Hey All,
Now we are actually having a discussion on what matters. Don't get me wrong, salvation is absolutely important. So is baptism. But understanding each in their contribution to the overall process is important also. If a person receives Jesus and dies before they can be baptized, they are not going to hell.
Now to your questions: First wondering answered wonderfully. (Pun seen but not intended.) Let me see what I can add to it.
"I asked you How do you know Christ is in you?
I never got an answer.
help solve my quest for understanding.
"Repentence and faith toward God.
What would that look like? IS FAITH TOWARD GOD an action IN SYMBOL OR an action of the heart?" Quote from corinth77777
I heard grace through faith in Jesus described this way back in the 1970s and it stuck with me all these years.
Think of water as a symbol for grace.
God has the water.
You need it to be redeemed.
So God builds a pipeline in order to deliver the water.
The pipeline represents faith.
So it is the grace, which is delivered through faith, that provides us our salvation in Jesus. God did all of it for us so no person can brag that they received salvation by their own works.
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Some newer translations interpret "faith" as faithfulness.)
So faith is a fruit of the Spirit. Why does Paul call a fruit?
Think about what fruit does to the body.
It is nourishing.
It is refreshing.
Eating something sweet usually makes a person happy. (There is a whole part of the tongue devoted to sweet.) So there is a psychological aspect to fruit as well.
It only grows on healthy trees and bushes.
Fruit, actually, only grows on the heathy branch/vine of a healthy tree.
So ( to steal a little cadence from Jeff Foxworthy) if rhere is peace, love, and joy in your heart, you might be a believer.
Are you consistently longsuffering and kind towards others? Well you might be a believer.
Can people see the goodness in you?
Do you conduct your life with meekness - patience, humbleness? Are you tenperent - living a life of moderation, being soberminded?
Well you might be a believer.
If we bear fruit we are being watered by the farmer, through His pipeline, we are believers.
Isn't that a cool teaching on how we can know Christ is in us? I never forgot it.
Also, as mentioned above, faith (or our faithfulness depending on translation being read), is a work of the Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
If there is hope in our hearts, that is the evidence of things not seen (faith).
I hope this answers your question corinth77777. Its an important question.
"CAN ONE CALL ON GOD IF THEY HAVE YET TO BELIEVE WHO HE IS? WHAT I AM SAYING IS DOESN'T REGENERATION HAPPEN BEFORE FORGIVENESS OF SIN?
WE WOULD NOT CALL ON HIM UNTIL WE BELIEVED WHO HE IS....AND DOESN'T GOD CALL THINGS INTO EXISTENCE BY HIS WORD?" Quote from corinth77777
Short answer is yes. Once we have been given ears that hear, ( this is something Jesus said several times) and we hear it so that it makes sense to us, we know. At this point believers will receive Jesus, acknowledging in their minds what has happened to their soul.
Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Is this what you are referring to corinth77777?
We were God's children before creation ever began. God is never surprised.
I enjoyed the pickle analogy. As we used to say back in my hippie days, right on
! Or maybe this
since we are talking hippie. (We thought we were so cool.)
You touched on justification. Let's take it a little farther.
Jesus justifies us before the Father. He is our Advocate - lawyer, and
Propitiation - payment.
Paul said we are not justified by our works; it's a gift.
James said don't tell me you have faith. Show me by your works. (my paraphrasing)
How?
How do we justify this seeming contradiction?
If we are being nourished by water from the farmer, we should be producing good fruit. In real terms, I should be able to see how you conduct your life and, without asking you, know that you act differently; that you are separate from the rest of the world. If you are a believer, as you grow in knowledge, these "actions of the Spirit" become so normal, you are not even aware of doing them. Those works you produce, then, are the justification that you have received the gift of redemption.
Baptism:
We have gone round and round about it now let's talk about it.
1 Peter 3:18-22 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
This is one of the most difficult passages in all of Scripture to understand. Martin Luther admitted he could not. The overall message is clear:
Through Christ, through His suffering, death, and resurrection, we are vindicated (justified). We bear witness through, suffering for, and trust in, God to vindicate us.
Three points relevant to our discussion:
1. Christ suffered unjustly for us (3:18); through His physical suffering and death, we are justified.
2. through His quickening ( which means to make alive) Jesus is able to preach to the spirits in prison. (3:19)
3. Christ was justified through His resurrection and ascension. (3:18b, 21b-22)
The baptism spoken of is not a hindrance to salvation. If we look in the light of what Jesus said in John 3:5:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
We understand that;
The flesh is born of water, which makes up about 70% of the human body. (Luke, being a physician may have known that.) Our souls are born of the Spirit.
We then understand that water baptism is the outward, or public, symbol of what has already occurred to our souls.
(Not an easy passage is an understatement. These three points took me over four hours to finish. I wanted to make sure I wrote it correctly, and in a way that could be understood. )
Now, what about Paul (Acts 9:1-21)
particularly verses 17-18?
Acts 9:17-18 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Notice the progression
Paul was saved. We know this because his next action is one of obedience.
Then Paul is filled with the Holy Ghost.
Next he, Paul, received his sight back.
Then Paul arose, and was baptized.
If we don't take it out of context, which I have not, we clearly see that Paul is saved and filled with the Holy Ghost before he is physically baptized in water.
We know Luke, the writer of Acts was a companion and student of Paul. This is a first hand account - meaning it more than likely came from Paul directly. Remember also that Luke was not an apostle. He was not writing from memory.
I hope I at least added to the answers you received from wondering.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
we try to contain Him in- Just so we can have A get out of jail free card...
and spirit on the inside.
)