Why the seventh day is so important

[Soma-Sight]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

 

[Heidi]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

For the Jews. But for people who've entered God's rest, we come to Christ for rest.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

For the Jews. But for people who've entered God's rest, we come to Christ for rest.

But are the Jews not lost, Heidi? So why are they even bothering keeping that specific day? The truth is, they're keeping that specific day because God asked them to ...forever! Whether the Jews were to eventually reject Jesus or not, God never instructed them to "keep my Sabbath Day ONLY until the Messiah comes." He told them to keep it "forever." So, it might appear that they are STILL in God's future plan somehow.

As for one who has entered into God's rest, Heidi, that simply means (and I say yet again!) that one has accepted the gift of salvation. And TODAY is the day on which to accept that gift. The Sabbath is still an actual day of the week ...the seventh to be precise - which, by the way, is SATURDAY to you and me, Heidi!

As I've mentioned a number of times previously, the Sabbath was initiated at Creation BEFORE the need for a Savior had arisen. Is there any chance that you, Heidi, or anyone else can address this point of interest instead of passing it off and blindly continuing down the same track of regurgitation?

Again, the Sabbath was initiated at Creation BEFORE the fall of man, BEFORE the need for a Savior, BEFORE THE FIRST JEW! So, how then can the Creation Sabbath (an actual 24-hour period) NOW be referred to as resting in Christ or ONLY for the Jew? Maybe someone has an answer. I'd love to hear it.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

The reason why mainstream Christians MUST fight it is, of course, obvious. Imagine the commotion and the upheaval it would create if only one denomination (the Baptists, for example), made the proclamation: "Commencing next week we will be observing the biblical 7th-day Sabbath. For the individual this time period will begin Friday sunset and will end Saturday sunset. The doors of the church will be open for the first Sabbath School & Worship Service next Saturday at 9-30am. All welcome!"

Can you imagine this scenario? The church would divide and splinter into a million different pieces. No, it's FAR easier and way more user-friendly to say, "It doesn't matter which day one calls the Sabbath." Better yet ...why not get rid of ALL the commandments? Hmmm ...what a great idea!

 

[Solo]

What did the early Christian Church do on the First Day of the Week, and what did they believe about the Sabbath? Here are some quotes from believers from 90AD on to 597AD. Very interesting.


90AD DIDACHE: "Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day: 1. But every Lord's day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. 2. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. 3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, saith the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations." (Didache: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Chapter XIV)

100 AD BARNABAS "We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD 15:6-8).

100 AD BARNABAS: Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which, when I have rested [heaven: Heb 4] from all things, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.' Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

110AD Pliny: they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath not to (do) any wicked deeds, never to commit any fraud, theft, or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of good foodâ€â€but food of an ordinary and innocent kind. (About three years after the death of Ignatius in 250, an important official communication was sent from one Pliny to Trajan the Roman emperor. Pliny, the Roman governor of Bithynia, wrote of the Christians who had been congregating there probably from at least A.D. 62 onwards. In this remarkable it is explicitly stated that these early Christians observed the substance of most of the Ten Commandments, and it is implied that they observed all ten as far as they were able to do so. As far as they were able, for as most of the early Christians were of slave stock or from other lower classes'-, and those who had heathen masters or employersâ€â€the vast majorityâ€â€would be forced to work on their day of rest, which was unfortunately an official working day throughout the empires' until Constantine's "Sabbath" Edict in 321 A.D. gave them some measure of public protection. Hence one reads that after meeting "on a certain fixed day before it was light", the first century Bithynian Christians had "to separate"â€â€many of them having to labour for their masters and/or employers from dawn to duskâ€â€"and then reassemble to partake of . . . food". The "certain fixed day" [stato die"'] on which the Christians met, is regarded by Seventh-day Adventists as Saturday'-. Certainly the expression would seem to indicate a regular day of meeting, probably each week. But Sunday is far more likely to have been the "certain fixed day" than Saturday. For if Pliny had been referring to the old Saturday Sabbath, as a Roman he would doubtless have referred to the "later" meeting first and only then to the morning meeting on the day al ter the "certain fixed day", seeing that the old Saturday Sabbath was demarcated from the evening of one day to the evening of the following day. But Pliny makes no such reference. Instead, he mentions that the pre-dawn meeting took place firstâ€â€and only afterwards the later meeting; and that both meetings took place on the same "certain fixed day". This rather points to the Roman (andâ€â€more importantly!â€â€New Testament) midnight to midnight demarcation of modern Sunday-keepers than to the evening to evening demarcation of the Jews and the Seventh-day Adventists. (The covenantial Sabbath, Francis Nigel Lee, Pg 242)

150AD EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES.- I [Christ] have come into being on the eighth day which is the day of the Lord. (18)

150AD JUSTIN: "He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]. The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first.". (Justin, Dialogue 41:4)

150AD JUSTIN: ...those who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent, shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance of God. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 207)

150AD JUSTIN: But if we do not admit this, we shall be liable to fall into foolish opinion, as if it were not the same God who existed in the times of Enoch and all the rest, who neither were circumcised after the flesh, nor observed Sabbaths, nor any other rites, seeing that Moses enjoined such observances... For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 206)

150AD JUSTIN: "And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)

