Why Two Sickles?

[Cornelius]

Something else that is interesting.

OK: Heaven means following the spirit. Walking in the Spirit. Having authority in Christ.
"Earth" means walking in the flesh.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

Earth = flesh
Sea = people nations and tongues

Rev 13:1 And he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

[Cornelius]

OK, last one, I am off to bed now. Its after midnight in Africa.

If "earth" means flesh.............in type and shadow, these people were overcome by their flesh. (the flesh swallowed them) ( I am not saying that the real earth did not open , but there is a second meaning here too )

Num 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

Same thing that happened to Esau Heb 12:16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one mess of meat (flesh) sold his own birthright.

We are warned through these types and shadows not to "live on the earth" where the fleshlife will swallow us . Also we must not give up our birthright as sons of God, for the flesh, like Esau did. Because in the tribulation, Satan is coming to those who "live on the earth" and are in the "sea". But he cannot touch those who are "seated in heaven". Those have authority over him and his demons. The devil is under the feet of those who "overcometh"

I will stop now, but this trail can lead to many other types and shadows. I know that WW loves them too.

blessings
C

 

[researcher]

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

14:17-20.......... gather the clusters of the vine of the earth;


One vine is from above (Jesus and all who are "in Christ")) and the other is from the earth ( Harlot church)


Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; (Vine of the earth) I am from above: (True vine) ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Both bring forth fruit. One unto eternal life, the other to damnation and wrath.

Who else is a "her" in the Bible? Answer: The Harlot.(she is a vine from the earth)
gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe

The vine of the earth (land) was Jerusalem 70AD.

This happened
Rev 14:19 And the angel cast his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city,

This happened
Rev 11:2 And the court which is without the temple leave without, and measure it not; for it hath been given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

And this happened
Mat 24:2 But he answered and said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

They were all the same thing. Jerusalem, 70AD. ;)

 

[whirlwind]

OK, last one, I am off to bed now. Its after midnight in Africa.

If "earth" means flesh.............in type and shadow, these people were overcome by their flesh. (the flesh swallowed them) ( I am not saying that the real earth did not open , but there is a second meaning here too )

Num 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

Same thing that happened to Esau Heb 12:16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one mess of meat (flesh) sold his own birthright.

We are warned through these types and shadows not to "live on the earth" where the fleshlife will swallow us . Also we must not give up our birthright as sons of God, for the flesh, like Esau did. Because in the tribulation, Satan is coming to those who "live on the earth" and are in the "sea". But he cannot touch those who are "seated in heaven". Those have authority over him and his demons. The devil is under the feet of those who "overcometh"

I will stop now, but this trail can lead to many other types and shadows. I know that WW loves them too.

blessings
C

Yes...I do love them. They bring such understanding.

Your quote of [Number 16:32] where "the earth opened it's mouth," just brought to mind a verse I never understood.....

Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

If earth is flesh then the flesh of those on earth "helped the woman." That begs the question...Is this woman the same woman (Israel) that Satan tries to flood with deception...or, is this the other woman, the harlot that is being helped? Is "the earth" opening her mouth the harlot? I always wondered how the earth could help Israel by absorbing lies. This has to be the "other woman," the harlot, who is helped by flesh taking in his lies. It helps her as it makes her stronger...increases her yield.

 

[whirlwind]

I meant to point something out in the above post. C wrote....

But he cannot touch those who are "seated in heaven". Those have authority over him and his demons. The devil is under the feet of those who "overcometh"

In previous posts in this thread Ret and I discussed His "feet" being us...the witnesses. The above comment confirmed this. Regarding the devil, the serpent...we who have Christ in us and overcome are the feet the devil is under as we will "bruise his head," ....

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel."

I just realized what bruise to the head that will be?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

[Ret]

I meant to point something out in the above post. C wrote....

But he cannot touch those who are "seated in heaven". Those have authority over him and his demons. The devil is under the feet of those who "overcometh"

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel."

I just realized what bruise to the head that will be?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

.... :amen .... Quite a thought!

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. ASV

Prov 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way; But Jehovah directeth his steps. ASV

 

[Cornelius]

If earth is flesh then the flesh of those on earth "helped the woman." That begs the question...Is this woman the same woman (Israel) that Satan tries to flood with deception...or, is this the other woman, the harlot that is being helped? Is "the earth" opening her mouth the harlot? I always wondered how the earth could help Israel by absorbing lies. This has to be the "other woman," the harlot, who is helped by flesh taking in his lies. It helps her as it makes her stronger...increases her yield. [/b]

Or the other woman, the Bride, Rev 12 said , just brought forth the man child.

