Women In combat

[handy]

My point is I do not see how we can get the goats and the tares to accept the Christian social moral code unless they first accept Christ as their Savior and become Christians. And even if we could do that and did do that, all we'd have then is a huge herd of Pharisees.

Bears repeating this!!! This is so absolutely correct!

 

[jasoncran]

I agree, I have heard that back in the good American days of well when America was a "Christian and god fearing nation" that well we lived godly lives. yet I recall that the blacks couldn't worship with the whites in my town. they had to be in Gifford( a black community then and now) after 6pm. they dare not cross the bridges to the barrier island unless asked by the rich to do work.or that the rebel flag was flown when the first mlk day was celebrated. yup we sure knew then how to please god

 

[Lewis]

ok. yes but its so pandemic in country. if they enforced it there wouldn't be much of an army left.

You are right Jason' we might only have 20 people left. And to you Jack' that is some scary stuff.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

generally speaking.....He aint any better then she, she ain't any better then he... we are just different.... and both sides should be thankful for the differences .. I wouldn't want a world with out you guys, and I hope you wouldn't want a world without us ...

Reba, I think thats a magnificient and very profound statement, packed with huge amounts of condensed wisdom, and I think its also a very romantic and beautiful statement too, one that honors God and honors His plan and design for men and women ...

... /big smile ... "Adam and Eve" forever!! ... "Romeo and Juliet" forever!! (and may all future "Romeos and Juliets" have happy endings and "live happily ever after") ...

As a tribute to all "Romeos and Juliets" everywhere here is the beautiful and talented Sarah Brightman and the Italian tenor Alessandro Safina singing the beautiful love song "Sarai Qui" (There You'll Be) to each other inside the beautiful St. Stephan's Cathederal in Vienna. "Sarai Qui" was first made popular by Faith Hill.

(paragraph is the link to the song ↑)

English Lyrics: http://lyricstranslate.com/en/sarai-qui-youll-be-here.html

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

`

 

[Jack Hectorman]

.. And to you Jack' that is some scary stuff.

/big grin ... Lewis, I guess by "scary" you meant the quotes from the feminists? Or did you mean the stuff about liberal Blue America's proud androgynous "males"? .. lol ..

In another vein, I tried to give you some help, post 58, on the Deborah thing. I saw where you said in your OP, "And please don't bring up Deborah of the Bible"__Lewis W.

I thought post 58 was successful in taking Deborah out of the "female warrior" category. Imo, no one is going to be able to make a successful argument based on Judges chapter 4 and 5, that Deborah was a "female warrior" that God sent to war.

What did you think of the arguments in post 58?

Cheers.

♫ ♪

 

[Lewis]

.. And to you Jack' that is some scary stuff.

/big grin ... Lewis, I guess by "scary" you meant the quotes from the feminists? Or did you mean the stuff about liberal Blue America's proud androgynous "males"? .. lol ..

In another vein, I tried to give you some help, post 58, on the Deborah thing. I saw where you said in your OP, "And please don't bring up Deborah of the Bible"__Lewis W.

I thought post 58 was successful in taking Deborah out of the "female warrior" category. Imo, no one is going to be able to make a successful argument based on Judges chapter 4 and 5, that Deborah was a "female warrior" that God sent to war.

What did you think of the arguments in post 58?

Cheers.

♫ ♪

• Deborah was a prophetess, a speaker of wisdom, but when war came she led the out-numbered and badly-equipped Israelite troops to a great victory.
• How? She tricked the over-confident enemy into driving their iron-wheeled chariots onto marshy land where they were bogged down. Then the Israelite slingsmen and archers picked them off one by one.
• Another woman, Jael, used a tent peg and mallet to kill the unwary enemy general, Sisera.
• Apart from Deborah, the Judges were hardly role models for the Israelites. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter, Samson murdered his first wife, Gideon promoted the worship of fertility gods, etc. Deborah stands out for her wisdom, courage and faith in God.

Themes

• The story of Deborah showed that a seemingly invincible enemy could be defeated, if the Israelites put their complete faith in Yahweh.
• Jael's story is similar to the story of David and Goliath. A weak person, Jael, triumphed over a seemingly invincible warrior, Sisera. The story ridiculed the Canaanite warriors: death at the hands of a woman was a shameful way to die.
• To drive the point home, there was an element of sexual derision in the story: male sexual symbols such as the hammer and nails were used, but by a woman against a man.
• Deborah’s achievement was significant because the battle gave the tribes their first access to the fertile and prosperous plain of Esdraelon/Jezreel.

The story is told twice

• in the Song of Deborah (Judges 5), a jubilant poem dated about 1125BC near the time the events happened. It has more detail than Judges 4, for example a series of curses on Hebrew tribes who failed to show up at the battle.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

..when war came she led the out-numbered and badly-equipped Israelite troops to a great victory.

