Why was Jesus Baptized in water and ....Holy Spirit?

[Mitspa]

LOL Mitspa has a thread about King David

Jesus came as a Rabbi to the Jews and left as High Priest

David the shepard boy became King David

David in Hebrew is "beloved by God"

I see what you are saying! Although I will have to meditate upon the pictures, please continue to lay it all out as God reveals it to you, Beloved one

 

[smaller]

smaller, thank you for participanting in this thread. I kept waiting for you. I actually copied your post into a file doc. so that I can go through it later.

I agree with everything you said if I understood you correctly.

This is an facet that I am considering but haven't truly asked the Holy Spirit for guidance. So I share it only as what it is, a consideration.

Before Jesus' sacrifice He needed to be declared as the High Priest, of the order of Melchizadek.

Indeed. The Father and The Son are bound by their own inviolable and unchanging OATH upon which all things are based. What they/as One have sworn to is and will forever be the way things are going to be. It is termed immutable (unchanging) counsel for a reason. Heb. 6:15-17.

I find in Exodus a ceremony that was done for this reason of the priesthood. It's in Ex. 29. It said to the people that is was their priest, anointed and ordained by God. The water and the oil (Holy Spirit). "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

Yes, this coming was promised. The Jews just missed it. But to our benefits. They were so bent on upholding certain matters on G_D they did not see how God Himself could be A MAN. Even though the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent was in fact an early promise in the text.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This same SEED, singular was again shown with Abraham's offspring Isaac, the son of PROMISE. Paul writes about this matter at length associating that SEED (first the natural man, Isaac) being a showing of the Spiritual Man, Jesus, God Himself in flesh.

Abraham is not only the father of fleshly Jews, but also of faithful christians. Those who have not intimately followed his steps as well as the other forefathers of faith would do themselves well to 'do so.' Natural men will only understand Abraham naturally. But there are other trails to follow with all of them. Those matters speak not only to and of Christ, but to all of us as well.

Jesus advised us that man shall live by every Word of God, taken right out of the old testament scriptures. It's good to pay attention to every Word. It's much harder to find life in every Word.

The Jews through their traditions would have had an understanding of what had happened. Those yeilding themselves to the Holy Spirit would understand but the stiff-necked religious and proud rabbis and priest would be insulted.
He came as a Rabbi, He left as the High Priest.

It is necessary to understand that what happened to them is no different than what happens to us. If you understand what I cited in my last post near the bottom you should not see them as just the people as that is not the case. There was in fact more going on on the inside than what many can see. And that started in the Garden and has extended to every person ever since. And this too is a part of baptism.

He fulfilled the righteous law of God, in His baptisim, in His sacrific as the Lamb of God.

BaptismS and baptism are very interesting subjects. They are worth far more than the little packages we are sold in the segmented doctrinal marketplaces.

Just my thoughts.

God has never changed.

Very very true.

s

 

[heymikey80]

Some will view water baptism as their external obedience matter i.e. they themselves perform X and then they attach some benefit unto themselves for their action.

The allegorical arena is much more satisfying. Everything that men and women of God did in the text contains allegorical Spiritual matters that are patterned and repetitive and quite simple to perceive with some basic 'internal' groundwork. But that door to understanding is closed Divinely and on purpose to many and will remain that way.

There are admittedly more ways to model this, and looking into the covenant model, I'm forced to add something to what is already a great description of the two views most prevalent in modern times.

Today we often take a reductionary argument, assuming that "signs" like Baptism and the Supper were symbols. This avoided the argument that the signs are "miraculous", and so to some extent there was an advantage to this view. But it pushed the pendulum too far in another direction.

A "sign" is something you do on a contract. It's a symbol, yes. But it's also more than a symbol. It calls account for those imposing the sign. It makes promises to those receiving the contract. And ... a covenant is a form of a contract -- much more imposing and relational than a contract, yes. But it calls the parties to account as well.

