothing about this.

What does this have to do with SATURDAY worship?

Saturday is the Sabbath Francis....

 

[Free]

Just curious as to where worship on the Sabbath is commanded?

 

[Brother Lionel]

Let me ask you for the 4th time : HOW EXACTLY DO YOU OBSERVE SABBATH ON SATURDAYS ?
Or are you avoiding this question because you don’t observe it in the first place ?

The bible is clear tina that you observe the sabbath by resting, refraining from worldy activities, doing good, and devoting the day to God. However, you want to devote this time to Him is up to you, as long as its in the bounds of scripture.

Are you saying that pastors and church workers should cease all work on Saturdays ?

Good question but you seem to miss the point and purpose of the Sabbath which is two fold: to rest from your wordly labour and to spend time with God. In regards to Matthew 12, the Jewish leaders had corrupted many of the commandments by interpreting them more loosely than they were intended, a mistake which Christ rectified in chapter 5 in his sermon on the mount. But concerning the fourth commandment, they had erred in the other extreme and interpreted it too strictly. Keep in mind the bible also reveals to us that it is common for "men of corrupt minds" to often look to rituals and the external services of religion for salvation and think that these will to atone for the lack of morals in their life. Which the Jews did and Christ corrected. He didn't "do away" with the Sabbath, He addressed the Jews' corrupt practices.

But Jesus brought to their attention the daily instance of the priests which did a great deal of service work on the sabbath day; killing, flaying, burning the sacrificed beasts, which in a common case would have been profaning the sabbath. Yet they "were blameless" as Christ put it. It was never considered a transgression of the fourth commandment because the temple-service required and justified it. Therefore Jesus implied that those labours are lawful on the sabbath day which are necessary, not only to the support of life, but to the service of the day which is dedicated to God; as directing the church parking lot, travelling to church, preaching, and the like. Sabbath rest is to promote, not to hinder, sabbath worship. This worship includes the labourers of the sanctuary. So no, I a not saying that pastors and church workers should cease all work on Saturdays becasue these duties uplift man and God by serving. ;)

 

[Brother Lionel]

Just curious as to where worship on the Sabbath is commanded?

Sure, it is commanded in the Ten Commandments.

 

[Free]

Where?

 

[Brother Lionel]

I'm not going to say this is right or wrong. Just food for thought. I read this in another post on this forum but couldn't find the right post to reference to y'all. Genesis chapter 1 says-- and the evening and the morning was day one, two, etc. --If we all agree that Sunday is the first day of the week
Sunday evening- Monday morning day 1
Monday evening-Tuesday morning day 2
Tuesday evening-Wednesday morning day 3
Wednesday evening-Thursday morning day 4
Thursday evening- Friday morning day 5
Friday evening-Saturday morning day 6
Saturday evening-Sunday morning day 7
By this account we should be resting Saturday night and Sunday morning---say goodbye to all those Saturday night party's :rolling

Westtexas

LOL! I applaud your efforts WT. But below if the correct application of the traditional biblical week before the Babylonian system was implemented. The day of the week started with the evening and ended with the morning. So Sunday would actually by Saturday night.

Saturday evening - Sunday morning day 1
Sunday evening - Monday morning day 2
Monday evening - Tuesday morning day 3
Tuesday evening - Wednesday morning day 4
Wednesday evening - Thursday morning day 5
Thursday evening - Friday morning day 6 (preparation day)
Friday Evening - Saturday morning day 7 (Sabbath)

So You're Good On Saturday Nights!!

 

[Brother Lionel]

Check out the fourth commandment, Free.

 

[Free]

I did. I want you to quote it and point out to me where it says to worship on the Sabbath.

 

[Tina]

LOL! I applaud your efforts WT. But below if the correct application of the traditional biblical week before the Babylonian system was implemented. The day of the week started with the evening and ended with the morning. So Sunday would actually by Saturday night.

Saturday evening - Sunday morning day 1
Sunday evening - Monday morning day 2
Monday evening - Tuesday morning day 3
Tuesday evening - Wednesday morning day 4
Wednesday evening - Thursday morning day 5
Thursday evening - Friday morning day 6 (preparation day)
Friday Evening - Saturday morning day 7 (Sabbath)

So You're Good On Saturday Nights!!

So now based on the above, you are saying that Sabbath is only up till Saturday morning ?

By the way, in my country we have many churches (including mine) that hold worship services on Saturdays, not because it is the Sabbath, but because the congregations are too big. We have services on Saturdays AND Sundays to cater to about 2000 - 20,000 people that come to worship. Sometimes we also have weekdays services.

Well then, let me ask you .... if you have a church congregation that is too big to hold services ONLY on Saturdays, what will you do ?


:biglol

 

[Brother Lionel]

I did. I want you to quote it and point out to me where it says to worship on the Sabbath.

Very well then...

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Here God says to rest and keep the seventh day holy - this is the most basic form of worship. Keep in mind that what we consider as worship (corporate worship in a building for an hour or two and then going about our business) is different from what God considers worship.

The definition of worship is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Thus, according to the bible, God wants us to show "reverent honor and homage" to Him on this day. No where in the bible does it state otherwise or that He wants us to honor Sunday for that matter. Of course we are to "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" everyday, but this day is speacial in God's eyes and He wants us to recognize that by obeying His commandment. This is why He "blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy", man didn't bless it and make it holy, God did. So, why is man going against the fourth commandment and worshiping, resting, and regarding the day that "they" choose as holy when God, according to the bible, sanctioned no such thing? This is the question you must ask yourself. But then again, if you have scripture to support living contrary to the fourth commandment, then by all means, enlighten me... And please, no misinterpreted quotations from Paul, thanks.