This would agree with what Jesus said in John 16:

The disciples asked: When will we see you again ?
Jesus answered: When the woman (YOU) gives birth to a man child and your sorrow comes to an end.


Joh 16:19 Jesus perceived that they were desirous to ask him, and he said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves concerning this, that I said, A little while, and ye behold me not, and again a little while, and ye shall see me?
Joh 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but when she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for the joy that a man is born into the world.
Joh 16:22 And ye therefore now have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no one taketh away from you.

Can you see that Jesus is describing Rev 12 here to the disciples?

 

[Cornelius]

whirlwind wrote:
If earth is flesh then the flesh of those on earth "helped the woman." That begs the question...Is this woman the same woman (Israel) that Satan tries to flood with deception...or, is this the other woman, the harlot that is being helped? Is "the earth" opening her mouth the harlot? I always wondered how the earth could help Israel by absorbing lies. This has to be the "other woman," the harlot, who is helped by flesh taking in his lies. It helps her as it makes her stronger...increases her yield. [/b]

OK here is my understanding of it

What do we know:

1) The Dragon wants to destroy the man child (Similar to when Jesus (also a Man Child ) were seeked by Herod, the Dragon of that day, to destroy Him )
2) The woman (Church) flees into the wilderness (Tribulation) where God has prepared a place of safety for her.
3) She get nourished for three and a half years (with the Word without the leaven of man) (Just like Jesus taught His disciples for that time, while He was the Man Child )
4) The Man Child ministry (First Fruits/Five fold ministry/overcomers etc) gets their authority to rule (caught up to the throne/ He that overcometh will rule the nation/will sit in the throne with Jesus)


Now lets look at that scripture with the water:


Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth,(This is what Jesus saw as a future event, and He told His disciples about it prophetically ) he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a river, (Water also means "words" or "Word" in the Scriptures, so Satan is trying to catch the woman (church) with words, but it seems here that the "earth" (fleshly people) are helping her.) that he might cause her to be carried away by the stream.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, (That is what the Bible says, is that the "earth" (unsaved) helps the church at some critical moment in the future) and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Now look, here we can see that she is the church, because as we know, the Bride has "virgins" and "Guests " at the wedding feast (believers who are not in the Bride) They also hold to the "testimony of Jesus" and they are the "seed" of the woman.(Spiritual offspring is called "seed" , just like the Sower sowed the seed which is the Word that produces the offspring (seed) of God .It produces "sons of God )

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that

Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

I will summarize in the next post

 

[Cornelius]

(Man child, means : man because they are fully matured Christians, and "child" because they are a small group ) The man child ministry are the first to manifest this scripture:

Eph 4:13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;

We have not seen this yet, but we will soon.




Rev 12 is saying in normal language:

A time will come where the church will produce its first fruit. A small group will overcome first and they will manifest Christ fully (Mat 13:8 and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. ) They will again preach the Word without leaven.(Eph 4:14 ) At that time, Satan will rise up in his body of unbelievers and make an effort to destroy this work of God in the church (Bride), but the population of Earth will not help to do this as he expected they would. The church will be safe and protected as we go into the great Tribulation.

However, Satan will go after those who did not manage to be in the Bride.(those who also hold to the testimony of Jesus, her seed. The virgins and guests.). During this time, through false doctrine, a third of Christianity looses their authority and "fall to earth" to join the Harlot church.

 

[whirlwind]

I meant to point something out in the above post. C wrote....

But he cannot touch those who are "seated in heaven". Those have authority over him and his demons. The devil is under the feet of those who "overcometh"

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel."

I just realized what bruise to the head that will be?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

.... :amen .... Quite a thought!

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. ASV

Prov 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way; But Jehovah directeth his steps. ASV

You are terrific at finding Scriptures that are the second, third and fourth witness to other Scripture. To me, they are our Father speaking to us saying....YES, you got it! Seeing the quote you gave puts a big smile on my face. 2

Reading the Proverbs quote about Him directing our steps made me think of the one you mentioned last week......

Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

 

[whirlwind]

(Man child, means : man because they are fully matured Christians, and "child" because they are a small group ) The man child ministry are the first to manifest this scripture:

Eph 4:13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;

We have not seen this yet, but we will soon.