The covenant with God has "signs" that work in much the same way as "signing" a contract. Baptism is applied to us -- symbolizing, yes, the covenant is to apply to us. but it's God's instituted sign -- that is, God is signing the covenant to ensure His promise to us.

 

[Mitspa]

There are admittedly more ways to model this, and looking into the covenant model, I'm forced to add something to what is already a great description of the two views most prevalent in modern times.

Today we often take a reductionary argument, assuming that "signs" like Baptism and the Supper were symbols. This avoided the argument that the signs are "miraculous", and so to some extent there was an advantage to this view. But it pushed the pendulum too far in another direction.

A "sign" is something you do on a contract. It's a symbol, yes. But it's also more than a symbol. It calls account for those imposing the sign. It makes promises to those receiving the contract. And ... a covenant is a form of a contract -- much more imposing and relational than a contract, yes. But it calls the parties to account as well.

The covenant with God has "signs" that work in much the same way as "signing" a contract. Baptism is applied to us -- symbolizing, yes, the covenant is to apply to us. but it's God's instituted sign -- that is, God is signing the covenant to ensure His promise to us.

wow! good stuff, just planted a new tree of thought in my brain about some things! God Bless you - Mitspa

 

[Sparkey]

Re: Elementary Teachings of Christ

In Hebrews 6:1,2 the author wrote: "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." He listed six teachings (doctrines), described them as "elementary", and chastised those not mature enough to teach them to others [Hebrews 5:11-6:12].

The Symbolic Nature of Water

The Bible says, "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water" [Hebrews 10:22]. The "pure water" mentioned here is symbolic, referring to the days when Israelite priests were required to wash with water before ministering in the Tabernacle [Exodus 30:17-21]. God requires clean hands and a pure heart from those who partake in His holiness. "Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? Or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully" [Psalm 24:3-4]. Believers are sanctified and cleansed "with the washing of water by the word" [Ephesians 5:26]. Jesus reinforced this truth when He said, "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" [John 15:3].

To further illustrate this point, Ezekiel likens sprinkling of water to the spiritual cleansing of a person's heart. God said, "For I will take you from among the heathen ... and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you ... and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them"
[Ezekiel 36:24-27].

Indeed, the cleansing work of God unto salvation is a spiritual baptism which takes place in our hearts. God draws us to Himself, we respond by repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, He forgives and cleanses us of all sin, and saves us! "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" [I Peter 3:21]. Thus, it is through Christ's resurrection that we have the hope of salvation, because as Paul said, if Christ be not resurrected, then our faith is in vain [I Corinthians 15:14].​

___________________________________________
As a side note, it is of interest to look at how the error of the Pharisees in this matter. The Glory of God had been absent from the Temple for more than 400 years and they thought that they understood why. Certainly God wanted to keep His word and deliver the kingdom to Israel, they reasoned. What could possibly prevent him? It was sin. Men did not keep the commandments and they sought to keep their end of the bargain so well that their obedience to the law would force God to act. Of course, today we know that this approach isn't enough.

"But the Pharisee, noticing that Jesus did not first wash before the meal, was surprised." [LUKE 11:38]
The word translated "wash" is Greek baptizo, which means "dip, immerse" or, in the middle voice, "dip oneself, wash," and is used of Jewish ritual washings as well as of baptism.

The Pharisees took ritual cleansings very seriously. For example, at the wedding at Cana that Jesus attended, six stone water jars were present "the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons" [John 2:6].

We teach our children to wash their hands thoroughly before eating in order to prevent diseases. But the Pharisees didn't wash in order to get rid of germs. They washed as required by the "tradition of the elders" in order to cleanse their hands from spiritual defilement that might be taken into the body [Mark 7:3, 5]. The actual washing didn't involve soap or scrubbing, but rather dribbling some water over the hands. It was an act of spiritual cleansing, not physical cleansing.

