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Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave Slayer
  • Start date Start date
Good Lord. I give up. Extremes at both ends of the spectrum. Doesn’t anyone realize that the Word of God is the only source of truth anymore? The imaginations of men have no bounds. I'm grabbing my Bible and my Precious and going back into my cave in the Misty Mountains.
 
Hi Matt.24:24

Please reread my post. I said "has been" as well as "present" and "till the end". "has been" is the "shkall shortly come to pass" etc.

God bless,
duval
 
Hi nonbelieversforum

No, I do not believe "implants" etc.

God bless
duval
 
Hello Dave,

You stated:Will the mark of the beast soon be here to doom us? Will those who refuse to take the mark be killed?

My response: Yes.

You stated: If so, will there be any Christians alive when Jesus comes back?

My response: Yes.

You stated: If all Christians are killed for refusing to take the mark, who will be left and alive when Jesus returns? What is Biblical?

My response: The only Christians that will be alive at Christ's advent will be on Mount Zion for the duration of the GT.

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

According to John, the 144,000 will be the male count of those that will be on Mount Zion at Christ's return.

Revelation 14
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
For those who have the modern day view of endtimes. What do you suggest the mark will be? How could one man create such a system that would control the buying and selling of the world of the modern age ?

For the Preterist view. If the events of the rise and fall antichrist have already happened. How did the antichrist in that day an age control the buying and selling of the world ?? Back then buying and selling was trading, barter, and gold and silver. How could that be controled back then.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
For the Preterist view. If the events of the rise and fall antichrist have already happened. How did the antichrist in that day an age control the buying and selling of the world ?? Back then buying and selling was trading, barter, and gold and silver. How could that be controled back then.
The same way trading, barter, and gold and silver can be controlled now. :chin
 
nonbelieverforums said:
For those who have the modern day view of endtimes. What do you suggest the mark will be? How could one man create such a system that would control the buying and selling of the world of the modern age ?

For the Preterist view. If the events of the rise and fall antichrist have already happened. How did the antichrist in that day an age control the buying and selling of the world ?? Back then buying and selling was trading, barter, and gold and silver. How could that be controled back then.
Good questions. When I think of the mark, I think of Biblical counterfeits. I think in terms of religious domination and not political domination. Satan is focused of being worshiped and in effect, steering worshipers of God away fro the Lord.

Revelations is a very "Jewish" book full of OT references and OT imagery. I think of these verses:

Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deu 11:19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Exo 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.


... which brings us to the Tefillin:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... illin.html
 
The same way trading, barter, and gold and silver can be controlled now

Not sure I understand sinthesis. We have computer technology now ?? Can you explain how this would have been enforced back then ?? Your of the Preterist view??
 
Vic C. said:
nonbelieverforums said:
For those who have the modern day view of endtimes. What do you suggest the mark will be? How could one man create such a system that would control the buying and selling of the world of the modern age ?

For the Preterist view. If the events of the rise and fall antichrist have already happened. How did the antichrist in that day an age control the buying and selling of the world ?? Back then buying and selling was trading, barter, and gold and silver. How could that be controled back then.
Good questions. When I think of the mark, I think of Biblical counterfeits. I think in terms of religious domination and not political domination. Satan is focused of being worshiped and in effect, steering worshipers of God away fro the Lord.

Revelations is a very "Jewish" book full of OT references and OT imagery. I think of these verses:

Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deu 11:19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Exo 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.


... which brings us to the Tefillin:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... illin.html

Well I read this link and it sounds to me that this was more like an honour system. People used the tefillin as a matter of faith.

Is the mark of the beast not more of an enforced mark? People become enslaved as a result of the mark for not worshipping the antichrist? Am I to understand that the Tefillin was used as the mark of the beast from the Preterist point of view?
 
I know nothing about the preterist take on this. My belief is that this futurist's antichrist will be nothing more that a fake, phony, counterfeit Messiah. I offered a possibility of what this mark may be a counterfeit for. I was only offering up info and scripture that isn't normally thought of. :yes Since I don't believe in coincidences, it does look like a possible fit to me.


Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. <-- that would be the forehead.
 
turnorburn said:
horsemen.jpg


I met Jesus in 1972, at that time I had just been released from jail. While in jail I read a book
by a man named Hal Lindsey, in the book there were drawings showing a vast multitude of people
joining together to eliminate Israel. Yesterday a brother in Florida sent me a U-Tube showing
Russia paling up with Iran...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69axIeq3ZWE


turnorburn

Won't be long now we should be hearing something about this mark, how long I do not know..

Greetings turnorburn: My sister-in-law was saved shortly (I mean "soon") after she read some of Hal Lindsey's books. They drove her to the Scriptures which led her to the Lord! It all goes to show that God can use even the false things in the world to bring us to Christ!

Hal Lindsey needs to repent for leading so many, many astray!

Matthew24:34
 
Futurists wrongly teach that there will be a modern-day beast (in spite of the clear timing indicated in the Revelation which placed him in that first-century world)--

Hmmm? I wonder, is the world going to go to a denarii system so that everyone can be forced to buy a quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius? Is that the one-world currency we are supposedly heading for? Guess so, huh?

Matthew24:34
 
Matthew24:34 said:
Hmmm? I wonder, is the world going to go to a denarii system so that everyone can be forced to buy a quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius? Is that the one-world currency we are supposedly heading for? Guess so, huh?

Matthew24:34
Exactly!!! However, the antichrist will call it a denarithem to fool all the literal futurists into accepting it. :rolling
 
Matthew24:34 said:
Futurists wrongly teach that there will be a modern-day beast (in spite of the clear timing indicated in the Revelation which placed him in that first-century world)--

Hmmm? I wonder, is the world going to go to a denarii system so that everyone can be forced to buy a quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius? Is that the one-world currency we are supposedly heading for? Guess so, huh?

Matthew24:34

I had also asked what the mark of the beast was with respect to the Preterist position could please you tell me or is this another apocalyptic metaphor. China and Russia have just closed down the U.S. dollar.

We are on our way to a one world currency. I am not sure if you are in the U.S. I know that from going back and forth with you that you have no interest in world events, the media or what is happening to our world. That has been evident from day one reading your worlds.

Even if I adopoted the views of the Preterist, as a Christian I would still want to know what is going on to my world you just don't. I suspect many of your followers won't either.

Might I suggest Matthew 24:34 that you begin researching the North American Union and the new Amero Currency. This is the merge of Canada, the United States and Mexico for mid 2010. It's not a theory it's a done deal signed by Bush long ago. Reported over and over by CNN covered by Lou Dobbs. It's done were merging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

This will implement the Amero Currency modeled after the Euro and the E.U. To protect us from these open borders will be the National I.D. Card (some have RFID chips on the cards others don't).

Yes I do very much see a world wide currency starting and don't even get me started on a centralised banking system already in place.

You know Matthew 24:34 I respect your knowledge of scripture I really do. Despite I don't believe your view on end times I keep an open mind and I listen to what you say. Isn't it funny how you won't even turn on the TV or open a newspaper. I will argue back and forth with you till the day we see Russia/Iran come against Israel (see my post this morning Iran / Israel Pray for peace prepare for war) I suspect when this happens you won't be posting anymore.

I mean you and your followers no disrespect but your living your life in denial brother.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Might I suggest Matthew 24:34 that you begin researching the North American Union and the new Amero Currency. This is the merge of Canada, the United States and Mexico for mid 2010. It's not a theory it's a done deal signed by Bush long ago. Reported over and over by CNN covered by Lou Dobbs. It's done were merging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

This will implement the Amero Currency modeled after the Euro and the E.U. To protect us from these open borders will be the National I.D. Card (some have RFID chips on the cards others don't).