150AD JUSTIN: Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned [after mentioning Adam. Abel, Enoch, Lot, Noah, Melchizedek, and Abraham], though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Abraham with all his descendants until Moses... And you [fleshly Jews] were commanded to keep Sabbaths, that you might retain the memorial of God. For His word makes this announcement, saying, "That you may know that I am God who redeemed you." (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 204)

150AD JUSTIN: There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends, is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor, are we circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers, nor do we observe the Sabbath as you do. (Dialogue with Trypho 10:1. In verse 3 the Jew Trypho acknowledges that Christians 'do not keep the Sabbath.')
150AD JUSTIN: We are always together with one another. And for all the things with which we are supplied we bless the Maker of all through his Son Jesus Christ and through his Holy Spirit. And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. (There follows an account of a Christian worship service, which is quoted in VII.2.) We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)
155 AD Justin Martyr "[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you--namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us--I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you [Jews] to keep the Sabbath, and impose on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers" (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21).

180AD ACTS OF PETER.- Paul had often contended with the Jewish teachers and had confuted them, saying 'it is Christ on whom your fathers laid hands. He abolished their Sabbath and fasts and festivals and circumcision.' (1: I)-2

180AD GOSPEL OF PETER: Early in the morning when (he Sabbath dawned, a multitude from Jerusalem and the surrounding country came to see the scaled sepulchre. In the night in which the Lord's day dawned, while the soldiers in pairs for each watch were keeping guard, a great voice came from heaven. [There follows an account of the resurrection. Early in the morning of the Lord's day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord …. came to the sepulchre. (9:34f.; 12:50f.)

190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: (in commenting on each of the Ten Commandments and their Christian meaning The seventh day is proclaimed a day of rest, preparing by abstention from evil for the Primal day, our true rest. (Ibid. VII. xvi. 138.1)

190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Ibid. Vii.xii.76.4)

190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: Plato prophetically speaks of the Lord's day in the tenth book of the Republic, in these words: 'And when seven days have passed to each of them in the meadow, on the eighth they must go on." (Miscellanies V.xiv.106.2)

200AD BARDESANES: Wherever we are, we are all called after the one name of Christ Christians. On one day, the first of the week, we assemble ourselves together (On Fate)

200AD TERTULLIAN: "We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath" (Tertullian's Apology, Ch 16)

200AD TERTULLIAN: It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary. (An Answer to the Jews 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 155)

200AD TERTULLIAN: Let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of threat of death, teach us that in earliest times righteous men kept Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and so were made friends of God. .. ...Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended... Noah also, uncircumcised - yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath - God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world... Melchizedek also, "the priest of most high God," uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. (An Answer to the Jews 2:10; 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 153)

200AD TERTULLIAN: Others . . . suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is well-known that we regard Sunday as a day of joy. (To the Nations 1: 133)

200AD TERTULLIAN: To us Sabbaths are foreign. (On Idolatry, 14:6)4

220AD ORIGEN "On Sunday none of the actions of the world should be done. If then, you abstain from all the works of this world and keep yourselves free for spiritual things, go to church, listen to the readings and divine homilies, meditate on heavenly things. (Homil. 23 in Numeros 4, PG 12:749)

220 AD Origen "Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28).

225 AD The Didascalia "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation, because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2).

250AD CYPRIAN: The eight day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord's Day." (Epistle 58, Sec 4)

250 AD IGNATIUS: "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master-how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead. If, then, those who were conversant with the ancient Scriptures came to newness of hope, expecting the coming of Christ, as the Lord teaches us when He says, "If ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me; " and again, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it, and was glad; for before Abraham was, I am; " how shall we be able to live without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit, and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Saviour, saying, "He will come and save us." Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat." For say the [holy] oracles, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread." But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, "To the end, for the eighth day," on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, "whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things," who are "lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." These make merchandise of Christ, corrupting His word, and giving up Jesus to sale: they are corrupters of women, and covetous of other men's possessions, swallowing up wealth insatiably; from whom may ye be delivered by the mercy of God through our Lord Jesus Christ! (Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, Chapter IX)

250AD IGNATIUS: "On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathaea had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord's day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord's Day contains the resurrection." (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians, chapter 9)

250AD IGNATIUS: If any one fasts on the Lord's Day or on the Sabbath, except on the paschal Sabbath only, he is a murderer of Christ. (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philippians, chapter 8)

250AD IGNATIUS: "This [custom], of not bending the knee upon Sunday, is a symbol of the resurrection, through which we have been set free, by the grace of Christ, from sins, and from death, which has been put to death under Him. Now this custom took its rise from apostolic times, as the blessed Irenaeus, the martyr and bishop of Lyons, declares in his treatise On Easter, in which he makes mention of Pentecost also; upon which [feast] we do not bend the knee, because it is of equal significance with the Lord's day, for the reason already alleged concerning it." (Ignatius, Fragments)

300 AD Victorinus "The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World).

300AD EUSEBIUS: "They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath neither do we; … because such things as these do not belong to Christians" (Ecc. Hist., Book 1, Ch. 4)

300AD EUSEBIUS: [The Ebionites] were accustomed to observe the Sabbath and other Jewish customs but on the Lord's days to celebrate the same practices as we in remembrance of the resurrection of the Savior. (Church History Ill.xxvii.5)

300 AD Eusebius of Caesarea "They [the pre- Mosaic saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things" (Church History 1:4:8).

300 AD Eusebius of Caesarea "The day of his [Christ's] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord's day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic Law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the Apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).

