Why the Church Gathering Has Changed

[OzSpen]

The earliest record of a gathering is in Lk 24:13-35) when Jesus meets the disciples on the road to Emmaus.
We have the scriptures explained to us (vs27),
we recognise him in the breaking of bread (vs 31),
we leave to proclaim the risen Lord (vs 33-35).

And in Acts 2:42
"And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."
So the Mass (Catholic/Orthodox and I think Anglican/Episcopalian) follows this pattern
The prayers (all through the Mass)
The apostle’s teaching (scripture readings & homily)
Breaking of bread (the Eucharist)
Fellowship (Gk koinonia = communion)

Justin Martyr wrote around 155AD
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. (The First Apology 67)

So Paul's comments seem out of line with that.

It really is Justin's comments are out of line with Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV).

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

It didn't take many posts to move away from the intent of the OP. I'm asking: "Why is 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) being violated in many/most of today's churches?" Every-person ministry is the model Paul taught.

Oz

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

The Roman Catholic Church does forbid priest’s from marrying, as well as abstaining from meat.


I could also say that Messianic Judaism teaches to abstain from eating pork and shrimp, as well as things from the law of Moses.




JLB

Shalom

1 Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

The Torah is the Truth, pork especially and shell fish are Not food, something created to eaten with thanksgiving, they are Unclean.

1 Peter 1:15​	But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;-(ἀναστροφῇ )
1 Peter 1:16​	Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

ἀναστροφῇ = manner of life, conduct, behaviour, deportment

Where is Peter Quoting From?

Below are the exact phrase matches. 4 of 4

Leviticus 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Leviticus 11:45
For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

Leviticus 20:7
Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

1 Peter 1:16
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"Holy" AND "For" AND "I" AND "AM" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

Leviticus Chapter 11. The entire chapter is what is Clean = Food and what is not clean = Never meant for food no matter how much it is prayed over.

In Acts Chapter 15, After deciding circumcision wasn't required for salvation, the Counsel gave four things they should not be doing, and two of them were Dietary,. abstain from things strangled-(not a kosher kill), and from blood, Half of the requirements to be admitted into an assembly in lieu of circumcision.

The Second Coming

Isaiah 66:15​	For, behold, YHWH will come with fire, and with His chariots like a whirlwind, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire.
Isaiah 66:16​	For by fire and by his sword will YHWH plead with all flesh: and the slain of YHWH shall be many.
Isaiah 66:17​	They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith YHWH.

Where does the prodigal son end up? with the swine

Where did YESHUA agree with demons to cast them into? swine that was being kept for food.

Peter learned what from the Vision he had? Answer, That he should call no man common or unclean.

Did YESHUA declare all things that people eat clean? Or did He say, to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man, the non kosher dust that was required by the pharisees to be washed off before eating.

Look, your disciple eat with dirty hands,

He is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever

I am Not Jewish, nor do I stand with Messianic Judaism-(elitism) as they do not represent my inheritance as a full Citizen of the House of Israel, they referring to this arrangement as Jew and Gentile, which I was, but am no longer
Ephesians 2:11
Ephesians 2:12

 

[jasonc]

It really is Justin's comments are out of line with Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV).

Oz

Not everyone is gifted to sing .

Though every can and should sing .all worship team members who sing or play read music .if the piano player dies .his son though not as gifted can play the piano .

I run the sound .I ensure during worship that the pastor isn't on .he can't sing but has played base and is learning .

That's is the point one Corinthian 12.im not talking about professional singers but those that can hold a note and able and are called to write music or play .

 

[for_his_glory]

It didn't take many posts to move away from the intent of the OP. I'm asking: "Why is 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) being violated in many/most of today's churches?" Every-person ministry is the model Paul taught.

Oz

Have you ever walked into a church and not felt the presence of the Holy Spirit? I know I have many times and actually walked back out the door. This is why many of the church gathering has changed as many assembling's have lost their first love and do not exercise the Spiritual gifts, 1 Corinthians 12. They have gone after a socially acceptable type of worship teaching a socially acceptable word so they will not insult those who attend the assembling. that leaves out the precious gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare/religio as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; 3:3; Romans 10:9-10)

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children, Hosea 4:6 . This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles, (wisdom) of God, if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever, Amen.

 

[jasonc]

Honestly but not in all cases . pentacostals services are chaotic.not ever toungue interpretation need be or spoken in service openly and loudly.


I'm complimentarian. Must pentacostals aren't .

If a man desire to be a bishop he must be a husband of one wife .I have seen bishops as women .

Hmmm . nevermind the idea of an elder either .

 

[OzSpen]

Not everyone is gifted to sing .

Though every can and should sing .all worship team members who sing or play read music .if the piano player dies .his son though not as gifted can play the piano .

I run the sound .I ensure during worship that the pastor isn't on .he can't sing but has played base and is learning .

That's is the point one Corinthian 12.im not talking about professional singers but those that can hold a note and able and are called to write music or play .

Please stick with the content of 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV): "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up."

It does not teach that everyone has the same gift but that when the church gathers, opportunity for expression of the diversity of gifts needs to be given.