Rev 12 is saying in normal language:

A time will come where the church will produce its first fruit. A small group will overcome first and they will manifest Christ fully (Mat 13:8 and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. ) They will again preach the Word without leaven.(Eph 4:14 ) At that time, Satan will rise up in his body of unbelievers and make an effort to destroy this work of God in the church (Bride), but the population of Earth will not help to do this as he expected they would. The church will be safe and protected as we go into the great Tribulation.

However, Satan will go after those who did not manage to be in the Bride.(those who also hold to the testimony of Jesus, her seed. The virgins and guests.). During this time, through false doctrine, a third of Christianity looses their authority and "fall to earth" to join the Harlot church.

From your previous post....

Now look, here we can see that she is the church, because as we know, the Bride has "virgins" and "Guests " at the wedding feast (believers who are not in the Bride) They also hold to the "testimony of Jesus" and they are the "seed" of the woman.(Spiritual offspring is called "seed" , just like the Sower sowed the seed which is the Word that produces the offspring (seed) of God .It produces "sons of God )

I agree with this C but, to me, it still leaves the question unanswered....how does that help the woman? How does the earth help the woman by swallowing the flood if the woman taking in the deception is Israel/the church? The only possibility I see of this "helping the woman," if she is indeed Israel, would be that some are to be blinded until Gentiles are brought in. But, that is to help the Gentiles....not necessarily the woman.

I believe the passage is teaching us of the "two women." It is the other woman, the harlot that is helped by the flood from Satan's mouth. As mention of the two beasts are intermingled in passages perhaps the two women are also mixed in [Revelation 12:12] and we must separate them.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

From your previous post.....

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a river, (Water also means "words" or "Word" in the Scriptures, so Satan is trying to catch the woman (church) with words, but it seems here that the "earth" (fleshly people) are helping her.) that he might cause her to be carried away by the stream.

Yes, I see water as words. That is the flood that comes from the mouth of Satan but I don't see that as helping her...it does help the other woman though.

Revelation 9:18-19 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads; and with them they do hurt.

There is the tail you taught of that "drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth," [Revelation 12:4].

It is funny that you should mention a river as words for I have been drawn to the Biblical rivers this past week.

Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

One of the lands the river Pison surrounded was good, full of gold, bdellium and the onyx stone. Not so with the other rivers. In types...His children are gold, bdellium and onyx. :yes Are those "rivers"...rivers of words too? The good and the bad going out to the world.

I'm not sure this has any connection but I just noticed ...."like unto serpents, and had heads" and the rivers of Eden "became into four heads." In describing rivers they often are compared to serpents, or snakes, twisting their way over the land.

 

[Ret]

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth,(This is what Jesus saw as a future event, and He told His disciples about it prophetically ) he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Re-visiting TIME, TIMES, and Half a TIME before going on!

TIME...

Galatians 4:2-3
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day [the time] appointed of the father.
3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: ASV

TIMES....

Ephesians 1:9-10
9 making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
10 unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, ASV

Half a TIME or Dividing of TIME

Daniel 12:7
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces [shattering] the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. ASV

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. ASV

Conclusion:

TIME....the children of God are under guardians and stewards, tutors and govenors

TIMES....the summing up of all things IN CHRIST
...all things in the heavens, [believe - the love of God]
...all things upon the earth [time/wrath/law - unbelief - all things bound up with the flesh]

Half a TIME of Dividing of TIME
...in the believer, the heavenly [love of God] and the earthly [lust, pride, arrogance] separated!
...thoughts and intents of the heart are disclosed, no longer can one cling to earthly things or hide.
...if we are living in TIME, we will endure the wrath of God, which comes because law requires it.

 

[Cornelius]

Cannot be the harlot that is helped because the woman spoken of here , her seed has the testimony of Jesus. Plus its the same woman that gives birth to the man child (Israel does not do that, the church does that according to Jesus in John 16) Neither the Harlot, nor Israel gives birth to the man child. The church does.
It simple means that not all unsaved people are going to want to kill you in the trib just because they OWO makes you an outlaw. Some would be like those people who hid Ann Frank during the war. They would not agree with the new laws against Christians, even though they are not Christians. Makes sense, because you know that its possible and that we do find people like that, No matter what words (water) will be spoken against us, you will always get some help from a kind unsaved person. Not all are boiling over with evil.