345 AD Athanasius "The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord's day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord's day as being the memorial of the new creation" (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3).

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Be not careless of yourselves, neither deprive your Saviour of His own members, neither divide His body nor disperse His members, neither prefer the occasions of this life to the word of God; but assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord's house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 2)

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: For if the Gentiles every day, when they arise from sleep, run to their idols to worship them, and before all their work and all their labors do first of all pray to them, and in their feasts and in their solemnities do not keep away, but attend upon them; and not only those upon the place, but those living far distant do the same; and in their public shows all come together, as into a synagogue: in the same manner those which are vainly called Jews, when they have worked six days, on the seventh day rest, and come together in their synagogue, never leaving or neglecting either rest from labor or assembling together... If, therefore, those who are not saved frequently assemble together for such purposes as do not profit them, what apology wilt thou make to the Lord God who forsakes his Church, not imitating so much as the heathen, but by such, thy absence grows slothful, or turns apostate. or acts wickedness? To whom the Lord says to Jeremiah, "Ye have not kept My ordinances; nay, you have not walked according to the ordinance of the heathen and you have in a manner exceeded them... How, therefore, will any one make his apology who has despised or absented himself from the church of God? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 2)

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Do you therefore fast, and ask your petitions of God. We enjoin you to fast every fourth day of the week, and every day of the preparation, and the surplusage of your fast bestow upon the needy; every Sabbath-day excepting one, and every Lord's day, hold your solemn assemblies, and rejoice: for he will be guilty of sin who fasts on the Lord's day, being the day of the resurrection, or during the time of Pentecost, or, in general, who is sad on a festival day to the Lord For on them we ought to rejoice, and not to mourn. (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 5)

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS "Which Days of the Week We are to Fast, and Which Not, and for What Reasons: But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week. But do you either fast the entire five days, or on the fourth day of the week, and on the day of the Preparation, because on the fourth day the condemnation went out against the Lord, Judas then promising to betray Him for money; and you must fast on the day of the Preparation, because on that day the Lord suffered the death of the cross under Pontius Pilate. But keep the Sabbath, and the Lord's day festival; because the former is the memorial of the creation, and the latter of the resurrection. But there is one only Sabbath to be observed by you in the whole year, which is that of our Lord's burial, on which men ought to keep a fast, but not a festival. For inasmuch as the Creator was then under the earth, the sorrow for Him is more forcible than the joy for the creation; for the Creator is more honourable by nature and dignity than His own creatures." (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 7)

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS "How We Ought to Assemble Together, and to Celebrate the Festival Day of Our Saviour's Resurrection. On the day of the resurrection of the Lord, that is, the Lord's day, assemble yourselves together, without fail, giving thanks to God, and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ, and has delivered you from ignorance, error, and bondage, that your sacrifice may be unspotted, and acceptable to God, who has said concerning His universal Church: "In every place shall incense and a pure sacrifice be offered unto me; for I am a great King, saith the Lord Almighty, and my name is wonderful among the heathen." (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 7)

350 AD Cyril of Jerusalem "Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean" (Catechetical Lectures 4:37).

360 AD Council of Laodicea "Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord's day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians" (canon 29).

387 AD John Chrysostom "You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the Law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul's words, that the observance of the Law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews?" (Homilies on Galatians 2:17).

387 AD John Chrysostom "The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews' account, forasmuch as the Law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn that the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath" (Homilies on Philippians 10).

412 AD Augustine "Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these Ten Commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian . . . Which of these commandments would anyone say that the Christian ought not to keep? It is possible to contend that it is not the Law which was written on those two tables that the apostle [Paul] describes as 'the letter that kills' [2 Cor. 3:6], but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished" (The Spirit and the Letter 24).

597 AD Gregory I "It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord's day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord's day to be had in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the Law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, 'You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day' (Jer. 17:24) could be held to as long as it was lawful for the Law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the Law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: 'If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing' (Gal. 5:2)" (Letters 13:1).


As a note: The Seventh-Day Adventists began keeping the Sabbath in 1844 back when they were known as the Millerites.

http://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

 

[Vic C.]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

The reason why mainstream Christians MUST fight it is, of course, obvious. Imagine the commotion and the upheaval it would create if only one denomination (the Baptists, for example), made the proclamation: "Commencing next week we will be observing the biblical 7th-day Sabbath. For the individual this time period will begin Friday sunset and will end Saturday sunset. The doors of the church will be open for the first Sabbath School & Worship Service next Saturday at 9-30am. All welcome!"

Can you imagine this scenario? The church would divide and splinter into a million different pieces. No, it's FAR easier and way more user-friendly to say, "It doesn't matter which day one calls the Sabbath." Better yet ...why not get rid of ALL the commandments? Hmmm ...what a great idea!

No, they would probably join with the Seventh Day Baptists, which were founded in December of 1671. This preceded the SDA by over 150 years.

 

[thessalonian]

Seven is a Holy Number.....

Seventh Day was set aside since the Creation as the Day of Rest and Worship......

Why fight it?

The reason why mainstream Christians MUST fight it is, of course, obvious. Imagine the commotion and the upheaval it would create if only one denomination (the Baptists, for example), made the proclamation: "Commencing next week we will be observing the biblical 7th-day Sabbath. For the individual this time period will begin Friday sunset and will end Saturday sunset. The doors of the church will be open for the first Sabbath School & Worship Service next Saturday at 9-30am. All welcome!"

