Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us?

[Dave Slayer]

Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us? Will those who refuse to take the mark be killed? If so, will there be any Christians alive when Jesus comes back? If all Christians are killed for refusing to take the mark, who will be left and alive when Jesus returns? What is Biblical?

 

[david_james]

The mark of the beast occurs during tribulation. This isn't debatable.

 

[Solo]

The mark of the beast occurs during tribulation. This isn't debatable.

At what point in history do the Scriptures denote that the church will cease from being persecuted and afflicted by tribulation for their belief in the Lord Jesus Christ? Surely you do not believe that unbelievers are persecuted and afflicted by tribulation for their belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

As long as believers are in the world, they will have tribulation according to Jesus Christ.

• These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. John 16:33

Do not confuse tribulation with wrath. Believers will go through the tribulation poured out on them by the son of perdition, the abomination of desolation; but they will not go through the wrath of God.

 

[david_james]

The believers are people who accept Jesus after Rapture

 

[Jon-Marc]

Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us? Will those who refuse to take the mark be killed? If so, will there be any Christians alive when Jesus comes back? If all Christians are killed for refusing to take the mark, who will be left and alive when Jesus returns? What is Biblical?

I don't know about you, but I won't be doomed since I have eternal life through my Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ, the holy Lamb of God. Since I will either be dead and gone or Raptured, I won't be here during the tribulation.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us? Will those who refuse to take the mark be killed? If so, will there be any Christians alive when Jesus comes back? If all Christians are killed for refusing to take the mark, who will be left and alive when Jesus returns? What is Biblical?

I dont believe its a world wide event.It is my belief the mark of the beast is the abomination that causes desolation and will take place in Judea.Be it security for the false jews or whatother reason.The christian jews in Israel seem to be the ones to be taken captive and killed by the sword.

Daniel 11;33
And they that understand amoung the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil,many days.

Rev 13;10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity;he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Time will tell.

 

[Vic C.]

As long as believers are in the world, they will have tribulation according to Jesus Christ.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. John 16:33

Don't you just love that verse? I do, it speaks to me every day. It prepares me for what may lie ahead in my life. :yes

Do not confuse tribulation with wrath. Believers will go through the tribulation poured out on them by the son of perdition, the abomination of desolation; but they will not go through the wrath of God.

That is one of the things I learned while studying PreWrath that still stay with me today. The study of tribulation and wrath throughout the Bible was an eye opener.


Dave, to better understand what you are asking, please explain to us what you believe this mark to be.

Thanks.

 

[Matthew24:34]

NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

 

[aj777]

I used to think that the Mark happened back in the day when Hitler was around when he 'marked' the Jews. I could be wrong. I'd say I am, reading some of your answers. What you all have provided as info seems more logical.
That was just my two cent's worth

 

[Dave Slayer]

NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

Is this the Preterist view by any chance? Anyways, what was the mark of the beast?

 

[Matthew24:34]

[quote="Matthew24:34":odtpimfr]NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

Is this the Preterist view by any chance? Anyways, what was the mark of the beast?[/quote:odtpimfr]

Greetings, Dave Slayer: By putting the Revelation and, consequently, the "beast" in the proper historical setting, one can make a strong case that Nero fits that title. The "mark of the beast" is, therefore, not a present-day tatoo, a modern computer chip or a social security number!

What would the first readers of the Revelation have thought when they heard or read John's vision-inspired words? Could they have possibly looked back the Lord's instructions to Moses concerning the Tabernacle and the Priesthood? I think so! Aaron, who had listened to the people and made the golden calf, was to bear "the judgment of the children of Israel over his heart before the Lord continually" (Ex. 28:30). He was also to wear the engraving "Holiness to the Lord" on the front of a turban upon his head. The Lord said "So it shall be on Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things which the children of Israel hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall always be on his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord" (Ex. 28:36-38). They would have understood that the one marked is owned and controlled by the one by whom they are marked.

In the vision Ezekiel received while he sat in his house with the elders before him (Ezek. 8:1), he saw a man (one of six armed men) clothed with linen who had "the writer's inkhorn at his side" (vs. 3). The man was to go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the forehead of those who sighed and cried over the abominations that were done within her walls. The other men with weapons were to follow after him and kill everyone, including women and children and young and old, who did not possess God's mark (vss. 4-9). The mark here is not to be taken literally nor is the mark of Revelation 13! The mark is clearly symbolic of the allegiance of man's heart. Those who gave allegiance to Nero were "marked" by him and given certain privileges. Those who refused allegiance to Nero but worshiped the one true God were "marked" by Him. They did not enjoy the privileges afforded those who "bowed" to Nero (they could not buy or sell), but they enjoyed the ultimate protection of God when He came upon that first-century Jerusalem and destroyed it. Like those in Ezekiel's vision, those within its walls without God's "mark" of possession perished!

In Christ, Matthew24:34

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Matthew24:34
Those who gave allegiance to Nero were "marked" by him and given certain privileges. Those who refused allegiance to Nero but worshiped the one true God were "marked" by Him. They did not enjoy the privileges afforded those who "bowed" to Nero (they could not buy or sell), but they enjoyed the ultimate protection of God when He came upon that first-century Jerusalem and destroyed it. Like those in Ezekiel's vision, those within its walls without God's "mark" of possession perished!