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: (Virgins and guests and "friends of the Groom" )

 

[whirlwind]

Cannot be the harlot that is helped because the woman spoken of here , her seed has the testimony of Jesus. Plus its the same woman that gives birth to the man child (Israel does not do that, the church does that according to Jesus in John 16) Neither the Harlot, nor Israel gives birth to the man child. The church does.
It simple means that not all unsaved people are going to want to kill you in the trib just because they OWO makes you an outlaw. Some would be like those people who hid Ann Frank during the war. They would not agree with the new laws against Christians, even though they are not Christians. Makes sense, because you know that its possible and that we do find people like that, No matter what words (water) will be spoken against us, you will always get some help from a kind unsaved person. Not all are boiling over with evil.

I agree that "not all are boiling over with evil."

I see Israel as the church, as the woman. Not the present nation of Israel but His family Israel.

As far as the earth helping the woman, the church....I don't see that verse meaning that. There seems to be a direct connection within that verse between the earth digesting his deception and that act helping the woman. If that is what it is saying, I don't see how believing his lies helps the woman, if the woman is the church.

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: (Virgins and guests and "friends of the Groom" )

There you have two women. One the earth helped and one the dragon was wroth with (because she didn't swallow his lies?) Consider the following....it mentions your thought of the wedding but also shows there are two women connected with the flood from Satan.

Matthew 24:38-41 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[whirlwind]

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth,(This is what Jesus saw as a future event, and He told His disciples about it prophetically ) he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Re-visiting TIME, TIMES, and Half a TIME before going on!

TIME...

Galatians 4:2-3
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day [the time] appointed of the father.
3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: ASV

TIMES....

Ephesians 1:9-10
9 making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
10 unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, ASV

Half a TIME or Dividing of TIME

Daniel 12:7
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces [shattering] the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. ASV

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. ASV

Conclusion:

TIME....the children of God are under guardians and stewards, tutors and govenors

TIMES....the summing up of all things IN CHRIST
...all things in the heavens, [believe - the love of God]
...all things upon the earth [time/wrath/law - unbelief - all things bound up with the flesh]

Half a TIME of Dividing of TIME
...in the believer, the heavenly [love of God] and the earthly [lust, pride, arrogance] separated!
...thoughts and intents of the heart are disclosed, no longer can one cling to earthly things or hide.
...if we are living in TIME, we will endure the wrath of God, which comes because law requires it.

I see the time of no longer being under tutors and guardians as....

John 14:26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

All things He said to us are written....Behold, I have foretold you all things. [Mark 13:23]

The Holy Spirit is teaching us through His Word by opening revelations as we study, as well as touching us through others...on forums such as this one. And...I thank you, C and others for that contact.

 

[Ret]

Cannot be the harlot that is helped because the woman spoken of here , her seed has the testimony of Jesus. Plus its the same woman that gives birth to the man child (Israel does not do that, the church does that according to Jesus in John 16) Neither the Harlot, nor Israel gives birth to the man child. The church does.

Ezek 16:
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations;

3 and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto Jerusalem: Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of the Canaanite; the Amorite was thy father, and thy mother was a Hittite.

12 And I put a ring upon thy nose, and ear-rings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thy head.

13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil; and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper unto royal estate. ASV

Ezekiel paints Jerusalem with all her abominations to be like the 'harlot woman' in Rev 18:16.17. Then God brings the harlot in Ezekiel to be stoned and burned...Eze 16:40,41 (God is dividing the heavenly from the earthly in HIS BRIDE to be. But first the harlot Jerusalem - that NOW IS - needs to be purified seven times before she is FIT to be a WITNESS representing the 'NEW JERUSALEM' which is from ABOVE)

Hosea 1:2
2 When Jehovah spake at the first by Hosea, Jehovah said unto Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredom and children of whoredom; for the land doth commit great whoredom, (departing) from Jehovah. ASV

As much as the scriptures say about harlotry, it is more than just a physical woman - this is given to reveal that the 'spirit of harlotry' Hos 4:12 & 5:4 exist in all His elect children from 'birth' ...Eze 16:3

Yes... a bit hard to understand. The more I read these words, the more clear the picture.
Hopefully your study is more clear as well!

 

[Ret]

I see the time of no longer being under tutors and guardians as....

John 14:26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

All things He said to us are written....Behold, I have foretold you all things. [Mark 13:23]

The Holy Spirit is teaching us through His Word by opening revelations as we study, as well as touching us through others...on forums such as this one. And...I thank you, C and others for that contact.

