Will those who come to Jesus, exclusively to be saved, lose their salvation on the last day?

[for_his_glory]

"Should I worship Him from fear of hell, may I be cast into it. Should I serve Him from desire of gaining heaven, may He keep me out. But should I worship Him from love alone, He reveals Himself to me, that my whole heart may be filled with His love and presence."

These are great and very wise words spoken as why are we serving Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Will those who come to Jesus, exclusively to be saved, lose their salvation on the last day ? why the last day? if truly saved i dont see it.. but then again it depends on who you ask​

It would not be losing their salvation, but being judged by God for they were never His own. It's like only giving lip service to the Lord walking in your own will thinking you will be saved in judgement.

 

[jerry63935]

It would not be losing their salvation, but being judged by God for they were never His own. It's like only giving lip service to the Lord walking in your own will thinking you will be saved in judgement.

they was never saved only 2 types people saved or lost

 

[jerry63935]

• Will those who come(or came) to Jesus exclusively for being saved, and not to do the Will of God ( which may include their willingness to lay down their lives down for Christ and the gospel) be condemned on the last day?
• Is it prudent to assure those who come to Christ by saying : “You are saved already since you have believed”

John 10:28 what does that say ? And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [a]by no means cast out.

here is the question do his will/obey him. does man walk in %100 obedience every day? what if we fail ? no mercy no nothing..
1 John 2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

yes we are to obey him and we certainly will give it our best shot. if were just giving lip service. then is our heart really with him ?

 

[jerry63935]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10

• that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

yup this is the bema seat of rewards judgment. no lose of salvation at this judgment

it is not the same judgment as the great white throne

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Hi Rajesh, I don't think JLB was saying you were causing division, but that by truth that Christ taught we should all be in unity of the truth Jesus taught as we are all one in the body of Christ. It wasn't anything personal directed at you. You bring much into the discussions and I appreciate that of what you post.

God bless you.

Yes I understand what you say and I'm appreciative that you recognize we, the Church of our Lord, are making collective endeavors to encourage and edify each other , to fortify each other to make it through the storm of earthly life with the priceless words of wisdom and guidance from the scriptures. First let me thank again this forum/ platform which makes it possible for us here to have a hearty discussion on various scriptural topics and edify each other. Truly I have learned tremendously from the members and moderators . Because it's interactive, as all Churches should always have been. Else there is the unfortunate possibility of uniting in error , if a Church teacher(s) is not adequately informed. A respectful, knowledgeable debate can lead to much edification in my humble opinion.
So I thank all owners, mods, and members for your efforts n contribution . ?
Coming to JLB, I would like once again to express my heartfelt gratitude to him for his amazing inputs here. I have great respect and admiration for his deep scriptural understanding, his fluency in expressing his thoughts , and above all his great love for our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the sole reason and purpose of my life and very existence.
I have learned a lot from him, sister wondering, some others as well, from way back November 2017. I also know that my interpretation of salvation as expounded by our Lord , often times differs from the conventional views held by many churches. And yes I perhaps didnt fully understand what JLB meant and I apologize for that misunderstanding. But if you know me JLB, my affection for you and admiration for your deep scriptural knowledge and commitment to our Lord is not one bit affected
Thank you again for sharing everything you do ?? May our Lord bless each of us with His wisdom and understanding so that we may accurately understand His Word, and implement His commandments. God bless everyone ?..lots of love ....Raj

 

[JLB]

yup this is the bema seat of rewards judgment. no lose of salvation at this judgment

it is not the same judgment as the great white throne

That is certainly just your opinion Jerry, in the face of the scriptures I quoted, it makes you seem as if you aren‘t concerned with what Jesus and Paul taught, but rather what your denomination teaches.

• Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

As we all plainly see from Jesus’ teaching, your statement is directly opposed to what the Lord taught.



When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:31-46


Here is examples of the deeds, both good and bad that cause some to inherit eternal life, while others do not.


Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

• for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
• I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
• I was a stranger and you took Me in;
• I was naked and you clothed Me;
• I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

• for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
• I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
• I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
• naked and you did not clothe Me,
• sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes I understand what you say and I'm appreciative that you recognize we, the Church of our Lord, are making collective endeavors to encourage and edify each other , to fortify each other to make it through the storm of earthly life with the priceless words of wisdom and guidance from the scriptures. First let me thank again this forum/ platform which makes it possible for us here to have a hearty discussion on various scriptural topics and edify each other. Truly I have learned tremendously from the members and moderators . Because it's interactive, as all Churches should always have been. Else there is the unfortunate possibility of uniting in error , if a Church teacher(s) is not adequately informed. A respectful, knowledgeable debate can lead to much edification in my humble opinion.
So I thank all owners, mods, and members for your efforts n contribution . ?
Coming to JLB, I would like once again to express my heartfelt gratitude to him for his amazing inputs here. I have great respect and admiration for his deep scriptural understanding, his fluency in expressing his thoughts , and above all his great love for our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the sole reason and purpose of my life and very existence.
I have learned a lot from him, sister wondering, some others as well, from way back November 2017. I also know that my interpretation of salvation as expounded by our Lord , often times differs from the conventional views held by many churches. And yes I perhaps didnt fully understand what JLB meant and I apologize for that misunderstanding. But if you know me JLB, my affection for you and admiration for your deep scriptural knowledge and commitment to our Lord is not one bit affected
Thank you again for sharing everything you do ?? May our Lord bless each of us with His wisdom and understanding so that we may accurately understand His Word, and implement His commandments. God bless everyone ?..lots of love ....Raj

Thank you bro. Much love to you.


In my first posts, I was showing how we are saved by grace through faith, in which we are given a new nature that is compatible with righteousness, so that we can indeed live our lives in a fruitful and pleasing way before the Lord, so we don’t have to hear these utterly frightening words from Him on the Day of Judgement, just as both Paul and Jesus taught us.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8





JLB

 

[jerry63935]

That is certainly just your opinion Jerry, in the face of the scriptures I quoted, it makes you seem as if you aren‘t concerned with what Jesus and Paul taught, but rather what your denomination teaches.

LET me correct you MY DENOMONATION has nothing to do with it. the bema reward seat is a judgment of our works. not our salvation . if our works is built on wood hay stubble it will burn up. tried by the fire if our works is built on gold silver precious stone .our works will stand the fire btw its not my opinion its Bible

{Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41} this is the white throne judgment for the Lost those not saved

 

[JLB]

{Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41} this is the white throne judgment for the Lost those not saved

The white throne Judgement with Christians?

No sir. This is when Jesus returns at the end of the age, and as Paul said, We all will stand before Him to be judged...

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11

As you can plainly see Jerry, these Christian brothers are blessed.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

• for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
• I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
• I was a stranger and you took Me in;
• I was naked and you clothed Me;
• I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

Not so with these...

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

• for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
• I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
• I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
• naked and you did not clothe Me,
• sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

JLB

 

[JLB]

yup this is the bema seat

You and I agree that this is the Bema Seat. The seat of Judgement. This occurs when the Lord returns on that Day, the Day of Judgement.

“Rewards” is not mentioned. Those are your words.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11

• that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
  

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8


Here are the two distinctly different things given on that Day:

1. eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
2. but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

JLB

 

[JLB]

A respectful, knowledgeable debate can lead to much edification in my humble opinion.

AMEN

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Thank you bro. Much love to you.


