Why the Church Gathering Has Changed

[jasonc]

It would be interesting to attend your church and see if this how it appears to visitors, who likely have an unbiased view. Years ago they were simply called the music team because they played and or sang. Now they are defined by the end goal whether that actually occurs or not.

We post lyrics so that all can sing .I run the sound I can hear this .I have to adjust the sound a bit after practice because of the absorption.i hear it .the exceptions are a special .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Have you ever walked into a church and not felt the presence of the Holy Spirit? I know I have many times and actually walked back out the door. This is why many of the church gathering has changed as many assembling's have lost their first love and do not exercise the Spiritual gifts, 1 Corinthians 12. They have gone after a socially acceptable type of worship teaching a socially acceptable word so they will not insult those who attend the assembling. that leaves out the precious gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare/religio as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; 3:3; Romans 10:9-10)

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children, Hosea 4:6 . This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles, (wisdom) of God, if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever, Amen.

Pretty good piece, FhG. You and I have disagreed so it is right that I tell you when I find your piece spot on.

I think many churches today are shows. The building that used to put the focus on worship of God, having a front area that honored him in some form, have been turned into theaters with an actual stage and spotlights up front. The people leading are elevated both literally on stage and otherwise in the focus of the service. They no longer need the presence of the Lord because they have raised up excellent musicians and honored them with the highest title words can convey, the "worship team" although I am not quite sure if the goal is for God to be worshipped or for them to be worshipped since they NEVER step away from the mic nor the spotlight. And since the music is so moving, they call that the "spirit of God" and sometimes even sing that He is there "moving in their midst" no matter if He is or not. (I have no idea how they, in good conscience, can plan to sing that God is moving in their midst healing people knowing full well that God healing people is not at all likely to happen.) No need for God to show up at all. They have moving music with professional performers.

It is no wonder that so many of these "worship" leaders eventually leave the faith altogether. They got tired of the show and being actors before an all but cheering audience. After some years, the fakery of it all got to their conscience and they decided since their "worship leading" was just a show, the whole of christianity must be equally false. One can carry the burden of falseness only so long.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We post lyrics so that all can sing .I run the sound I can hear this .I have to adjust the sound a bit after practice because of the absorption.i hear it .the exceptions are a special .

It used to be that we all knew the lyrics and so could sing from the heart. It is really a different experience to sing the words you already know than merely read them to music. But in those days we sang simple songs that were very often scripture, literally word for word. Scripture is no longer sung. You know, a friend at church asked some young adults how they could sing sone of those lyrics and they responded they don’t even think about the words. And this is called worship of God!

Listen to how often the songs tell of the how great we are in some form. (one even claims everyone singing it is a friend of God) Listen to how often "me" and "I" are in the song and how seldom "God" and "Jesus" are mentioned in comparison.

 

[Mungo]

I prefer to live under the precepts and example of the New Testament.

OK, So just throw the OT in the bin. Nothing to learn from it.

 

[jasonc]

It used to be that we all knew the lyrics and so could sing from the heart. It is really a different experience to sing the words you already know than merely read them to music. But in those days we sang simple songs that were very often scripture, literally word for word. Scripture is no longer sung. You know, a friend at church asked some young adults how they could sing sone of those lyrics and they responded they don’t even think about the words. And this is called worship of God!

Listen to how often the songs tell of the how great we are in some form. (one even claims everyone singing it is a friend of God) Listen to how often "me" and "I" are in the song and how seldom "God" and "Jesus" are mentioned in comparison.

We don't sing this in my church .old hymnals and a few new ones that Glorify God .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We don't sing this in my church .old hymnals and a few new ones that Glorify God .

I’m not taking about hymnals. They rarely used scripture. But what songs do you see as glorifying God?

 

[jasonc]

I’m not taking about hymnals. They rarely used scripture. But what songs do you see as glorifying God?

1600 to late 1800s do.

Amazing grace .and olders one .

Ever hears of the doxology?

That's a song ,a short one .

We use it for giving time .our songs and the Bible reading segue to the sermon given .I don't select the songs .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

1600 to late 1800s do.

Amazing grace .and olders one .

Ever hears of the doxology?

That's a song ,a short one .

We use it for giving time .our songs and the Bible reading segue to the sermon given .I don't select the songs .

This is what you sing now at church, the hymns from 17th century? Nothing modern? No Hillsong or Bethel?

 

[WIP]

It used to be that we all knew the lyrics and so could sing from the heart. It is really a different experience to sing the words you already know than merely read them to music. But in those days we sang simple songs that were very often scripture, literally word for word. Scripture is no longer sung. You know, a friend at church asked some young adults how they could sing sone of those lyrics and they responded they don’t even think about the words. And this is called worship of God!

Listen to how often the songs tell of the how great we are in some form. (one even claims everyone singing it is a friend of God) Listen to how often "me" and "I" are in the song and how seldom "God" and "Jesus" are mentioned in comparison.

