Works for Salvation: Humility

[Corinth77777]

Ok I asked two questions

What were they and why did you ask?
Because usually your questions are traps

Do you remember how the Pharisees try to trap Jesus..

Lol
I know your train of thought at this point...so either you are going to be able to look at scriptures from the scripture's context or continue not to humble yourself. FOR IF YOU HUMBLE YOURSEF your eyes may be open and you can know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Like this one for starts



John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

You see it does not say sanctify them by belief in Catholic Doctrines that takes scriptures out of their context and creates formulas. Im Guilty of that- God is more than the box we try to contain Him in- Just so we can have A get out of jail free card...

Rather sanctify them by the truth, the word.

That means you have to open up your Bible and read full passages to see the context. Asked God for help.

So if you are ready to do this, come out of trying to trap people and let the word of God speak to you.

 

[Corinth77777]

Its not always what we know, its how we come to know it.

There can be many truths in Catholic doctrine, But that doesn't make Catholic doctrine truth.

But when your foundation is Jesus
Then we see that God is predicated upon Himself

Truth then = Truth

And so the saying Let God be God

Romans 3God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Corinth77777]

Wondering, I'm speaking from what dona has written. As a man thinkieth in His heart so is He. So I am sure not all Catholics.

But people usually come to speak similar things who have first trusted in Christ, believed Jesus is the son of the living God, is God, master, ruler, creator of all. Etc.

And while one thing may seem a certain way, Dona believes through a lens. She/He has trusted in Doctrine First. Which is not the foundation. Jesus is. Which the outcome is religion, not relationship. Been there myself so I see clearly.

....
To your second comment thank you, I admitt I do not know much about the in-s and out-s of Catholicism. But what I am saying is the doctrine is of men. For it's not built off Christ, but a system of scriptures taken out of context.

For when one should be able to see through correction by scriptures that reject their scriptures used to defend their doctrine and does not: we know they are interpretting through a lens. Yet God's word cannot be put in a box. And the person is going to grow only in the limitation of their box.

It's like a person who has no outside view of the world, who has only lived in the house with one parent far away in the woods for their lifetime. They only see in regards to their environment.

And Catholic doctrine is like that, one sees only through that system, even interprets scripture from it. That is why the pharasee were blind. They'd yet to believe on Jesus. As recall from my senerio a person to be sheltered who has not been out in the world.


Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Another words in "first" trusting Jesus, coming to belief in who
He is is how one receives the Spirit...which I may talk about later. This is a foundational truth.

When you trust in doctrine before trusting in Jesus then what you may get is what I described already. Because now you interpret Jesus from the box.

Which one misses out on a relationship, where this relationship results in eternal life- to know the father and His son who He has sent.

So go back to verse 27 why are they like whitewash tombs?
For one. they have yet to receive a new heart by belief in who Jesus is. So in this sense of Dona we find through her/his words that They are concerned with outward aspects of Water baptism as something you must Do outwardly in order to be saved. Saved meaning receive the holy Spirit, But what is happening in Acts is not that these were not born again, but that their sins needed to be washed away.

Thereby which regeneration has to happen first in a Catholic like Dona life. Then the Gift of the Holy Spirit is knowledge of the presence of God at water Baptism. Life in the Kingdom

Where in this sense it does not matter (the "empty" words Dona speaks in telling one they must be baptized to be saved) Even though he/she may mean well- because of the Lens she/he view this by. Just something you must do. And in this case You can do it all you want and still may never have the reality of life that should have come to awaken you ( born from above) ; regenerated When you first believed.

Therefore if one has yet to be born from above, then their deeds cannot come from a heart purified by love. Nor can they see the kingdom.

The foundation must be Christ . Not scriptures taken out of context and formed into a box where which one view other scriptures from. That becomes circular and cultic.

Take this passage for example:

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire..

In red I high lighted than that is laid , not the pope, creed, papacy, or what ever had helped to put these doctrines in which people of the Catholics religion must believe for their salvation.
And I can't say all that I do not mean by this either.

Do you know why what is built off God will not burn
Because He is the beginning and the end of our faith.

Those that have first received Him as the son of God.
God = God

Unbodily personal power

What power is there in religiousity ? Empty tombs with out life.
It is His Life that gives us meaning, and His life in which we overcome the world. It is His life that sustains us.

He is our Spiritual food.

IT is God that is a consuming fire so when things are built off Him they dont burn...smile

God thank you for your revelations and your truth. Let those who come to seek you believe and by believing have life.
that the power of your life is RESURRECTED in them where which people will eat from and live!

If what I write is a tongue to you, then ask God to show you the truth whereby you may receive the Holy Spirit that unites us in God. For there Truly is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism.

May the Lord have a blessing to those, even me, that hear and do His will. In Jesus Name amen

Point is Jesus Christ is the foundation,

And one needs a new heart, outcome -a new direction.
So if I were to preach the Gospel it may be like this REPENT and believe this good news

The kingdom is at hand, available to enter now, for any one who believes who God has showed Jesus to be. The Son of the living God, creator of all, Master, Lord , ruler, King etc.

Forgiveness of sin and everything you need for life and Godliness is found in Him.

Now if one believe the word , I believe the word is Spirit and Life. So in believing the word they receive the Holy Spirit Therefore this would have made someone want to show allegiance to their king, to the word they have accepted through water baptism.

For if you look at water baptism scriptures its after they received the word, or teaching that they were bapized unto who ever taught them. (Which means God worked through, or spoke through His apostles.) So they weren't to be baptized unto the apostles but In the name of Jesus.