In my first posts, I was showing how we are saved by grace through faith, in which we are given a new nature that is compatible with righteousness, so that we can indeed live our lives in a fruitful and pleasing way before the Lord, so we don’t have to hear these utterly frightening words from Him on the Day of Judgement, just as both Paul and Jesus taught us.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8





JLB

Very well explained brother JLB. Completely agree, and implore everyone to please consider this post of JLB. We cannot deny Christ's words here . There will be a division on the last day. The words of rejection to the non obedient believers are indeed frightening. We can use that fear to gravitate further to Christ and obey Him. He says that in John 14 :15 "If you love me, keep my commandments " This is very basis of Christian faith. Solomon summarizes the entire message with similar words in Ecckesiastes 12 :13. Let us then love and fear Him and keep His commands.
My love and blessings to all. May the Lord's wisdom and love enter the depths of our hearts and minds that we may do His will over ours ?
One of my favorite verses is John 3:30:
John the Baptist : " He must increase, but I must decrease"
"

 

[jerry63935]

“Rewards” is not mentioned. Those are your words.

when do you think the spiritual crowns are handed out ? the white throne judgment ? {that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.} exactly what do think is going on here? lose of salvation kicked out of heaven ? if so your wrong

{in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:} once again this is not at the bema seat.

 

[jerry63935]

Here are the two distinctly different things given on that Day:

1. eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
2. but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

2 separate judgments

 

[JLB]

when do you think the spiritual crowns are handed out ? the white throne judgment ? {that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.} exactly what do think is going on here? lose of salvation kicked out of heaven ? if so your wrong

{in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:} once again this is not at the bema seat.

This in no way addresses my post or the scriptures I gave.

You are quick to proclaim that I am wrong but the scriptures don’t lie.


Here we see at the judgement seat of Christ, His people, His servants coming before Him for His judgement of their life.

Notice that the timing is at His coming, when He returns to earth to judge His people for what they have done with the life He has given them.


Some of His people hear these words —

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


Others of His people will hears these words —


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


The context leading up to His teaching about what occurs at His coming is also clear:



“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them...

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:14,24-30


Again here is what he said to His servant that did nothing with the treasure Jesus gave him; he was unfruitful.

• And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Just exactly what He said to those on His left hand who did nothing for anyone, and hid the life of Christ away they were given.


Unfruitful people who produce nothing with His life, are removed from Him.



Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;...
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6



The Judgement seat of Christ occurs when He returns, and judges each one of His people according to their deeds, as it so plainly teaches in Matthew 24-25.



His own servants is who is judged as we all can plainly see.



JLB

 

[JLB]

2 separate judgments

Yes. The Judgement seat of Christ is where His people, HIS OWN SERVANTS are judged according to their deeds.


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

That is exactly what is taking place in Matthew 25.


Please explain why you believe His people are judged with the wicked at the white throne judgement?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I think youre correct.

Though some of the verses you referenced were a bit out of context with the topic youre on target overall.

Anyone can seek salvation and Christ readily grants that. However,it is made abundantly clear throughout the bible via instruction and a variety of warnings not to fall back into our old ways and to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Basically,yes we are given the salvation but we are expected to genuinely repent and do the best we can in general.

Some would argue that this is a works-based viewpoint and that works cannot get you to heaven. It is true that our works cannot ever earn us our way in. But we are expected to be doers of Gods word to maintain our salvation status. Look at Pauls writing to some of the early churches who went astray, warning of their candle being snuffed out. Again,we cannot earn our way in on our own merit,but we are expected to be obedient and to help others along the way as we can.

Bear in mind much of what we see today are false conversions. People who want the warm and fuzzies but are never intending to undergo the complete life change and attitude rearrangement that comes with being born again. Those wont pan out in the end.

Hi LC,
Nice to have you aboard.

What you explain above, I think of in a very simple way:

Our works do NOT save us.
As I understand it, it's like this:
Works without faith do not save.

Once we become knowledgeable about God and accept that it is HE that saves us...
then everything you post above is true.

God expects believers to obey Him...
non-believers are already lost - no matter how much good they think they do, this will not earn salvation.