Isaiah prophesied of them saying, "I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way [that was] not good...Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These [are] a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day." - [Isaiah 65:2, 5 KJV]. The Pharisees were characterized by a rigid adherence to ritual observance of the letter of the law (rather than the spirit of the law which was encouraged by Jesus). Compare the attitude of the Pharisees and their ritual washings to that of what was taught by Jesus concerning the washing of feet. The true way is clearly that of the humble servant whose concern is for others.

 

[Sparkey]

Re: Elementary Teachings of Christ

In Hebrews 6:1,2 the author wrote: "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." He listed six teachings (doctrines), described them as "elementary", and chastised those not mature enough to teach them to others (Hebrews 5:11-6:12).

Let us then consider examples of Baptism in our discussion.
Noah's "Baptism"

Noah was saved by believing God (Faith) and by the Ark which is symbolic of our being in Christ. "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water" -[I Peter 3:20; also see I Peter 2:5]. Because of Noah's faith, he became an "heir of the righteousness which is by faith" -[Hebrews 11:7] and was saved. The wickedness of Noah's generation will be seen again on the earth before Christ returns [Luke 17:26-27], and those who are not in Christ will perish.​

The "Baptism of Moses"

Paul tells us, "All our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ" (I Corinthians 10:1-4)

They were spiritually baptized by passing through the Red Sea and following the cloud (the presence of Jehovah) by faith. "By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned" [Hebrews 11:29]. Those of Israel whose faith endured through the wilderness tests (Joshua, Caleb, and the younger generation) inherited the Promised Land.

Leaving the captivity of Egypt is symbolic of following after God and being set free from sin. The journey through the Red Sea involved a "baptism" of sorts that culminated in their crossing the Jordan into the land of Promise.​

 

[smaller]

Re: Elementary Teachings of Christ

Leaving the captivity of Egypt is symbolic

Very good sighting. None of those physical events contain 'literal only' understandings.

The entry of Israel into Egypt to begin with is also symbolic.

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Every father of faith had a sojourn in Egypt, Even Jesus:

Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

This is a fact of the call of every son.

of following after God and being set free from sin. The journey through the Red Sea involved a "baptism" of sorts that culminated in their crossing the Jordan into the land of Promise.

Again, brilliant.

In that baptism we see a DIVISION of the WATERS.

The DIVISION that spared them their lives also DESTROYED their enemies.

They swayed neither to the right nor to the left as a Divine Showing of Spiritual Matters.

The first thing that happened to Jesus post baptism also transpires with all sons. They are led by the Spirit into TEMPTATION.

Few teach this aspect of 'baptism.' If we walk as He walked, it is good to pay attention to what happened to Him, as the same steps will be covered again and again. Just as they also happened with the fathers of faith.

s

 

[Mitspa]

God bless you Sparrowhawke! dont want to take away from your post but just had to say how helpful your understanding is and can be to the body of Christ!

Mitspa

 

[Sparkey]

Re: Elementary Teachings of Christ

In Hebrews 6:1,2 the author wrote: "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." He listed six teachings (doctrines), described them as "elementary", and chastised those not mature enough to teach them to others [Hebrews 5:11-6:12].

Let's look at some other examples of water baptism in the New Testament:

• John the Baptist baptized those who would repent [Mark 1:5].
• On the day of Pentecost, 3,000 new believers were baptized [Acts 2:41].
• The Samaritans that believed were baptized [Acts 8:12].
• Paul was baptized three days after he met Jesus on the road to Damascus [Acts 9:18].
• Cornelius and some other Gentiles were baptized [Acts 10:47].
• Lydia and her household were baptized [Acts 16:15].
• The Philippian jailer and his household were baptized [Acts 16:33].
• Many Corinthians were baptized [Acts 18:8].
• The Ephesian disciples were baptized [Acts 19:5].

All the biblical accounts agree: water baptism is for those who believe. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" [Mark 16:16].