Boy do I love Snopes!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/nau.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/ameronote.asp
 
parousia70 said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Might I suggest Matthew 24:34 that you begin researching the North American Union and the new Amero Currency. This is the merge of Canada, the United States and Mexico for mid 2010. It's not a theory it's a done deal signed by Bush long ago. Reported over and over by CNN covered by Lou Dobbs. It's done were merging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

This will implement the Amero Currency modeled after the Euro and the E.U. To protect us from these open borders will be the National I.D. Card (some have RFID chips on the cards others don't).

Boy do I love Snopes!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/nau.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/ameronote.asp

I don't know what snopes is but since your challenging the issue:

http://www.amerocurrency.com/buyameros.html
http://www.amerocurrency.com/
http://www.dc-coin.com/index.asp?Catego ... n=VIEWCATS

Will you be challenging me on the North American Union as well?

http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp
 
Might I suggest Matthew 24:34 that you begin researching the North American Union and the new Amero Currency. This is the merge of Canada, the United States and Mexico for mid 2010. It's not a theory it's a done deal signed by Bush long ago. Reported over and over by CNN covered by Lou Dobbs. It's done were merging.
You should also research the validity of such reports. I just cannot bring myself to believe every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. As I was informed not too long ago, we Christians are not to partake in conspiracies or spread rumors of possible conspiracies. God's orders, not mine. :amen

The NAU and the Amero are hypothetical. It's all theoretical. You must also realize the Press is in the business of sensationalizing every human interest story they can capitalize on in the hopes of stimulating the audiences and stimulating the spending of the advertisers, thus boosting their bottom line.

... and I didn't even have to mention Snopes. :D
 
http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp
http://www.spp.gov/

Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP):
Myth vs. Fact

Myth: The SPP was an agreement signed by Presidents Bush and his Mexican and Canadian counterparts in Waco, TX, on March 23, 2005.

Fact: The SPP is a dialogue to increase security and enhance prosperity among the three countries. The SPP is not an agreement nor is it a treaty. In fact, no agreement was ever signed.

Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.

Myth: The SPP is being undertaken without the knowledge of the U.S. Congress.

Fact: U.S. agencies involved with SPP regularly update and consult with members of Congress on our efforts and plans.

Myth: The SPP infringes on the sovereignty of the United States.

Fact: The SPP respects and leaves the unique cultural and legal framework of each of the three countries intact. Nothing in the SPP undermines the U.S. Constitution. In no way does the SPP infringe upon the sovereignty of the United States.

Myth: The SPP is illegal and violates the Constitution.

Fact: The SPP is legal and in no way violates the Constitution or affects the legal authorities of the participating executive agencies. Indeed, the SPP is an opportunity for the governments of the United States, Canada, and Mexico to discuss common goals and identify ways to enhance each nation’s security and prosperity. If an action is identified, U.S. federal agencies can only operate within U.S. law to address these issues. The Departments of Commerce and Homeland Security coordinate the efforts of the agencies responsible for the various initiatives under the prosperity and security pillars of the SPP. If an agency were to decide a regulatory change is desirable through the cooperative efforts of SPP, that agency is required to conform to all existing U.S. laws and administrative procedures, including an opportunity to comment.

Myth: The U.S section of the SPP is headed by the Department of Commerce.

Fact: The SPP is a White House-driven initiative. In the United States, the Department of Commerce coordinates the ‘Prosperity’ component, while the Department of Homeland Security coordinates the ‘Security’ component. The Department of State ensures the two components are coordinated and are consistent with U.S. foreign policy.

Myth: The U.S. Government, working though the SPP, has a secret plan to build a "NAFTA Super Highway."

Fact: The U.S. government is not planning a NAFTA Super Highway. The U.S. government does not have the authority to designate any highway as a NAFTA Super Highway, nor has it sought such authority, nor is it planning to seek such authority. There are private and state level interests planning highway projects which they themselves describe as "NAFTA Corridors," but these are not Federally-driven initiatives, and they are not a part of the SPP.