/grin ... I thought my arguments in post 58 had demonstrated that it was Barak, NOT Deborah, that led the Israelite troops to victory:

The text never says or even suggests that Deborah did any fighting whatsoever. In fact, she specifically tells Barak that God commands him to do the fighting, while she is to be merely a decoy leading Sisera to be given into Barak's hands to destroy. ↓

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>She sent for Barak son of Abinoam<sup class="crossreference" value='(N)'></sup> from Kedesh<sup class="crossreference" value='(O)'></sup> in Naphtali and said to him, “The Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: [Barak] ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali<sup class="crossreference" value='(P)'></sup> and Zebulun<sup class="crossreference" value='(Q)'></sup> [you Barak]and lead them up to Mount Tabor.<sup class="crossreference" value='(R)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s<sup class="crossreference" value='(S)'></sup> army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River<sup class="crossreference" value='(T)'></sup> and give him into your hands. [ie Barak's hands]<sup class="crossreference" value='(U)'></sup>’” Judges 4:6-7

Baruk, not Deborah, commanded the army. Deborah merely went along with Barak and Deborah was not in command.

<sup class="versenum"> "</sup>There Barak summoned<sup class="crossreference" value='(W)'></sup> Zebulun and Naphtali, and ten thousand men went up under his command. Deborah also went up with him. Judges 4:10

It was Barak, NOT Deborah, that did the leading, did the fighting, and won the actual battle and the victory.

<sup class="versenum">16 "</sup>Barak pursued the chariots and army as far as Harosheth Haggoyim, and all Sisera’s troops fell by the sword; not a man was left. Judges 4:16

• How? She tricked the over-confident enemy into driving their iron-wheeled chariots onto marshy land where they were bogged down. Then the Israelite slingsmen and archers picked them off one by one.

Agreed, but after she did that, she gave the enemy over into the hands of Barak.
"I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s<sup class="crossreference" value='(S)'></sup> army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River<sup class="crossreference" value='(T)'></sup> and give him into your hands.<sup class="crossreference" value='(U)'></sup>’” Judges 4:6-7

• Another woman, Jael, used a tent peg and mallet to kill the unwary enemy general, Sisera.

/grin ... I note that when this woman killed Sisera with a tent peg, he was asleep. Some have said Jael was another example of a "woman warrior" in the Old Testament, but I note that driving a tent peg through a man's head while he is asleep is NOT a good example of fighting skills. Sisera certainly deserved to die. But there is no "Jael the female warrior" in this text as some (not you) have claimed.

... the Judges were hardly role models for the Israelites. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter, Samson murdered his first wife, Gideon promoted the worship of fertility gods,

Agreed.

etc. Deborah stands out for her wisdom, courage and faith in God.

Agreed. Deborah was a good woman, and a good wife and mother and she had wisdom, courage, and faith in God, to be sure.

The story of Deborah showed that a seemingly invincible enemy could be defeated, if the Israelites put their complete faith in Yahweh.

Amen to that.

A weak person, Jael, triumphed over a seemingly invincible warrior, Sisera.

The story ridiculed the Canaanite warriors: death at the hands of a woman was a shameful way to die.

Agreed.

Re "shameful death" in the Old Testament on being killed by a woman: Compare what Abimelek said when he knew he had been mortally wounded by a woman, and was going to die:

"Next Abimelek went to Thebez<sup class="crossreference" value='(AW)'></sup> and besieged it and captured it. <sup class="versenum">51 </sup>Inside the city, however, was a strong tower, to which all the men and women—all the people of the city—had fled. They had locked themselves in and climbed up on the tower roof. <sup class="versenum">52 </sup>Abimelek went to the tower and attacked it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, <sup class="versenum">53 </sup>a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull.<sup class="crossreference" value='(AX)'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">54</sup>Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and kill me,<sup class="crossreference" value='(AY)'></sup> so that they can’t say, ‘A woman killed him.’” So his servant ran him through, and he died." Judges 9:50-54

Cheers.

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[Lewis]

so my point would be that she had something to do with a male driven army in the Bible, but it does not state that she fought hand to hand combat. So my point is enforced' women should stay out of combat. There is no place in the Bible where women are fighting hand to hand combat. God did not create them for it' period.

 

[King James]

At this point in time with the world as it is, with America as it is, with the policies as they are, anyone that wants to sign up, for better or worse, that's your problem once you do.

 

[Lewis]

At this point in time with the world as it is, with America as it is, with the policies as they are, anyone that wants to sign up, for better or worse, that's your problem once you do.

Hmmmm' pregnant women on the battlefield

 

[Jack Hectorman]

`
Lewis W. @ 72

I understand and thanks for your explanation of your point.