 

[Brother Lionel]

So now based on the above, you are saying that Sabbath is only up till Saturday morning ?

No, the Sabbath has been the same since the beginning - from sundown Friday to sunset Saturday.

By the way, in my country we have many churches (including mine) that hold worship services on Saturdays, not because it is the Sabbath, but because the congregations are too big. We have services on Saturdays AND Sundays to cater to about 2000 - 20,000 people that come to worship. Sometimes we also have weekdays services.

Well then, let me ask you .... if you have a church congregation that is too big to hold services ONLY on Saturdays, what will you do ?

Tina, Tina, Tina....

Gathering in a building for a few hours is not what God considers keeping a day holy. Most Christians dont even keep Sunday holy. Some work, some go shopping, some go to worldly parties where they play worldly music, some treat Sunday as if it was Monday... In the fourth commandment, God says to keep the entire seventh day holy and reverent, in rest and devotion. God isnt concerned with how many people can fit into a building on Saturday... Sabbath keeping is so much more than that. However, keep in mind that the bible says to not forsake the assembling of the bretheren. But God is so much more than a building. The bottom line is that He wants us to keep the seventh day holy because He created it and sanctified it as a memorial to all the world showing that He alone is the Creator of all.

 

[Tina]

No, the Sabbath has been the same since the beginning - from sundown Friday to sunset Saturday.

Gathering in a building for a few hours is not what God considers keeping a day holy. Most Christians dont even keep Sunday holy. Some work, some go shopping, some go to worldly parties where they play worldly music, some treat Sunday as if it was Monday... In the fourth commandment, God says to keep the entire seventh day holy and reverent, in rest and devotion. God isnt concerned with how many people can fit into a building on Saturday... Sabbath keeping is so much more than that. However, keep in mind that the bible says to not forsake the assembling of the bretheren. But God is so much more than a building. The bottom line is that He wants us to keep the seventh day holy because He created it and sanctified it as a memorial to all the world showing that He alone is the Creator of all.

Well, tell us then .. what exactly do you do from sundown Friday to sunset Saturday ?

 

[Brother Lionel]

Well, tell us then .. what exactly do you do from sundown Friday to sunset Saturday ?

I do just what the bible says to do - rest and keep it holy. Generally, the day consists of church, rest, reflection & devotion to God, and spending time with family. I do not work, carry out any business related activities, or anything that I would normally do on a regular work day outside of the obvious necessities (brushing my teeth, bathing, cooking, eating, driving, etc.).

 

[Tina]

Well, tell us then .. what exactly do you do from sundown Friday to sunset Saturday ?

I do just what the bible says to do - rest and keep it holy. Generally, the day consists of church, rest, reflection & devotion to God, and spending time with family. I do not work, carry out any business related activities, or anything that I would normally do on a regular work day outside of the obvious necessities (brushing my teeth, bathing, cooking, eating, driving, etc.).

You mention church. Where is your church? Is it in your home?

.

 

[Free]

I did. I want you to quote it and point out to me where it says to worship on the Sabbath.

Very well then...

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Here God says to rest and keep the seventh day holy - this is the most basic form of worship. Keep in mind that what we consider as worship (corporate worship in a building for an hour or two and then going about our business) is different from what God considers worship.

The definition of worship is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Thus, according to the bible, God wants us to show "reverent honor and homage" to Him on this day. No where in the bible does it state otherwise or that He wants us to honor Sunday for that matter. Of course we are to "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" everyday, but this day is speacial in God's eyes and He wants us to recognize that by obeying His commandment. This is why He "blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy", man didn't bless it and make it holy, God did. So, why is man going against the fourth commandment and worshiping, resting, and regarding the day that "they" choose as holy when God, according to the bible, sanctioned no such thing? This is the question you must ask yourself. But then again, if you have scripture to support living contrary to the fourth commandment, then by all means, enlighten me... And please, no misinterpreted quotations from Paul, thanks.

So really, the long and short of it is, the commandment is to rest on the Sabbath and to worship God every day. So if people choose to gather on Sunday and worship him it is not unbiblical since the Bible says nothing against it. They can rest on the Sabbath and got to church on Sunday.

 

[Brother Lionel]

You mention church. Where is your church? Is it in your home?
.

We take part in corporate worship and no, my church home is not my physical home where I reside. We go to church just like anyone else would. Jesus went to church didn't He? In fact, the bible is clear that He went to church on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16). Why is this so hard to understand? Or is it that you understand quite well but you simply deny this truth? Bottom line is this: I can show you scripture after scripture (whether old or new testament) that supports the keeping of God's commandments, i.e. the fourth one, but you seem to lack that support when implying that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh day of the week to Sunday. If you have it, then show me. If you do not, then why do you do it???? Is it because of tradition? Is it because your parents did it and now you're doing it? Or could it be that you don't even know why you do it, you just do? Regardless of the reason, the fact is that the bible sanctioned no such thing.

Truth be told, the reason that I went to church on Sunday is because that's what my great grandparents did, it's what my grandparents did, it's what my parents did, and that is how they raised me. But as I began to question my faith and search for the truth, I found some pretty disturding things, one being Sunday worship. Many, many good people who love God don't even know the real truth about Sunday worship, including preachers and teachers. Open your eyes and reason with me Tina. If you claim to be a bible protestant christian, show me where the bible supports your claim. Show me where God or any of His chosen people changed the Sabbath from the seventh day of the week to the first.