It is always faith that saves....
and faith without works is a dead faith. James 2:17, 20

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello sister Wondering. Always happy to read your words . True, that words Salvation and Saved should be guardedly used by Christians. Not rampantly and freely, as some use it in today's day and time. I do not.
Coming to dying for Jesus : Some of the ones who laid down their lives were ones who denied Him, when Jesus was on earth . Possibly not just Peter alone . You've raised a good point sister Wondering. Will we or wont we? Will I be able to lay down our life for Him... I do not know either way. Some of my friends in the army say, that some of their colleagues who were cowardly otherwise, something happened to them when they were in midst of action (war) and some of these emerged as great heroes and even martyrs. I believe Jesus's Spirit entered those who laid down their lives for Him, when the push came to shove, and beyond. Finally it would be the greatest honor if that could happen to me . Hope it does. Probability says it's not going to happen. Finally God's will be done either way. This is a prayer I'm obsessed with. "Lord Your Will Be Done" To the extent , no matter what I pray, if I pray, I urge the Lord subsequent to the prayer "Reject my prayer Lord, if it's not consistent with your will. Let Your Will be done "
It's after a lot of hard knocks, even as a Christian, that this one line salvation message of Bible finally entered my thick skull "Lord. Let. Your. Will. Be. Done! "
Jesus says in John 15 :13 (NLT) "There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."
This quote is not limited only to Christ laying down His life for us. But it's also His expectation from us whom He called Friends. That like Him, we may also demonstrate our love for Him in the same way. His apostles responded in the affirmative by laying down their lives.
Jesus says in John 15: 15 " I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."
It's a covenant sister. A covenant has bilateral obligations. Somehow it was reduced to unilateral. Everything was placed on Jesus. All we had to do was believe. And therefore I quoted a bunch of Christ words, caveats if you will, that whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever lays down their life for me will keep it . I take these words very seriously, since they are found throughout the four gospels. Sometimes more than once. I take these words to my heart and to my soul. And I do not desire salvation . Whatever Jesus hands out to me on the day of judgment is welcome. Even in those moments of my eternal destiny, His Will be done. Blessings upon everyone /\
[These above thoughts are mine alone. It is completely fine with me if some do not wish to agree. I will still respect you . By losing an argument to a brother/ sister I will win :]
I end this long post with words of Sadhu Sundar Singh , an eminent 19th century Evangelist in India . His thoughts resonate with my own :
"Should I worship Him from fear of hell, may I be cast into it. Should I serve Him from desire of gaining heaven, may He keep me out. But should I worship Him from love alone, He reveals Himself to me, that my whole heart may be filled with His love and presence."
(Sadhu Sundar Singh )

Agreed with all -- as usual.

Also about prayer.
We are not to treat God as a Santa Clause type figure.
He knows our needs before we ask....
and the Holy Spirit prays for us with wordless groans when we do not know what to say.
Romans 8:26-27
26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Sometimes a need is so great that I don't even know what to say or ask.

 

[LuciusClay]

Hi LC,
Nice to have you aboard.

What you explain above, I think of in a very simple way:

Our works do NOT save us.
As I understand it, it's like this:
Works without faith do not save.

Once we become knowledgeable about God and accept that it is HE that saves us...
then everything you post above is true.

God expects believers to obey Him...
non-believers are already lost - no matter how much good they think they do, this will not earn salvation.

It is always faith that saves....
and faith without works is a dead faith. James 2:17, 20

Hey there, and thank you. So far the community seems pretty laid back for the most part,Ive enjoyed my stay.

As for the rest, I agree. Most tend to look at one or the other and dont grasp the need for a balance of both.

Unfortunately much of that is due to the leaning biases and/or contorted teachings from many of the different denominations. So many conflicting ideologies are out there that it tends to muddy the waters quite a bit. Fresh faces come along and have a tough time figuring it out which leads to many giving up the faith or ending up in left field, far removed from the path.

But anyway,thanks again and see you around.