Myth: The U.S. Government, through the Department of Transportation, is funding secretive highway projects to become part of a “NAFTA Super Highwayâ€Â.

Fact: Many States in the American Midwest are proposing or undertaking highway projects to improve or build roads as Federal-aid and State or private sector revenue becomes available. All projects involving Federal-aid funds or approvals are subject to normal Federal-aid requirements, such as review under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), including public involvement. This public involvement, the common thread among all these activities, makes them anything but “secret.†In addition, Congress directs Department of Transportation funding for specific highway projects.

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) will continue to cooperate with the State transportation departments as they build and upgrade highways to meet the needs of the 21st century. Rather than evidence of a secret plan to create a NAFTA Super Highway that would undermine our national sovereignty, the FHWA’s efforts are a routine part of cooperation with all the State transportation departments to improve the Nation’s highways.

Myth: U.S. Government officials sponsored a secret SPP planning meeting in Banff, Alberta in September 2006.

Fact: The U.S. Government did not sponsor the meeting in Banff. The North American Forum, a private initiative that is separate from the U.S. Government, hosted the September 12-14, 2006 conference “Continental Prosperity in the New Security Environment.†Academics, businesspersons, private citizens, and government officials from the U.S., Mexican, and Canadian governments attended the conference. The North American Forum is not a product of the SPP.

Myth: The SPP will cost U.S. taxpayers money.

Fact: The SPP is being implemented with existing budget resources. Over the long-term, it will save U.S. taxpayers money by cutting through costly red tape and reducing redundant paperwork. This initiative will benefit the taxpayers through economic gain and increased security, thereby enhancing the competitiveness and quality of life in our countries.

Myth: The working groups and SPP documents are a secret and not available to the public.

Fact: The SPP’s initiatives and milestones with timelines can be found by clicking the Report to Leaders link at www.spp.gov. The Web site contains a section to enable interested persons to provide input directly to the various working groups.

Myth: The SPP seeks to lower U.S. standards through a regulatory cooperation framework.

Fact: The framework will support and enhance cooperation and encourage the compatibility of regulations among the three partners while maintaining high standards of health and safety. Any regulatory changes will require agencies to conform to all U.S. administrative procedures, including an opportunity to comment. Enhanced cooperation in this area will provide consumers with more affordable, safer, and more diversified and innovative products.

Myth: The SPP is meant to deal with immigration reform and trade disputes.

Fact: Immigration reform is a legislative matter currently being debated in Congress and is not being dealt with in the SPP. Likewise, trade disputes between the United States, Canada, and Mexico are resolved in the NAFTA and WTO mechanisms and not the SPP.

Myth: The SPP will result in the loss of American jobs.

Fact: The SPP seeks to create jobs by reducing transaction costs and unnecessary burdens for U.S. companies, which will bolster the competitiveness of our firms globally. These efforts will help U.S. manufacturers, spur job creation, and benefit consumers.

Myth: The SPP will harm our quality of life.

Fact: The SPP improves the safety and well-being of Americans. It builds on efforts to protect our environment, improves our ability to combat infectious diseases, such as avian influenza, and ensures our food supply is safe through the exchange of information and cooperation ââ€â‚¬ improving the quality of life for U.S. citizens. Americans enjoy world class living standards because we are engaged with the world.

Myth: The SPP creates a NAFTA-plus legal status between the three countries.

Fact: The SPP does not seek to rewrite or renegotiate NAFTA. It creates no NAFTA-plus legal status.

It's on the government website. Facinating you know nothing of this merge yet your push your views the way you do. Might I suggest you get on some government websites above before you do any more posts.
 
That info directly contradicts some of the things you posted earlier. For instance, you posted that Bush signed an agreement, but your latest link says there was no signed agreement by Bush at all.

Please, don't take any of this as if I am picking on you; I am not. I've learned by sticking my foot in my mouth many times (and still do sometimes, LOL) to "Check My Sources!" It's what and good researcher or good reporter would do. :yes
 
Here is another contradiction cleared up.

Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.
 
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