Wicked thoughts don't make a wicked person

[evenifigoalone]

I am interested in solid discussion. You are of a secular discipline that is opposed to Christian knowledge and you are not interested in discussing facts. Why did you begin arguing with me and also by deflecting what I have said? It is because you only want to propagate your secular views and argue against the Christian views I have presented. If you would discuss with me in a reasonable manner, then you would be grateful for my empathy.

I have no patience for willful ignorance in regards to mental illness. Particularly when it's one I have lived with, and have overcome with the help of "secular" advice and medication
We have nothing to discuss. Go jump in a lake

 

[Serving Zion]

So best to reject those bad thoughts when they pop into your head

Exactly! And didn't they forget immediately the struggle they had when they first started watching horror movies? Or pornography? Or getting sexual? Or shooting their first deer?

"You become subjected to that which has conquered you." 2 Peter 2:19

"Guard your heart diligently, for from it flow the issues of life" Proverbs 4:23

Yes, it is our heart that makes way for the thoughts, and thus when we speak the world gets to see our heart's desire (for the food going in does not defile a man, but the thoughts of murder and covetousness, slander and lust. Those are the things that defile a man". (Mark 7:17-23).

Even so, though the heart has been corrupted by the way the world has trained it, there is a part of the heart in a Christian that desires to be made whole in Christ. It is the resulting cognitive dissonance that ensues naturally in a Christian whose heart is accustomed to make provision for self-condemnation (1 John 3:20-21).

 

[Serving Zion]

I have no patience for willful ignorance in regards to mental illness. Particularly when it's one I have lived with, and have overcome with the help of "secular" advice and medication
We have nothing to discuss. Go jump in a lake

Exactly. You were not set free by that discipline.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Exactly. You were not set free by that discipline, only one problem has been exchanged for another.

I would block you if I was able. But as you are a staff member, that apparently isn't even an option. Go buzz off and bother someone else. I'm not engaging you, and you don't know jack about me or what I deal with. Shame on you.

 

[Serving Zion]

I would block you if I was able. But as you are a staff member, that apparently isn't even an option. Go buzz off and bother someone else. I'm not engaging you, and you don't know jack about me or what I deal with. Shame on you.

I am sorry you are having that difficulty. I will advise management of the unfair policy. I also would rather you could choose to not speak to me but I also am obligated to answer when you speak to me. I did not approach you or invite you to speak to me in the first place.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I am sorry you are having that difficulty. I will advise management of the unfair policy. I also would rather you could choose to not speak to me but I also am obligated to answer when you speak to me. I did not approach you or invite you to speak to me in the first place.

You don't have to keep responding. I've said multiple times now that I don't wish to discuss the issue further. I have my reasons.
Mental illness is a topic that is important to me and I get worked up over it easily. I don't have the patience to discuss it calmly, and I frequently have to limit my access to discussions about it. It can make me angry, and it can also trigger my OCD symptoms in some cases. At this time, I am in a good spot mentally and I'm able to handle things I wouldn't be able to handle if I were in the midst of an OCD episode. But that doesn't mean I take to dismissal of it kindly.

 

[Serving Zion]

You don't have to keep responding. I've said multiple times now that I don't wish to discuss the issue further. I have my reasons.
Mental illness is a topic that is important to me and I get worked up over it easily. I don't have the patience to discuss it calmly, and I frequently have to limit my access to discussions about it. It can make me angry, and it can also trigger my OCD symptoms in some cases. At this time, I am in a good spot mentally and I'm able to handle things I wouldn't be able to handle if I were in the midst of an OCD episode. But that doesn't mean I take to dismissal of it kindly.

I have the same rights to speak about it as you do, and, because of what I know about it and the harm that the secular disciplines do because of their own ignorance of Christian knowledge, I am inclined to not give any opportunity for their anti-Christian teachings to prevail in my presence.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I have the same rights to speak about it as you do, and, because of what I know about it and the harm that the secular disciplines do because of their own ignorance of Christian knowledge, I am inclined to not give any opportunity for their anti-Christian teachings to prevail in my presence.