John's Baptism

John the Baptist came preaching the baptism of repentance to prepare the way for the Messiah. Whoever believed John's teaching showed their change of heart (repentance) and faith through water baptism. "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins" [Mark 1:4-5].

If John's baptism was one of repentance (as the Bible says) then why would the sinless one need it? If it for the remission of sins, why should Jesus be immersed in death to sin? John baptized Jesus to "fulfill all righteousness" [Matthew 3:15]. In baptism, Jesus set a precedent for His followers. He was the promised Messiah who would baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire [Matthew 3:11], and at His baptism the fullness of the Holy Ghost came upon Him [Acts 10:38]. Jesus' baptism shows the heart of a humble servant who came as the perfect example showing us the heart and will of our Father. John rightly said, "I have need to be baptized of thee..." (not the other way around).

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - [Matthew 3:13-17 KJV]

Baptism of Christ (The Apostle's Baptism)
In the New Testament, the apostles preached repentance, baptizing new believers in water just as John the Baptist did; but their message went deeper than John's. Now, they preached Christ's death and resurrection and the infilling of the Holy Spirit with power, which was given at Pentecost. The book of Acts recounts many examples of believers being water baptized and being filled with the Holy Spirit (though not necessarily in that order). "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" [Acts 10:47].

So we see from both the Old and New Testaments that baptism is a spiritual work of God which is entered into by faith. For Christians today, water baptism is our proclamation that we are turning from our old life (repentance), we are are dead to sin (crucified with Christ), our past is buried with Christ, and we have been raised anew into Christ's life by the power of the Holy Spirit [Ephesians 2:6]. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [Romans 6:3-6].

 

[Sparkey]

God bless you Sparrowhawke! dont want to take away from your post but just had to say how helpful your understanding is and can be to the body of Christ!

Mitspa

Thank you but much of what I've posted in thread here was taken (by permission) from online research. Here are some of my sources:
http://www.christianblog.com/blog/bereanjim/six-elementary-doctrines-about-christ/

http://www.jimfeeney.org/waterbaptism.html

Google search: "Washing Rituals, Holier than Thou"

http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/water-baptism-2.htm

Of course, proper citation would ultimately include Our God, who sent His Spirit to all as our teacher and counselor. It is He who confirms the truth in the ear of those who love Him. :yes

 

[Sparkey]

More than 30 years ago, I had the privilege of attending Bible College at a Spirit-Filled (Pentecostal, Non-Denominational) church. The pastor's daughter was qualified instructor in the English Department and one of her writing assignments was an "Exegesis" of any Scriptural Topic.

I choose sheep for my paper and was astonished at the depth of the allegory found between Shepherds and their sheep. Western sheepherders might complain about how stupid sheep can be, stories can be found about sheep who, when lost, lack enough sense of direction to even find a their way back. The bible tells of a good shepherd who leaves the flock and searches for the one sheep. I'm certain that I'm preaching to the choir there, but there was one story that I found that I'd like to relate. It had to do with a method of dealing with one of the flock who would wander too often.

In my research for the paper, I came across a story about a shepherd who actually broke the legs of the sheep who had strayed too often. He then put the sheep on his shoulders and carried it everywhere. There might have been times when the resentment the sheep had for its treatment could be seen in the stains on the shoulders of the shepherd who didn't put her down fast enough when she needed to urinate, but eventually a bond grew as every need of the sheep was met during the time of healing.

The story of the wayward sheep might be seen as a digression but it ties back into baptism and is relevant here, when we consider the outcome. The time on the shoulders of the shepherd formed a bond that corrected the problem. The one that would constantly stray and get lost became a very close follower. Sheep are timid and there is a fear of flowing water so when it came time to go across a small stream, the shepherd would stride in, letting the fear of separation cause his flock to jump right in after him.