Most important within the 'DIVIDING of TIME' when we are 'WITNESS' representing the 'New Jerusalem' that is above. Though I also believe the Holy Ghost, is given under TIME and TIMES, within the restraints of 'time/wrath/law'. In TIME & TIMES we have smaller issues, but trials just the same.

One note to clarify: I believe TIME, TIMES, and Half a TIME, is a principal God has set in place that is used either individually or collectively as with a community, a church or a nation.

WW this a worthy study. I consider it a priviledge when God gives me to re-study and re-think about these things every time someone wants to study them from the scriptures...Thank you!

 

[whirlwind]

Discussing the woman or two women that the earth helped during her/their time in the wilderness, or time, times and half a time, or three and one half years, brought another thread to mind.

Luke 4:25-27 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land. But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarapta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus (Elisha) the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian."


There are many widows in Israel (God's chosen people...Christian and Jew, not the land of Israel) as the one they love, their husband, was crucified. However, many are and will fall for Satan's deception and instead of being the widow of Christ, (the wife of Christ), as they believe themselves to be, will fall into adultry/idolatry with Satan. In the "days of Elias," which I believe is now, he doesn't come to save everyone as Elisha isn't sent to cleanse everyone. Many of the widows will fall for the deception and those saved and cleansed during their historical, earthly time, were Gentiles...of Sidon and Syria. Is that a type for what will be, is now, during their spiritual days?

There we have a picture of two types during that period of time. One will not be saved or cleansed and one will....

Malachi 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

The same event Luke wrote of....days of Elias, heaven being shut for three and one half years is repeated in......

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (6) These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The "great famine" in the land during that time is...

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.


When Jesus spoke the words about some of those "widows," followers of God, not being saved or cleansed.......

Luke 4:28-30 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
And rose up, and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast Him down headlong. But He passing through the midst of them went His way.

The religious folks, "all they in the synagogue," (became/are and will become) angry at hearing truth and "thrust Him out of the city." This is our example. He is in us and we too will be thrust out. There are two things that stand out to me in [Luke 4:28-30]. First, notice that those that thrust Him out have "their city." This is not our city! Two....He passed right through them..and went His way!

That to me is another example of two types I believe are shown in Revelation 12:15-16, during the time of the flood. One is the woman that swallows the deception and the other....God's elect.

 

[Cornelius]

WW, in Revelation 12, it only speaks of one woman. (although she is mentioned more than ones as "the woman" )

If you are speaking about spiritual Israel then I agree, but its better on a forum to maybe just say "church" because then people will not get confused (by now many are anyway LOL )

Two woman grinding: Here we have the Bride and the Harlot (that is correct) (grinding flour, making bread. One without leaven and the other with leaven)
Two men in the field : Body of Christ and body of antichrist. Field = world

Mat 13:38 and the field is the world;

 

[Cornelius]

As soon as Jesus was baptized in water and Spirit He was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, to be tempted of the Devil (Mt. 3:16; 4:1). This is our example, and it is supposed to be the normal Christian life. Abiding in Christ is to walk as He walked (1 Jn. 1:6). However, the experience of the majority is that we must be driven as goats, by the beast, into the wilderness trial like the woman in Revelation 12:4, 6, 13, 14. God's people are like the Israelites who would rather serve the Egyptians (old man) in Egypt (world: Ex. 14:10-12), than sacrifice their old life in the wilderness (Ex. 7:16). The god of this world wants us to make a worldly sacrifice in Egypt (Ex. 8:25) like Cain's sacrifice, which was from the earth and not acceptable to God (Gen. 4:2-5). The wilderness sacrifice is a burnt offering of fleshly dependency, fleshly ability and fleshly ingenuity. Sacrificing these and putting your trust completely in God is an abomination to the Egyptians (world: Ex. 8:26). That's why the Israelites had to be driven into the wilderness by Pharaoh's army. The Lord showed me many years ago that it pleased Him for us to be led to the wilderness willingly and there to learn that the arm of the flesh was a hindrance to growing in the ways of God (Jer. 17:5-8). God doesn't want your help to save you, heal you, deliver you, provide for you, or protect you. He wants your faith.

The wilderness symbolizes the place where there is no help from man. Self has been our goal and savior but we must repent, for there must be no other god before the true God. Self-sufficiency has always brought a curse.

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