And I have the right to not engage you. You don't have to prod me to keep engaging you when I have clearly stated I do not wish to. Just leave me alone
BTW, mental health isn't anti-Christian

 

[Serving Zion]

And I have the right to not engage you.
You don't have to prod me to keep engaging you when I have clearly stated I do not wish to.
BTW, mental health isn't anti-Christian

I would prefer that you don't engage me. Please stop prodding me too. You approached me in the first place.

Most views of the mental health industry are secular, which does not acknowledge the role of the devil and does not understand the spiritual. They do, by nature, oppose Christian teachings and also happen to become opposed to Christianity by opposing the word of truth when it is spoken against them.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I would prefer that you don't engage me. Please stop prodding me too. You approached me in the first place.

Most views of the mental health industry are secular, which does not acknowledge the role of the devil and does not understand the spiritual. They do, by nature, oppose Christian teachings and also happen to become opposed to Christianity by opposing the word of truth when it is spoken against them.

I'm referring to your previous posts where I said I'm done talking with you, and you continued to try to pull me into discussion. Don't do that crap. (edit: No, I don't think merely replying is the same as prodding discussion.)

And you're very very wrong, but you know what. Sit there in your wrongness and be wrong I guess.

 

[Serving Zion]

I'm referring to your previous posts where I said I'm done talking with you, and you continued to try to pull me into discussion. Don't do that crap. (edit: No, I don't think merely replying is the same as prodding discussion.)

And you're very very wrong, but you know what. Sit there in your wrongness and be wrong I guess.

As I said, I am obligated to answer you when you speak to me. So just don't do it. I would prefer that too.

 

[humble soul]

Most of the examples in this thread are violent. What makes a person want to "wish death upon another", or "feel like stabbing them" or "punching their lights out"? Surely these thoughts don't just come from nowhere. Somewhere in that person's history, they have developed a sense of distaste for the person that they are feeling violent toward. Also, the feeling needs to be triggered, so what is it that the other person is doing that triggers a violent emotion?

When we understand that the violent reaction (or the tendency to react violently if it is only in thought) isn't found in everybody, then we can see that it is possible for a person to react without violence. Therefore violence isn't necessarily the normal or natural response, even though it is finding a path of expression through that person at that time.

For example: road rage is quite a common expression of a violent tendency. Someone might become enraged if a person is selfishly cutting into the lane in front of them. Another person might simply accept it and make space without any feeling of resentment. Why does one person have a violent tendency and another does not?

Haven't you also seen that a person will sometimes feel angered if someone pulls into the lane ahead of them while at other times the same person will be patient and not offended? So what is making the difference between one and the other? Why does a person sometimes react with the fruits of the spirit (peace, patience, kindness, gentleness) while at other times they will react with the fruits of the flesh (hatred, contention, outburst of wrath, envy, murder)? (Galatians 5:19-23). Furthermore, that leads us to ask what is the natural, normal way for a human to behave and that leads us to ask where the opposite behaviour is coming from.

Reading your post Zion, I might get the impression, that you have never had a bad thought in your life. As what you appear to be saying is that 'normal" people don't have wicked thoughts.
My view of "normal" has changed over the years. Good people can do bad things and vice versa. By the same token, good people can have wicked thoughts, maybe not as frequently as some I admit.
My conclusion is people are complex. A life of dedicated prayer might iron out those less desirable thoughts. But I would hazard a guess that Christian monks may have a worse time time than most, in dealing with wicked thoughts. Here I am referring to sexually related ones.

 

[Serving Zion]

And don't even talk behind peoples back about them to yourself or others. Gossiping, whoa. It can curse them.

Gossip is the devil's realm, and it is because people form opinions while hiding from those they are gossiping about. They always begin by saying "promise not to tell ...?". That means they are conspiring in the dark, afraid to bring into the light the things they are saying for fear that it will be exposed.

Then by the time the gossip boils over into violence, most people are too bound by their beliefs to be unbound by the truth, and so they won't come to the light.

 

[humble soul]

This topic might encourage the more puritanical to use scripture to browbeat those of us, who can admit to a wicked thought.
If you've decided I'm a wicked person, you can use this thread as evidence. ?