So Nero is the beast? Another claim that can be easily refuted with simple logic. Even if Revelation was written during Nero's reign (ruled 54 AD - 68 AD); and Nero was the sixth ruler of Rome ("there are also seven kings, five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come - Revelation 17:10 - i.e. Nero was the one that "is" when John wrote Revelation); it is NOT possible for Nero to be the beast. Notice that the beast was to be an "eighth ruler" who "was not" (not present) when Revelation was written ("The beast that was and is not, is himself the eighth."). Nero cannot be both the SIXTH AND EIGHTH ruler. That he was BOTH the one who was reigning and also the one who was not reigning (he cannot be BOTH the one who "is" and the one who "is not") is not possible, especially when you consider that Nero was not destroyed by Christ’s parousia in 70 AD; he committed suicide in 68 AD.

The only reason FP’s lure people into their sect is because the specifics of their claims (that appear to be insignificant) go unchecked. Pay attention.

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

 

[Shilohsfoal]

NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

If you really want to learn about the beast then you should take a look into Israel's past and present.
The beast that you claim to have been destroyed in 70 ad only recieved a deadly wound and is today.
People from all over the world wonder after it and while the gentiles argue over scripture the jews are reading about it in elementary school.If only they believed enough to read the book of revelation,then they might get an eye opener.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Shilohsfoal
If only they believed enough to read the book of revelation,then they might get an eye opener.

If their eyes were open, they would plainly see that their entire hyper-preterist premise is completely devastated by my previous post. They have nowhere to go. If they are to accept the earlier date for the writing of Revelation (during Nero's reign), then Nero can't possibly be the beast (proven in my last post), and their belief system is dead. If Revelation was written after 70 AD, they have no belief system to begin with. Their only hope is to insist on a pre-54 AD dating for the writing of Revelation; and I don't even think they are slippery enough to pull that one off :eyebrow.

Checkmate..........again.

 

[Matthew24:34]

NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

If you really want to learn about the beast then you should take a look into Israel's past and present.
The beast that you claim to have been destroyed in 70 ad only recieved a deadly wound and is today.
People from all over the world wonder after it and while the gentiles argue over scripture the jews are reading about it in elementary school.If only they believed enough to read the book of revelation,then they might get an eye opener.

Problem--After the "thousand" years:

"The Devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the BEAST and the false prophet ARE. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev. 20:10). The Beast is long gone!

The angel said to John (chapter 22)--"These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place . . . . for the time is at hand."

Jesus said "Behold, I am coming soon" (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20)! And He did!

Matthew24:34

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Matthew24:34
The Beast is long gone!

OK then; who was he? I'll ask this again. If Nero was the SIXTH king, and it is written that the beast will be the EIGHTH king, who was the beast?

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth

Nero cannot be BOTH the sixth AND eighth king. He cannot be both the one who is, and also be the one who is not. If Nero was the sixth (who is), who was the eighth (who is not)? Explain.

 

[Matthew24:34]

NO, a thousand times NO! The "mark of the beast" is found in the Revelation and the Revelation involves those things which John was shown which were in his day to SHORTLY take place! (Rev. 1:1; 22:6). Why don't we put things in their proper historical setting? John was told by the angel to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of the book because the time was THEN near (Rev. 22:10)!

The key to the book of Revelation is found in the first and last chapters--it involves the things that were to SHORTLY take place in John's day. The time for fulfillment was THEN NEAR! How can we understand the book if we do not put it in its correct setting?

There is NO mark of the beast today. The "beast" is long gone and judged by God!

Matthew24:34

If you really want to learn about the beast then you should take a look into Israel's past and present.
The beast that you claim to have been destroyed in 70 ad only recieved a deadly wound and is today.
People from all over the world wonder after it and while the gentiles argue over scripture the jews are reading about it in elementary school.If only they believed enough to read the book of revelation,then they might get an eye opener.

Please compare Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 22:6 and 10! The Beast was in the lake of fire and brimstone in the events which were in John's day to "shortly" take place--the time was then "near."

Matthew24:34

 

[turnorburn]

Matthew 24:34 who taught you this, your either self taught or under
the care of a teacher mentor. :naughty


turnorburn

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Originally posted by Shilohsfoal
If only they believed enough to read the book of revelation,then they might get an eye opener.

If their eyes were open, they would plainly see that their entire hyper-preterist premise is completely devastated by my previous post. They have nowhere to go. If they are to accept the earlier date for the writing of Revelation (during Nero's reign), then Nero can't possibly be the beast (proven in my last post), and their belief system is dead. If Revelation was written after 70 AD, they have no belief system to begin with. Their only hope is to insist on a pre-54 AD dating for the writing of Revelation; and I don't even think they are slippery enough to pull that one off :eyebrow.

Checkmate..........again.

I understand the preterist eyes are not open.But Im speaking of Israel itself.
If the people in the land of Israel only had a little faith then thier eyes might be opened.
Most wont even read the book of revelation .But the things of the beast they are taught in grade school for it is thier own .It is Israel that is of the seven and is the eigth.It is Israel that was(prior to the wrinting of revelation)and was not when it was written and yet now it is. And all those jews (whos names are not written)have wonderd the world over after the beast.
No the preterists eyes are not open.If they were then they might behold the beast that was,and was not and yet is.

 

[Osgiliath]

Matthew, I know you think I’m an obnoxious pinhead (there is some truth to that :P), but at least for the sake of other members, you should really address this question:

Originally posted by Osgiliath

OK then; who was he? I'll ask this again. If Nero was the SIXTH king, and it is written that the beast will be the EIGHTH king, who was the beast?

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth

Nero cannot be BOTH the sixth AND eighth king. He cannot be both the one who is, and also be the one who is not. If Nero was the sixth (who is), who was the eighth (who is not)? Explain.

If your interpretations are to be seen as credible, they must stand up to Biblical scrutiny such as the question above. You're eventually going to have to answer some hard questions one of these days. How do you explain the discrepancy in your theory? Who was the eighth king if Nero was the sixth? Forget about me; answer for the other members.