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[Lewis]

By Phyllis Schlafly The push to repeal the laws that exempt women from military combat duty must be the strangest of all aberrations indulged in by the women’s liberation or feminist movement. The very idea of women serving in military combat is so unnatural that it almost sounds like a death wish for our species. Has our nation sunk so low that we are willing to send our daughters and young mothers into battle? Is chivalry completely dead? Breathes there a man with soul so dead that he will not rise up and defend his wife, his sweetheart, his mother and his daughter, against those who want to wound or capture them, whoever they may be? Most Americans were shocked to learn that at least one American woman is a Prisoner of War in the clutches of Saddam Hussein (and a couple of other servicewomen are missing), but the feminists see this as proof that women are advancing toward equality with men on the battlefield. In point of fact, women under Saddam Hussein are not equal, whether they are Iraqi women or U.S. POWs. Shoshana Johnson, age 30, of El Paso, Texas, the single mother of a two-year-old daughter, was part of a U.S. Army maintenance unit ambushed and captured after the convoy made a wrong turn. She had signed up to be an Army cook and never dreamed she would be sent into a situation where she could be captured by an evil regime. This is not only a tragedy for Shoshana, it's a humiliation for America and a step backward for civilization. No crisis or threat requires our government to send mothers of two-year-old babies across the seas to fight the most brutal terrorists in the world. The feminists, however, view Shoshana as a pioneer for women’s rights. A New York Times editorial brags that Shoshana’s capture shows how the American military has “evolved†and “the case for equal footing is gaining ground.†But, the Times bemoans, the military is “a laggard on the topic of women in combat†and still retains “glass ceilings†that bar women from direct combat. That is the kind of equality the feminist movement has always sought.

I had to post this again, especially the part about the captured female' and how they are saying that her capture is in the right direction for women. now is that crazy or what ? You know my first wife was in the Army but she never saw war and I am thankful.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7IW1_CEZww

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/sarai-...l-be-here.html

That was great! Thanks. She sings divine. Not too hard to follow the lyrics, the tempo is such that's relatively easy.
Amazing that I can appreciate music like this and hard rock also...

/smile ... Edward, Sarah Brightman is a beautiful creature, she loves all things beautiful, and always does all she can to present beauty to her audience. I am glad you enjoyed "Sarai Qui."

You mentioned you liked hard rock as well, in that vein, give a listen to Sarah Brightman sing Running. Its from the same DVD as "Sarai Qui" and inside the same cathederal too.

Here she is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNX2PjaTbH8

This song moves. Stay with it. They have a full orchastra AND a complete ROCK BAND too. This baby moves once it gets going.

Enjoy.

♫ ♪

 

[Lewis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7IW1_CEZww

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/sarai-...l-be-here.html

That was great! Thanks. She sings divine. Not too hard to follow the lyrics, the tempo is such that's relatively easy.
Amazing that I can appreciate music like this and hard rock also...

/smile ... Edward, Sarah Brightman is a beautiful creature, she loves all things beautiful, and always does all she can to present beauty to her audience. I am glad you enjoyed "Sarai Qui."

You mentioned you liked hard rock as well, in that vein, give a listen to Sarah Brightman sing Running. Its from the same DVD as "Sarai Qui" and inside the same cathederal too.

Here she is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNX2PjaTbH8

This song moves. Stay with it. They have a full orchastra AND a complete ROCK BAND too. This baby moves once it gets going.

Enjoy.

♫ ♪

Was that posted in the wrong forum ?

 

[Nick]

At this point in time with the world as it is, with America as it is, with the policies as they are, anyone that wants to sign up, for better or worse, that's your problem once you do.

Hmmmm' pregnant women on the battlefield

Oh come on now. That's taking it to the absolute extreme. I highly doubt there will be many pregnant women on the battlefield.

 

[Lewis]

At this point in time with the world as it is, with America as it is, with the policies as they are, anyone that wants to sign up, for better or worse, that's your problem once you do.

Hmmmm' pregnant women on the battlefield

Oh come on now. That's taking it to the absolute extreme. I highly doubt there will be many pregnant women on the battlefield.

Well Nick women and men living and working together in close proximity' lonely for love and intimacy need I say more.

 

[Nick]

At this point in time with the world as it is, with America as it is, with the policies as they are, anyone that wants to sign up, for better or worse, that's your problem once you do.

Hmmmm' pregnant women on the battlefield

Oh come on now. That's taking it to the absolute extreme. I highly doubt there will be many pregnant women on the battlefield.

Well Nick women and men living and working together in close proximity' lonely for love and intimacy need I say more.

And that should be their choice. Who are any of us to deny someone the ability to serve their country on the battlefield if they are fit enough?

Women put their lives at risk everyday. Just talk to female police officers, for example.

 

[reba]

How long are troupes on the battle field... My Grandson was deployed about 6 months a lot can happen in that time... If all is 'equal' what is the difference between an expectant father or mother.?

I remember in the 70s the California Department of Forestry 'adjusted' their standards so women could qualify .

 

[King James]

I agree with Nick. Can you legislate morals? Drugs, sodomy, and prostitution are not legal in most places for the most part in the America. So that means none of those things ever happen? How good of a person are you if your forced into submission not to do bad things? How much of your brain and will power that God gave you and intended you to use do you need if you are forced into submission not to be bad? Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. Or woman's. I like this video even though it doesn't exactly fit.

[video=youtube;LA_uwWPE6lQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA_uwWPE6lQ[/video]

 

[evenifigoalone]

Even with just men on the battlefield, they will look for intimacy for the women in countries they are fighting in. I was reading about WW I & II last school year, and there was quite a bit mentioned about that.