Can you imagine this scenario? The church would divide and splinter into a million different pieces. No, it's FAR easier and way more user-friendly to say, "It doesn't matter which day one calls the Sabbath." Better yet ...why not get rid of ALL the commandments? Hmmm ...what a great idea!

No, they would probably join with the Seventh Day Baptists, which were founded in December of 1671. This preceded the SDA by over 150 years.

Yes, there are Seventh Day Baptists and seventh day non-denominationals as well. Seems like there are as many reasons to start a church as there are heads. I do believe Seventh Day Luther and Seventh Day Prebyterian is open if someone needs a job. If you make them health and wealth Lutheran or Presbyterian the money could be pretty good. You might even afford some fine duds, a rolex and a lear jet. :

I am sorry, I know there are men who start denominations for sincere reasons. Though sincerety isn't always what it is cracked up to be.

 

[SputnikBoy]

What did the early Christian Church do on the First Day of the Week, and what did they believe about the Sabbath? Here are some quotes from believers from 90AD on to 597AD. Very interesting.


90AD DIDACHE: "Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day: 1. But every Lord's day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. 2. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. 3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, saith the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations." (Didache: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Chapter XIV)

And the list went on and on. As diligent as you were with the cut and paste, however, you only highlighted the point, Solo, that some of us have been making from the start ...that it was MAN and not GOD who initiated a 'holy day'. Can a human even initiate a 'holy day' without a command from God ...isn't that tantamount to blasphemy?

You would possibly be one of those to criticize an Adventist's emphasis on Ellen White (as well you might) but you evidently have no problem emphasizing the names of mere mortals (who you refer to as 'believers') to somehow indicate that the changing of the day of worship by MEN is okay. Hmmmm ...

As a matter of interest, Justin Martyr (A.D. 145) considered Jewish Christians as 'weak brothers' because they upheld Sabbath observance as well as the pagan-rooted Sunday. Is it any wonder that this kind of intimidation may well have caused many to follow the trend of rejecting the Sabbath entirely? And, look around, people LOVE to follow trends. They often don't even need a reason to do so.

The Epistle of Barnabas (A.D. 100) says: "Wherefore also we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day on which Jesus rose from the dead. Evidently Barnabas and his friends also kept the 7th-day Sabbath.

Ignatius' Epistle to the Philadelphians, Chapter 8: "To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop." Really?

Origen (A.D. 185-255) says: "It is one of the marks of a perfect Christian to keep the Lord's Day (Sunday). Intimidation again. In other words, a Sabbath-keeping Christian is a 'less perfect' Christian.

Victorianus (A.D. 300) says: "On the Lord's Day we go forth to our bread with the giving of thanks. Lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ himself the Lord of the Sabbath in his body abolished."

Eusebius (A.D. 324) says: "They also observed the Sabbath and other discipline of the Jews just like them, but on the other hand, they also celebrate the Lord's day very much like us."

God (Eternal) says: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy . . ."

Jesus (Circa A.D. 30) says: "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

All of the above early church material was sent to me (in the mail) some 15 years ago by someone who hated the Sabbath and was trying to make a point. You will note from the dates of the quotes that the change from the Sabbath to Sunday was an extremely gradual one. It literally took centuries to accomplish and it is glaringly evident that this transition was NOT brought about by the act of Jesus' resurrection. Please note the significance of this fact.

Also worthy of note is that it was (consequently) the later generations who determined that the commandments and the Sabbath had been abolished at the Cross. By this time these people would have been caught up in the traditions of their day ...just as today. Then, as today, they too would have felt the need to justify having discarded the 7th-day Sabbath. And, you'll see quite clearly that they are indeed using their own justifications for having done so. There is not ONE piece of material that points to a command of God as being the reason for the change.

One final excerpt from a letter that I'd like to present (part of the material that was sent to me) is this one.

Dionysius of Corinth (A.D. 170) says: "Today we kept the Lord's holy day (Sunday) in which we read your letter."

The letter was addressed to the Church of Rome. The letter implies that ..."UNTIL today (A.D. 170) we kept God's Sabbath." It also implies that ..."we kept God's Sabbath (prior to your letter) UNTIL influenced (by the content of the letter) by the Church of Rome!"

 

[thessalonian]

I do believe Seventh Day Luther and Seventh Day Prebyterian is open if someone needs a job. If you make them health and wealth Lutheran or Presbyterian the money could be pretty good. You might even afford some fine duds, a rolex and a lear jet.

Well I'll be doggonned. There is a seventh day Lutheran Church in minnesota. haven't found a seventh day presby Church yet however. I am sure one could still do a Reformed SD Lutheran if he wanted. :

 

[farley]

Rather than trying to tell anyone what my take is on a passage, I'd like to seek others opinions on Hebrews 4:1-11, regarding the Sabbath under the NT. (Actually, I've yet to determine 'a take'. I'm still trying to get my fingers/arms/mind around the meaning here.)

Hebrews 4:1-11 ESV
(1) Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
(2) For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
(3) For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
(4) For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works."
(5) And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
(6) Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
(7) again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
(8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
(9) So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
(10) for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
(11) Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

To me, this seems to offer a totally fresh understanding of the Sabbath for all Christians!

Also, in an effort to learn something of SDA's...