We learn a lesson of obedience from baptism and it is okay to be baptized just because Jesus told us to. Yet, to the sheep who was lost and corrected, the need goes beyond that. We simply need to stay close to our friend. I believe that it is in this way that God profoundly changes our heart, and that our baptism demonstrates this change.

 

[Sinthesis]

I understand how the principle is biblically accurate, but is the story of the wayward sheep actually in the Bible?

 

[Sinthesis]

There are two approaches to Word. Literal and allegorical.

Some will view water baptism as their external obedience matter i.e. they themselves perform X and then they attach some benefit unto themselves for their action.

smaller, thank you for participanting in this thread. I kept waiting for you. I actually copied your post into a file doc. so that I can go through it later.

I agree with everything you said if I understood you correctly.

This is an facet that I am considering but haven't truly asked the Holy Spirit for guidance. So I share it only as what it is, a consideration.

Before Jesus' sacrifice He needed to be declared as the High Priest, of the order of Melchizadek. I find in Exodus a ceremony that was done for this reason of the priesthood. It's in Ex. 29. It said to the people that is was their priest, anointed and ordained by God. The water and the oil (Holy Spirit). "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."
The Jews through their traditions would have had an understanding of what had happened. Those yeilding themselves to the Holy Spirit would understand but the stiff-necked religious and proud rabbis and priest would be insulted.
He came as a Rabbi, He left as the High Priest.

He fulfilled the righteous law of God, in His baptisim, in His sacrific as the Lamb of God.

Just my thoughts.


God has never changed.

The rites described in Exodus are for initiation into the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. Baptism is symbolized as a type of cleansing, but it is open to all regardless of genealogy. You are correct that this baptism was symbolic of Christ assuming His station as mediator(priest) between man and God the Father, but the people of the day could not have understood that yet.

 

[Mitspa]

I understand how the principle is biblically accurate, but is the story of the wayward sheep actually in the Bible?

Of course it is! its mixed throughout scripture, and seen in many types!
One of the titles of Christ Himself is that of "The Shepherd"



Psa 23:1


A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

1Pe 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25


For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

By the way "bishop" is "overseer" one who watches over the flock!

 

[heymikey80]

I understand how the principle is biblically accurate, but is the story of the wayward sheep actually in the Bible?

Yes. In fact it's interpreted directly by Jesus:

3 So he told them this parable: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:3-7

 

[Deborah13]

The rites described in Exodus are for initiation into the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. Baptism is symbolized as a type of cleansing, but it is open to all regardless of genealogy. You are correct that this baptism was symbolic of Christ assuming His station as mediator(priest) between man and God the Father, but the people of the day could not have understood that yet.

Thank you clarifying and pointing out that He is our mediator just as the priest was in the OT, a facet that I had missed completely.

 

[Deborah13]

The are so many great posts on this subject alone. Each are of enlightening.

 

[Deborah13]

Of course it is! its mixed throughout scripture, and seen in many types!
One of the titles of Christ Himself is that of "The Shepherd"



Psa 23:1






A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2



He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3



He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4



Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5



Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6



Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

1Pe 2:24



Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25






For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

By the way "bishop" is "overseer" one who watches over the flock!

This Psalm is so rich with the nature of God.
Before I was saved this was the only scripture I knew and I knew it by heart. Thanks to my great gramma

 

[BornAgain]

The rites described in Exodus are for initiation into the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. Baptism is symbolized as a type of cleansing, but it is open to all regardless of genealogy. You are correct that this baptism was symbolic of Christ assuming His station as mediator(priest) between man and God the Father, but the people of the day could not have understood that yet.

I am just joining this part of the thread...can you tell me in Exodus where this can be found?

 

[farouk]

This Psalm is so rich with the nature of God.
Before I was saved this was the only scripture I knew and I knew it by heart. Thanks to my great gramma

Deborah:

The Psalms are so varied and wide-ranging in their spiritual experience.

My wife and I have read them over repeatedly.