 

[evenifigoalone]

If anyone is dealing with OCD or just persistent unwanted thoughts that they can't get rid of and needs someone to talk to, feel free to reach out to me. I'm not an expert, but I am diagnosed with OCD so I know what it's like. I can offer evidence backed-up advice and point you to some good resources.

I've snapped people's heads off in this thread, so I suspect that soonish I will either be barred from engaging further in the thread or put into time-out from the entire site. Frankly I hardly care right now.

 

[humble soul]

Wicked thoughts I've had in the last hour;
- a few extra chocs with that coffee would be nice
-i might have a nap later today
-i wonder if I should gamble on that horse race tomorrow
-ive decided to put that huckleberry ...I'm gonna put him on ignore!
-if my boss doesn't show me more respect, I'm gonna , I'm gonna, I'm gonna............cry.

 

[humble soul]

If anyone is dealing with OCD or just persistent unwanted thoughts that they can't get rid of and needs someone to talk to, feel free to reach out to me. I'm not an expert, but I am diagnosed with OCD so I know what it's like. I can offer evidence backed-up advice and point you to some good resources.

I've worked with some with serious OCD. And I have a very mild form. It's real.
But this thread embraces the whole human experience. Even the Pope has to deal with wicked thoughts. We just assume he's perfect.

 

[Serving Zion]

Reading your post Zion, I might get the impression, that you have never had a bad thought in your life. As what you appear to be saying is that 'normal" people don't have wicked thoughts.
My view of "normal" has changed over the years. Good people can do bad things and vice versa. By the same token, good people can have wicked thoughts, maybe not as frequently as some I admit.
My conclusion is people are complex. A life of dedicated prayer might iron out those less desirable thoughts. But I would hazard a guess that Christian monks may have a worse time time than most, in dealing with wicked thoughts. Here I am referring to sexually related ones.

I mean, if a person sometimes responds angrily to a rude driver, and sometimes doesn't, what is the normal way to respond? They can't both be normal responses. One of them must be an "out-of-character" response. So I refer to children because they have been least corrupted by the world, and it gives us an idea of what is normal human behaviour.

Of course children don't drive cars, but they do have to share in other ways. One example I remember vividly, is a baby in church eating a cracker. His brother being three was drawing on the table. He saw his baby brother's cracker and wanted it. Mother took the cracker, broke it, gave half to the big brother. Baby didn't know what was happening. He saw that his cracker was half the size. Big brother pulled a face at baby brother and ate the cracker. Mother said to baby "you have to share". Baby was hurt in his heart because big brother did it to bully him. Baby didn't respond with anger so as to try and hurt big brother, but with anger saying (non-verbally) "hey! Say thank you!". It showed me a lot about how the tendency for a judge to rule does influence the likely behaviours of those subjected to the judge. In this case the mother was a wicked judge, giving her strength to bullies. The big brother didn't even need to plead his case, the mother already did the pleading by saying that he is entitled to half the cracker on request. Consequently, even though big brother did not think much of the cracker, the baby received very sore treatment that left him shaken in the spirit and although he did forget the event after a few minutes, his joy had been robbed.

From that example, I can see that if a person cuts in on the motorway, it is usually ok if they innocently need to. It usually is accompanied by gratitude. However there are lane-hoppers who care nothing about pushing others back, and it generates a spiritual climate of rudeness - the people are treated with disregard and therefore they begin to treat others as people who disregard them.

Similarly, the baby will learn to eat the cracker in seclusion or haste, to avoid the risk of covetousness - but he will forget how to love having his cracker because he is rather in fear of losing it. Thus, sin spreads to all because all do sin.

In terms of thoughts, it is the heart that gives room for thoughts. For instance, the first time a child sees sexual activity it disgusts them. Then as the world encourages them to explore it and accept it, their heart develops some sense of desire for it. Once a person has developed a sense of taste, how can they not be gratified by that taste? I don't know really why you say a monk would struggle with it more than others. In my mind I would think they probably have got rid of all sources of temptation...

 

[humble soul]

Gossip is the devil's realm,

Did you hear about Virgil ?. Hey, have I got a story for you, did you know that ............?

 

[humble soul]

I don't know really why you say a monk would struggle with it more than others. In my mind I would think they probably have got rid of all sources of temptation...

Ive chatted with ex monks. It happens. Not all of them of course.