SputnikBoy, I know less than nothing about SDA. I would like to ask a question of you, if you would allow me. I have no intention of seeking an argument, a debate or anything of such a nature. I am just seeking to learn here. However, if this is something that you would rather not get into at this time, I'll understand.

In my mind there are at least a couple of verses that would cause me concern about worshipping on Saturday.

At least twice we are given examples of assembling on Sunday...

Acts 20:7 ESV
(7) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

...and...

1 Corinthians 16:2 ESV
(2) On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

I would be interested to know the SDA's position regarding these verses.

Thanks in advance!

In Christ,

farley

 

[guibox]

Rather than trying to tell anyone what my take is on a passage, I'd like to seek others opinions on Hebrews 4:1-11, regarding the Sabbath under the NT. (Actually, I've yet to determine 'a take'. I'm still trying to get my fingers/arms/mind around the meaning here.)

Hebrews 4:1-11 ESV
(1) Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
(2) For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
(3) For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
(4) For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works."
(5) And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
(6) Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
(7) again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
(8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
(9) So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
(10) for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
(11) Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

To me, this seems to offer a totally fresh understanding of the Sabbath for all Christians!

Also, in an effort to learn something of SDA's...

SputnikBoy, I know less than nothing about SDA. I would like to ask a question of you, if you would allow me. I have no intention of seeking an argument, a debate or anything of such a nature. I am just seeking to learn here. However, if this is something that you would rather not get into at this time, I'll understand.

In my mind there are at least a couple of verses that would cause me concern about worshipping on Saturday.

At least twice we are given examples of assembling on Sunday...

Acts 20:7 ESV
(7) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

...and...

1 Corinthians 16:2 ESV
(2) On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

I would be interested to know the SDA's position regarding these verses.

Thanks in advance!

In Christ,

farley

Farley, as an SDA, I hope you'll permit me to address these texts...

As far as Hebrews, I can get you a detailed explanation on how this text is actually endorsing Sabbath keeping while linking it to a 'spiritual rest in Christ'.

Acts 20:7

From the context of this verse, we see that this was a special meeting and not a weekly occurence. Paul was departing the next morning and called for last minute instructions to the faithful. Based on the timeline, we see that they met on Saturday night and that Paul was leaving 'on the morrow'. That would mean that Paul was going on his trip on the Sunday. If Sunday was such a holy day, I highly doubt Paul would have undertaken such a journey.

Breaking bread' didn't mean having a communion service. It meant fellowship and we this occured perodically and sporadically within the Church and not on a specific day (Sunday) (Acts 2:42,46)

When we look at this, we see that this event was included in the narrative, not to further the understanding of Sunday as a holy day, but to highlight the miracle of Paul bringing Eutychus back from the dead.

1 Corinthians 16:2

One would like to make this say that there was a weekly service with a collection taken but that is not the case. First of all, Paul tells people to put the money away privately (at their own home), according to what they could afford.

Why?

"So when I COME"..Paul says, there would be some money for him.

Why the first day? Paul was merely passing through at the end of the week and wanted the money there. By the end of the week, that money could easily be spent on something else, hence the reason why the first day was ideal so that the money would be there when Paul came through (vs 5)

Nowhere is a Sunday service endorsed or commanded in any of these verses. Instead, this is eisegetical reasoning (taking preconceived ideas and putting them into the text, making the text say what you want it to say).

instead, we see clear teaching that Paul preached ONLY to the Gentiles weekly every Sabbath.(Acts 13:42-44,48,49)

 

[farley]

guibox,

Thank you for the response. Yes, you, as well as all, are welcome to respond to any and all comments I may post.

Whenever I am faced with a different view on Scripture, I am reminded of one of Paul's exhortations in Timothy...

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
(15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Now, let me go 'divide' your comments more fully!

Thanks again for your reply.

In Christ,

farley

 

[SputnikBoy]

Also, in an effort to learn something of SDA's...

SputnikBoy, I know less than nothing about SDA. I would like to ask a question of you, if you would allow me. I have no intention of seeking an argument, a debate or anything of such a nature. I am just seeking to learn here. However, if this is something that you would rather not get into at this time, I'll understand.

In my mind there are at least a couple of verses that would cause me concern about worshipping on Saturday.

At least twice we are given examples of assembling on Sunday...

At least a half-dozen times we are given examples of assembling on the (7th-day) Sabbath ...!

Acts 20:7 ESV
(7) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

...and...

1 Corinthians 16:2 ESV
(2) On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

I would be interested to know the SDA's position regarding these verses.

Thanks in advance!

In Christ,

farley

Thanks for the questions, Farley. As you've already acknowledged, guibox responded in my place and did a better job than I would have done anyway.

SDA aside (sorry, I don't speak for the church), as another fellow Christian looking on I just don't understand how anyone can possibly get 'a holy day' out of the two texts you presented. My question would be ...why do we even NEED to imply Sunday worship from the mere fact that Paul and the apostles simply got together to break bread together, to talk, to praise God, and to eat? If not for the fact that most Christians need to justify Sunday as a 'holy day' we would all but ignore those texts. But, let us look a little further. Acts 2:46 says:

"Everyday they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

Meeting and breaking bread was evidently an everyday event for Paul and his buddies ...it wasn't just a Sunday thing. Eating meals each day and 'hanging out' shouldn't give us any reason at all to make this into a pseudo religious occasion. I mean REALLY ...we have no ligitimate excuse to make a 'Sunday-thing' out of this at all ...none whatever.