I only see an attempt at this in Christian Brethren assemblies, but the women MUST remain silent. Some Pentecostal assemblies encourage the diversity of gifts with emphasis placed on the charismata, especially glossolalia.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Have you ever walked into a church and not felt the presence of the Holy Spirit?

FHG,

If I relied on my feelings of the Holy Spirit, I would not attend most church services. My Christian experience does not run on feelings. It is based on my relationship with the Lord Jesus.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Honestly but not in all cases . pentacostals services are chaotic.not ever toungue interpretation need be or spoken in service openly and loudly.


I'm complimentarian. Must pentacostals aren't .

If a man desire to be a bishop he must be a husband of one wife .I have seen bishops as women .

Hmmm . nevermind the idea of an elder either .

Pentecostal is the correct spelling.

 

[jasonc]

Pentecostal is the correct spelling.

What ever

 

[jasonc]

Please stick with the content of 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV): "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up."

It does not teach that everyone has the same gift but that when the church gathers, opportunity for expression of the diversity of gifts needs to be given.

I only see an attempt at this in Christian Brethren assemblies, but the women MUST remain silent. Some Pentecostal assemblies encourage the diversity of gifts with emphasis placed on the charismata, especially glossolalia.

Oz

Again. And God doesn't give people hymns In the heart that their Church doesn't sing .my elders wouldn't discourage a new worship member but are a bit picky on worship songs as many songs as ccm are created by non trinitarian types of have poor theology.

I don't know any church who has denied a person from singing a special or joining a worship team .

Your thread implied a person who wants to sing ,As my aunt did at my dad's funeral with amazing grace ,she can't sing .but it was beautiful as others sang in.but certainly God used but you can't expect a worship band to be that bad.

 

[jasonc]

And no in my experience as I grew up in the faith in charismatic churches .women pastors ,women elders ,deacons and prophets and so forth .I had one pray over me at work an hour ago and spoke in her language as led.


Plenty of pentacostals in worship allow women to speak and much more in offices .some even as apostles!

 

[jasonc]

Of that type I have attended or worshiped with for a while

Church of God ,pentacostal type
Assembly of God
A local church called world on fire revivals that still has a female pastor and elders who are women and and a assistant male pastor
Numerous tiny churches similar to that all over my county and in ft.pierce .

Christian and missionary alliance which ordaned female pastor one service .

 

[eddif]

For the comment above, No I am not saying everyone has to learn Koine Greek, there are English Words that are appropriate for Ekklesia such as Assembly, Congregation

And neither have Anything to do with a building or meeting place.

When did the Ekklesia begin?

Acts 7:38​

This is he, that was in the Ekklesia in the wilderness with the Angel which spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Deuteronomy 18:16

According to all that thou desired of YHWH thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly-Qahal, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of YHWH my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

Septuagint
18:16 κατὰ πάντα ὅσα ᾐτήσω παρὰ κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου ἐν Χωρηβ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τῆς ἐκκλησίας - Ekklesia

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Ekklesia; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

YESHUA did not start a New Ekklesia, He is building upon the one He started at Mt Sinai on the day of the Ekklesia

The previous post is a classic example of a strawman argument, an obfuscation.

I want in on this discussion. So I am gonna pick on you. LOL
Galatians 4:22 kjv
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I am kinda from the bad side. A gentile lost and without God in the world.

The Jews were ahead of the game. They had the law as a schoolmaster till Christ came. I come from the grafted in side.

The Jew and gentile form one new man
In Christ. The wall separating us is broken down. I just think there must be some rubble we trip over.

Enough of a start . I need to go back and read the OP.


eddif

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

I want in on this discussion. So I am gonna pick on you. LOL
Galatians 4:22 kjv
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I am kinda from the bad side. A gentile lost and without God in the world.

The Jews were ahead of the game. They had the law as a schoolmaster till Christ came. I come from the grafted in side.

The Jew and gentile form one new man
In Christ. The wall separating us is broken down. I just think there must be some rubble we trip over.

Enough of a start . I need to go back and read the OP.


eddif

To the Jew First then the Greek Speaking World

Strong's Number G1672 matches the Greek Ἕλλην (hellēn),

which occurs 27 times in 26 verses in the TR Greek

The KJV translates Strong's G1672 in the following manner: Greek (20x), Gentile=(7x) Wrong.

G1672 - ellēn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G1672 - Ἕλλην Héllēn, hel'-lane; from ; a Hellen (Grecian) or inhabitant of Hellas; by extension a Greek-speaking person, especially a non-Jew:—Gentile, Greek.

www.blueletterbible.org

Ethnos also translated as gentiles is where the words, Ethnic, Ethnicity come from.

The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x)=Wrong, nation (64x), heathen (5x)=Wrong, people (2x).

Strong's Number G1484 matches the Greek ἔθνος (ethnos),

which occurs 164 times in 152 verses in the TR Greek.