Not trying to be critical here but I wonder if you're speaking of Christians or are you speaking of yourself? I do think you make a valid point but please hear me out. In fact, I do not even care to hear your defense of yourself for my question is rhetorical and intended for you to ask yourself.

Is what you're saying really about other Christians or is it about you? Are you perhaps struggling in worship?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not trying to be critical here but I wonder if you're speaking of Christians or are you speaking of yourself? I do think you make a valid point but please hear me out. In fact, I do not even care to hear your defense of yourself for my question is rhetorical and intended for you to ask yourself.

Is what you're saying really about other Christians or is it about you? Are you perhaps struggling in worship?

I laughed out loud. This is a fairly common defense when challenged… make the critical remark into some physiological struggle the speaker has. This is fairly worldly, I might add.

Some songs we blithely sing, if we said the words sans music, the insulting matters they attribute to God would be obvious. Those who sing them would be deeply insulted if someone said that of them.

But most of the songs focus on us mainly. We are the center of many many songs.

 

[jasonc]

This is what you sing now at church, the hymns from 17th century? Nothing modern? No Hillsong or Bethel?

Nope , especially not bethel ,Hillsong a few times .

I don't listen to non trinitarian and or way out pastors

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nope , especially not bethel ,Hillsong a few times .

That really blesses me!! There are some who see this music for what it is and I thank you for sharing. Our church has no problem singing these songs and it grieves me.

I don't listen to non trinitarian and or way out pastors

Again, your words bless me. Thank you Jason C!!

 

[jasonc]

It's why I say things about the reformed her .only they do that with a passion .they may not be the only ones .as I know of a few others don't as well.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's why I say things about the reformed her .only they do that with a passion .they may not be the only ones .as I know of a few others don't as well.

There’s a move of believers into reformed theology congregations and the thought is they are weary of the shenanigans of the “catch the fire, toronto blessing” churches with their demeaning barking and demonic like screaming during their “services.” Reformed calmness is then welcome.

 

[jasonc]

There’s a move of believers into reformed theology congregations and the thought is they are weary of the shenanigans of the “catch the fire, toronto blessing” churches with their demeaning barking and demonic like screaming during their “services.” Reformed calmness is then welcome.

Never met those ,but heard of it.

I was raised in the faith as a pentacostal and we got excited but barking ?no and shrieking ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Never met those ,but heard of it.

I was raised in the faith as a pentacostal and we got excited but barking ?no and shrieking ?

You wouldn’t believe the scenes. A pastor from the Airport Vineyard, toronto blessing wrote that they had more of the fruit and gifts of the Holy Spirit BEFORE being invaded by these things. The moral decay in his church after was also noticeable.

 

[jasonc]

You wouldn’t believe the scenes. A pastor from the Airport Vineyard, toronto blessing wrote that they had more of the fruit and gifts of the Holy Spirit BEFORE being invaded by these things. The moral decay in his church after was also noticeable.

I read up on that ,the holy laughter etc ,it gives pentacostals a bad name .

While I do think my church is too quiet as if you go overseas to Africa ,worship is anything. But quiet .there has to be order to it .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I read up on that ,the holy laughter etc ,it gives pentacostals a bad name .

While I do think my church is too quiet as if you go overseas to Africa ,worship is anything. But quiet .there has to be order to it .

I agree.

 

[PeterJens]

The early church was raised in this teaching: "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up" (1 Cor 14:26 NIV).

The Corinthians were taught that everyone has a ministry and each ought to exercise that ministry when they gather as the church.

I wish I were young enough to research the reasons why the church moved from an every-member ministry to the prominence of one person (male) to lead the church. Are you aware of any publications/research that can shed some light on this?

Blessings in Christ,
Oz

This is always an interesting concept and miss-understanding of hierarchies in the church. Apostles, prophets, teachers etc. Yes we all minister to one another, but there are still different ministries and authorities. One problem with making this though a job through which someone earns their money, they cannot speak the truth to power if that power feeds them.

I personally like the baptist compromise where they appoint a minister but the body of the church decides major points so whatever goes on the church goes with it. I have seen frustrations with this and also go round technological blocks through lack of experience, but praise the Lord it exists, so you often cannot get a take over by an aggressive group which leads to expulsions of elements of do not toe the leaders line.

Jesus's example is lead by example and minister to the needs of others. Jesus lived with Judas though knew his choice and outcome, but said nothing and stopped nothing. Many ministers have followed this path, praise the Lord, though false teachers cannot resist absolute power and constant conflict..... God bless

 

[WIP]

I laughed out loud. This is a fairly common defense when challenged… make the critical remark into some physiological struggle the speaker has. This is fairly worldly, I might add.

Some songs we blithely sing, if we said the words sans music, the insulting matters they attribute to God would be obvious. Those who sing them would be deeply insulted if someone said that of them.

But most of the songs focus on us mainly. We are the center of many many songs.

No defense. Just observation.