Mainstream Christians are doing a great disservice to the scriptures in order to support Sunday as a 'holy day'. They wrongly assume that Sunday and the Sabbath was somehow being argued by Paul. Nothing could be further from the truth. We're told that Paul and the apostles customarily kept the Sabbath. Contrary to popular belief, Sunday was not even an issue to be debated in Paul's day. It had no religious relevance or significance to them at all. Sunday was not even in the equasion, it was a nonevent. No Christian was insisting that the keeping of Sunday as a 'holy day' was the way to go from now on. And for anyone to imply that they WERE doing so is not only ludicrous but it's also a lie. The only ones who may have given Sunday (the 1st-day) any form of recognition at all would have been the pagans. That's because they worshipped the sun on that day.

Sunday observance came long after the canons of scripture had been completed. In fact, it's only in relatively recent times that this subject of Sunday/the Sabbath has even become an issue. Maybe it's time to step up to the plate. While you are somewhat concerned about the 7th-day Sabbath, Farley, I am much more concerned about the fact that a 'holy day' was instituted without ANY authority from God. Does THAT not concern you or make you wonder ...at least a little? And, may I say that this subject has really got NOTHING to do with the SDA Church. It's solely a scriptural issue. We should therefore be able to debate this issue without the need for denominational involvement at all ...except, perhaps, the RCC.

 

[farley]

SputnikBoy and guibox,

Thanks for the responses!

I've yet to 'shake the trees and rake the leaves' looking at every facet of this issue. But, based on the few verses referenced, which I've looked at, it seems all passages are pretty vague. It's easy to see how both sides can draw their conclusions.

The OT spells it out "in stone". The NT doesn't.

Hopefully, the command was properly observed and is accurately reflected in the tradition that has been passed on thru the centuries.

Since Paul, in Acts 13, is dealing with Jews at their synagogue, it makes sense that this would happen on the Sabbath, because this is when he would find them gathered there.

Based on the passages that I've looked at so far, I can't get excited about letting go of one shakey premise, to grab, what appears at this time, an even more shakey premise.

In Christ,

farley

 

[guibox]

SputnikBoy and guibox,
Since Paul, in Acts 13, is dealing with Jews at their synagogue, it makes sense that this would happen on the Sabbath, because this is when he would find them gathered there.

Ah, but the gem if you read on is that the Jews left and Paul preached to the Gentiles and the Gentiles begged Paul to come back the next Sabbath to talk to them (Paul could easily have held the service on Sunday with just the Gentiles as some of our Sunday folk suggested occurred every week). And then in the next few verses it says 'and the next Sabbath the whole town came out to hear'

To me that is glaring evidence that the apostolic church DID NOT meet on Sunday's for worship services but honored the Sabbath with Paul at the helm.

Why waste his time on Sabbaths with the Jews? Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles! All he did was fight with the Jews. Why convince them on Sabbath?

 

[SputnikBoy]

SputnikBoy and guibox,

Thanks for the responses!

And thank you.

I've yet to 'shake the trees and rake the leaves' looking at every facet of this issue. But, based on the few verses referenced, which I've looked at, it seems all passages are pretty vague. It's easy to see how both sides can draw their conclusions.

But we need to realize that we're basing all of our conclusions on PRECONCEIVED notions of Sunday/Sabbath. If the day of worship had NOT been changed by man to Sunday, then there would be no vagueness about the Sabbath/Sunday to begin with. Sunday, as far back as any of us remember, has been the accepted day of worship by mainstream Christians. Most Christians don't know any different. And, even if they do, why fix what doesn't appear to be broken?

So, it's easy to see why so many would become suspicious or threatened when they're suddenly confronted with another group of Christians who are promoting another day. The other irritating side to that is, of course, the implication that mainstream Christians are therefore keeping the WRONG day. This, in turn creates a defensive stance and this is what we see occurring on these type forums.

The OT spells it out "in stone". The NT doesn't.

That's right. But had the scriptures continued on without the ambiguous writings of Paul, which day - Saturday or Sunday - would we now be keeping? Certainly not Sunday based on the Bible alone.

Hopefully, the command was properly observed and is accurately reflected in the tradition that has been passed on thru the centuries.

Since Paul, in Acts 13, is dealing with Jews at their synagogue, it makes sense that this would happen on the Sabbath, because this is when he would find them gathered there.

But again, you're viewing all of this through narrow 'Sunday perspective' spectacles. Can you not see that? You're offering excuses here as to why Paul would have been meeting with the Gentiles (and Jews) on the Sabbath instead of Sunday. Why Sunday? The Bible says nothing of this. The supposed practice of Sunday-keeping by the early Christians in Paul's day is no less than a fabrication. And, this fabrication has been instituted by mainstream Christianity (in fairly recent times) merely to justify Sunday. It really IS as simple as that.

Why can you simply not accept the fact that Paul kept the Sabbath, farley ...no ifs or buts? Again, it's only present-day Christians who are superimposing Sunday into Paul's writings. As long as we go by the scriptures, Paul had no more interest in Sunday as a 'holy day' than he did with the other 5 days of the week. And, WHO supposedly made Sunday a 'holy day' anyway ...Paul? Peter? someone else? More to the point ...why would someone even WANT to exchange one day for another in the first place ...even if they HAD the authority to do so? It doesn't make any sense. Read your Bible from start to finish. It just ain't there.