G1484 - ethnos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G1484 - ἔθνος éthnos, eth'-nos; probably from ; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

www.blueletterbible.org

Ethnos' people of the same race or culture, together a nation, There's the nations and then there's being a citizen of His Nation, the House of Jacob Luke 1:33

To the Jew First, the natural branch, the cultivated branch, then to the Greeks, the wild olive branch (Are You Greek)

Both branches were Broken

Jeremiah 11:16​	YHVH called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult He hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Jeremaih 11:17​	For YHWH of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense unto baal.
​

Romans 11:24
For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

The Olive Tree has two Branches, The House of Judah and The House of Israel

There is so much more to this, and hopefully I will be able to cover more on this subject in another post, How Both Judah and Israel are called Goyim, and show by the Septuagint that Ethnos is the Greek equivalent thereof, but that will have to wait...

 

[eddif]

Wow! I be done stepped on a ground wasp nest when I entered this thread.

Oh well I might as well get her done.
The assembly of the new covenant IMHO Started on the days just prior to Pentecost. The followers of Jesus ( about 120?), righteous men Jews and proselyte alike from a lot of places were there, bystanders were there, the disciples / apostles were there, the Holy Spirit arrived.

Break in time

The gentile inclusion at the house of Cornelius took place. With the Circumcision Party present.


Please note that this thread has about every one of those groups posting in this gathering. Decently and in order with administrators helping. Now each can speak and their message be weighed? We’ll sort of.
1 Corinthians 14:29 kjv
29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Females can speak:
But which females?
Women? Married asking questions?
Virgins of good character?
Widows following God?
Sons and daughters shall speak / prophesy.


There are some with ministry gifts (male and female)
There are some with spiritual gifts (given by the Holy Spirit.)
There are some unlearned
There are some new folks

Let the gathering worship begin. GP. Go preach or Go plow.

Whosoever wills may come. Are we prepared to handle the gathering?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

To the Jew First then the Greek Speaking World

Strong's Number G1672 matches the Greek Ἕλλην (hellēn),

which occurs 27 times in 26 verses in the TR Greek

The KJV translates Strong's G1672 in the following manner: Greek (20x), Gentile=(7x) Wrong.

G1672 - ellēn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G1672 - Ἕλλην Héllēn, hel'-lane; from ; a Hellen (Grecian) or inhabitant of Hellas; by extension a Greek-speaking person, especially a non-Jew:—Gentile, Greek.

www.blueletterbible.org

Ethnos also translated as gentiles is where the words, Ethnic, Ethnicity come from.

The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x)=Wrong, nation (64x), heathen (5x)=Wrong, people (2x).

Strong's Number G1484 matches the Greek ἔθνος (ethnos),

which occurs 164 times in 152 verses in the TR Greek.

G1484 - ethnos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G1484 - ἔθνος éthnos, eth'-nos; probably from ; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

www.blueletterbible.org

Ethnos' people of the same race or culture, together a nation, There's the nations and then there's being a citizen of His Nation, the House of Jacob Luke 1:33

To the Jew First, the natural branch, the cultivated branch, then to the Greeks, the wild olive branch (Are You Greek)

Both branches were Broken

Jeremiah 11:16​	YHVH called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult He hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Jeremaih 11:17​	For YHWH of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
​

Romans 11:24
For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

The Olive Tree has two Branches, The House of Judah and The House of Israel

There is so much more to this, and hopefully I will be able to cover more on this subject in another post, How Both Judah and Israel are called Goyim, and show by the Septuagint that Ethnos is the Greek equivalent thereof, but that will have to wait...

2 Timothy 2:14 kjv
14. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Every group seems to know the language supports their group. LOL

eddif

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

2 Timothy 2:14 kjv
14. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Every group seems to know the language supports their group. LOL

eddif

Are you in Messiah? Then you're Israel whether you know it or not.

Galatians 3:29​

And if ye be Messiah's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend.

His Inheritance Luke 1:33

 

[eddif]

Are you in Messiah? Then you're Israel whether you know it or not.

Galatians 3:29​

And if ye be Messiah's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend.

His Inheritance Luke 1:33

In post 34 I said
“I am kinda from the bad side. A gentile lost and without God in the world.”
From meaning my original heritage and also I am away from my origin and am grafted in to the correct root. I was from a Christian family that never talked about many spiritual things. I still claim being a Christian with a messianic comprehension. My Bible reading started in the Old Testament. I mean every word? And tried to comprehend it. Then I read the New Testament with the same vigor.
I Am a one new man supporter. I have a passion for seeing Jew and gentile in Christ Jesus.

If the sons of Jacob are the gates of New Jerusalem there should be a gate with compassion for all types. Changed types of course.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Honestly but not in all cases . pentacostals services are chaotic.not ever toungue interpretation need be or spoken in service openly and loudly.


I'm complimentarian. Must pentacostals aren't .

If a man desire to be a bishop he must be a husband of one wife .I have seen bishops as women .

Hmmm . nevermind the idea of an elder either .

Solomon was drawn away by his foreign wives. It is not one wife but one type of wife IMHO

It would be better not to marry for some.

We have so many years with closed minds,

A discussion would possibly not bear fruit.


eddif