No, the matter of Sunday is not there to begin with. It's WE who are making this Sabbath/Sunday thing an issue ...not Paul. If he were here today I'll bet he would think we were all nuts!

Based on the passages that I've looked at so far, I can't get excited about letting go of one shakey premise, to grab, what appears at this time, an even more shakey premise.

The latter need not be a shaky premise, farley. It's simply (simply?) a matter of taking off the 'Sunday-perspective' glasses. I did and I know where you're coming from ...I really do.

In Christ,

Ditto

farley

Sputnik

 

[farley]

guibox and SputnikBoy,

C'mon guys, the more I peek into this issue the weaker your positions are starting to seem.

Looking for context, when I just include Acts20:6 with verse 7, things get a whole lot clearer to me.

Acts 20:6-7 KJV
(6) And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
(7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

I see this as Paul saying that they purposely waited, seven days, for the first day of the week (the Lord's day) to break bread (take communion), intending to depart the following day. If they had already worshipped on the Sabbath, the sixth day of their stay, why hesitate to travel on the first day, and why mention breaking bread if it were just a common meal.

Purposely mentioning the first day of the week, and breaking bread, here has to be significant. Otherwise, why aren't Paul's epistles sprinkled throughout with notations of the day of the week certain activies occured, and more mentioning of common meals.

If you do a search of the NT on "Lord's day", you'll get Rev. 1:10. The more studying you do on the "Lord's day" the more convinced you'll become that this doesn't mean the Sabbath. Surely, if the Sabbath was always seen as the day of worship throughout the first century, why would John, a Jew, use such a term as the "Lord's day"? When a Hebrew references the Sabbath, they say "Sabbath".

I'm probably gonna have to start charging you guys for all of this research I'm doing if the results keep turning out like this.

BTW, I totally agree with your perceptions on our predispositions based on our backgrounds. A Catholic once told me "Give us a child until s/he is five years old, and s/he is ours for life." I see this as applying to most everyone, regarding most everything.

In Christ,

farley

 

[SputnikBoy]

guibox and SputnikBoy,

C'mon guys, the more I peek into this issue the weaker your positions are starting to seem.

Please, farley ...first remove the blinders. Until you do you will keep looking to justify Sunday in everything you look at.

Do you remember Eric von Daniken of "Chariots of the Gods" fame? He set out to 'prove' that extra-terrestrials had come to earth in the dim distant past and had influenced the cultures of many people. Do you know how much 'evidence' von Daniken found? Tons of it! Do you know why? BECAUSE he set out to prove that extra-terrestrials had come to earth in the dim, distant past he found 'evidence' in EVERYTHING he looked at. Whether a carving, a cave painting, an artifact, a manuscript, WHATEVER he looked at he saw EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL. It mattered not to him if other, more legitimate, more authentic, more accurate, explanations and interpretations were available. He ignored those purely to 'prove' his point.

A similar phenomenon is going on here. Folks are trying to prove a ghost, something they believe to have existed but something that didn't. It's a fallacy that's been implanted into their brains from way back. They have the notion that someone (they don't know who, mind you) changed the Creation Sabbath to Sunday (for no earthly reason at all, mind you) ...even though NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT IN THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THIS!

But, they keep trying to prove it anyway with this flimsy text, with that flimsy text ... Like von Daniken, they're trying to prove a figment of their imagination. And, while they will never prove their point ...they won't give up either. Not until the blinders are removed and they can see the whole issue in perspective.

Looking for context, when I just include Acts20:6 with verse 7, things get a whole lot clearer to me.

Acts 20:6-7 KJV
(6) And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
(7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

I see this as Paul saying that they purposely waited, seven days, for the first day of the week (the Lord's day) to break bread (take communion), intending to depart the following day. If they had already worshipped on the Sabbath, the sixth day of their stay, why hesitate to travel on the first day, and why mention breaking bread if it were just a common meal.

Purposely mentioning the first day of the week, and breaking bread, here has to be significant. Otherwise, why aren't Paul's epistles sprinkled throughout with notations of the day of the week certain activies occured, and more mentioning of common meals.

So, farley, out of this relatively simple act you're willing to gamble that the one day that GOD set aside at Creation is now in the process of being changed by a group of Christians? My, you're easily swayed.

If you do a search of the NT on "Lord's day", you'll get Rev. 1:10.

I challenge you right now, farley, to get Sunday out of 'the Lord's Day' from scripture. C'mon, I'm waiting with my Bible at the ready.

The more studying you do on the "Lord's day" the more convinced you'll become that this doesn't mean the Sabbath.

I never said that it DOES mean the Sabbath. It COULD mean the Sabbath but the chances are that it's referring to 'the day of the Lord' (last-day events). One day it IS NOT referring to is Sunday. But, I'll be waiting to hear from you on that one.

Surely, if the Sabbath was always seen as the day of worship throughout the first century, why would John, a Jew, use such a term as the "Lord's day"? When a Hebrew references the Sabbath, they say "Sabbath".

Because John was 'in vision' and referring to events that would take place at the end of time, i.e. the Lord's Day. No cigar for Sunday-supporters on this one, sad to say!

I'm probably gonna have to start charging you guys for all of this research I'm doing if the results keep turning out like this.

Why? ...you're evidently not comprehending what you're researching. Remember, do the research WITHOUT the blinders! We really can't continue this debate effectively until you do. Do some research on WHO made Sunday a 'holy day'. Until you do you're flying blind.

BTW, I totally agree with your perceptions on our predispositions based on our backgrounds. A Catholic once told me "Give us a child until s/he is five years old, and s/he is ours for life." I see this as applying to most everyone, regarding most everything.

So, how come you're not applying this concept to yourself on this issue?

In Christ,

Ditto

farley

Sputnik

 

[thessalonian]

BTW, I totally agree with your perceptions on our predispositions based on our backgrounds. A Catholic once told me "Give us a child until s/he is five years old, and s/he is ours for life." I see this as applying to most everyone, regarding most everything.

Psalm 78
[1] Give ear, O my people, to my teaching;
incline your ears to the words of my mouth!
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable;
I will utter dark sayings from of old,
[3] things that we have heard and known,
that our fathers have told us.
[4] We will not hide them from their children,
but tell to the coming generation
the glorious deeds of the LORD, and his might,
and the wonders which he has wrought.

For 2000 years the Catholic faith has been taught to children.

 

[farley]

Blinders!?!?!?

If I were being any more objective here, I'd be biased the other way!

Quoted from a commentary regarding Rev. 1:10...

"On the Lord’s day - The word rendered here as “Lord’s†(κυριακῇ kuriakē), occurs only in this place and in 1Co_11:20, where it is applied to the Lord’s supper. It properly means “pertaining to the Lordâ€Â; and, so far as this word is concerned, it might mean a day “pertaining to the Lord,†in any sense, or for any reason; either because he claimed it as his own, and had set it apart for his own service, or because it was designed to commemorate some important event pertaining to him, or because it was observed in honor of him. It is clear:
(1) That this refers to some day which was distinguished from all other days of the week, and which would be sufficiently designated by the use of this term.
(2) that it was a day which was for some reason regarded as especially a day of the Lord, or especially devoted to him.
(3) it would further appear that this was a day particularly devoted to the Lord Jesus; for:
(a) that is the natural meaning of the word “Lord†as used in the New Testament (compare the notes on Act_1:24); and
(b) if the Jewish Sabbath were intended to be designated, the word “Sabbath†would have been used.
The term was used generally by the early Christians to denote the first day of the week. It occurs twice in the Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians (about 101 a.d.), who calls the Lord’s day “the queen and prince of all days.†Chrysostom (on Ps. 119) says, “It was called the Lord’s day because the Lord rose from the dead on that day.†Later fathers make a marked distinction between the “Sabbath†and the “Lord’s dayâ€Â; meaning by the former the Jewish “Sabbath,†or the seventh day of the week, and by the latter the first day of the week, kept holy by Christians. So Theodoret (Fab. Haeret. ii. 1), speaking of the Ebionites, says, “They keep the Sabbath according to the Jewish law, and sanctify the Lord’s day in like manner as we do†(Prof. Stuart). The strong probability is, that the name was given to this day in honor of the Lord Jesus, and because he rose on that day from the dead. No one can doubt that it was an appellation given to the first day of the week; and the passage, therefore, proves:
(1) that that day was thus early distinguished in some special manner, so that the mere mention of it would be sufficient to identify it in the minds of those to whom the apostle wrote;
(2) that it was in some sense regarded as devoted to the Lord Jesus, or was designed in some way to commemorate what he had done; and,
(3) that if this book were written by the apostle John, the observance of that day has the apostolic sanction. He had manifestly, in accordance with a prevailing custom, set apart this day in honor of the Lord Jesus. Though alone, he was engaged on that day in acts of devotion. Though far away from the sanctuary, he enjoyed what all Christians hope to enjoy on such a day of rest, and what not a few do in fact enjoy in its observance. We may remark, in view of this statement:
(a) that when away from the sanctuary, and deprived of its privileges, we should nevertheless not fail to observe the Christian Sabbath. If on a bed of sickness, if in a land of strangers, if on the deep, if in a foreign clime, if on a lonely island, as John was, where we have none of the advantages of public worship, we should yet honor the Sabbath. We should worship God alone, if we have none to unite with us; we should show to those around us, if we are with strangers, by our dress and our conversation, by a serious and devent manner, by abstinence from labor, and by a resting from travel, that we devoutly regard this day as set apart for God.
(b) We may expect, in such circumstances, and with such a devout observance of the day, that God will meet with us and bless us. It was on a lonely island, far away from the sanctuary and from the society of Christian friends, that the Saviour met “the beloved disciple,†and we may trust it will be so with us. For on such a desert island, in a lonely forest, on the deep, or amid strangers in a foreign land, he can as easily meet us as in the sanctuary where we have been accustomed to worship, and when surrounded by all the privileges of a Christian land. No man, at home or abroad, among friends or strangers, enjoying the privileges of the sanctuary, or deprived of those privileges, ever kept the Christian Sabbath in a devout manner without profit to his own soul; and, when deprived of the privileges of public worship, the visitations of the Saviour to the soul may be more than a compensation for all our privations. Who would not be willing to be banished to a lonely island like Patmos, if he might enjoy such a glorious vision of the Redeemer as John was favored with there?"

Since definitive Scripture is sorely lacking on this issue, what better references than the writings of early Christians?

Please, throw some of your grist into this mill and let's see what results!

In Christ,

farley