So look at Moses as a a type of Christ. They were bapized into Moses under the cloud and in the red sea. Why or how was that? Because they obeyed the word through His voice. But who were they really obedient to? God

Therefore we see the faith or faithfulness of the people was God. It's God who saves, from faith to faith.

Obedience to His words bring deliverence, life. Peace, and joy. Another words obedience to God's commands can be to protect us; Give us life so other can eat from us.


For to believe in Jesus meets the command to believe in the one He has sent And that is the will of the Father.

John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"Believes" is a continual word

This is a place where you recognize like doubting Thomas that He is Truly Lord and God. He said unless I see I will not believe.
That is why you must be born again have not just a physcal birth seeing with physical eyes, but a spiritual birth seeing with Spiritual eyes.

That:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

This is what came to me- and I can be wrong have been in areas before but test what is said by the word.

Test the Spirit ( the words I write) by the scripture

1 John
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[Corinth77777]

Deuteronomy 28 KJV - "And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken d..."

Read Deuteronomy 28 KJV in the King James Bible Online: "And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the...

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[Corinth77777]

I said a couple of things I had to think about
Which help me to see something.
As in Ephesians 1:13
And so I tested my own words

There are so many translations but God can give you the true word.

For example

Look at the difference in these 2 passages

Eph 1:13

Ephesians 1:13 - Spiritual Blessings

And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth--the gospel of your salvation--you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

biblehub.com

 

[Corinth77777]

I said a couple of things I had to think about
Which help me to see something.
As in Ephesians 1:13
And so I tested my own words

There are so many translations but God can give you the true word.

For example

Look at the difference in these 2 passages

Eph 1:13

Ephesians 1:13 - Spiritual Blessings

And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth--the gospel of your salvation--you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

biblehub.com

So where I believe I am wrong is this: one receives the Spirit by the hearing of faith.....

In hearing, I'm thinking, you can reject the truth or accept the truth. What does that look like? For obviously one can obey from the heart.

So here's my answer One obeys from the heart when they believe with intent to follow. They have received the Spirit then.
Therefore must have done in the heart what Jesus did in reality. Which is have the faith of Jesus. A faith that acts.
Another area of from "faith to faith"

Basically meeting a kingdom principal at its door.

So now what is done inside is manifested outside (the meaning of "confess with the mouth believe in the heart" passage)

Here is the confession what shown on the outside physically which now you are one, meaning the body is in alignment with your knew heart. This is why the act of faith, rather its water baptism or something else puts you in union with life the true baptism God Himself, because God is one. Here ol israel your lord God is one. Jesus was the Manifestation of God who is Spirit.
So here is from faith to faith represented again. Because to have a relationship with God who is one, you must also be one.
Meaning your body and Spirit must be in alighnment. Back in the garden.

So belief in Jesus with intent to follow= receive the Spirit
That Spirit you received is a faith that acts ( God- who is unbodily personsl power)

Now what about the Baptism that saves us now, well watch what should have happened (reality) not something we just talk up.
Once you were taught Christ you took and outward show in alligience saying you would follow your king and not your own rule which Satan brought in....you have surrendered your kingdom to God...Now what is in your Heart is manifested on the outside, cant help but to, God is in you He is power.

So now what happens When what is manifested on the inside has happened on the outside His kingdom has come. His kingdom comes with power. So the power of the heavens open up to you. Revelation, prophecy, boldness, miracles, etc.

Here ol israel your lord our God is one- We have the mind of Christ we are here to bring the kingdom in. Our common Goal- to make God known.

We are shown as adopted son at water baptism because we are born of the Spirit. And by which we receive our inheritance Life. The beginning and end of our faith...God.


For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

another words God is God

As Jesus verifies His son at His water Baptism
He verifies we are son, thereby He is not ashamed to own us as children. Heb 2:11 Tks God He even gives a taste of our inheritance, life. 2 Cor 1:22

And it is Life that is our Baptism
And who is our Life? God

I am that I am
wondering

The answer from God for a clear conscience is Life
Another words the answer from God is God.

And key note if all the answers don't narrow down to God then the foundation we're building from is not Jesus. Because He is the beginning and end of our faith.

Now I can be wrong been wrong many times but test the Spirit by the word.

Peace and

Adding: recall He tells us to pursue peace with all man for we cant see the kingdom...you know why because the kingdom itself is righteousness, Peace, and Joy in the Holy Ghost. So that is what I meant by "meeing a kingdom principal at the door."

Like doing what's in it

 

[donadams]

What were they and why did you ask?
Because usually your questions are traps

Do you remember how the Pharisees try to trap Jesus..

Lol
I know your train of thought at this point...so either you are going to be able to look at scriptures from the scripture's context or continue not to humble yourself. FOR IF YOU HUMBLE YOURSEF your eyes may be open and you can know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Like this one for starts



John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

You see it does not say sanctify them by belief in Catholic Doctrines that takes scriptures out of their context and creates formulas. Im Guilty of that- God is more than the box we try to contain Him in- Just so we can have A get out of jail free card...

Rather sanctify them by the truth, the word.

That means you have to open up your Bible and read full passages to see the context. Asked God for help.

So if you are ready to do this, come out of trying to trap people and let the word of God speak to you.

Ok let’s talk Peter
One subject at a time please they are large subjects

Is Peter’s person blessed or His confession?

Does Peter receive the keys of jurisdictional authority or does his confession?

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering, I'm speaking from what dona has written. As a man thinkieth in His heart so is He. So I am sure not all Catholics.

But people usually come to speak similar things who have first trusted in Christ, believed Jesus is the son of the living God, is God, master, ruler, creator of all. Etc.

Hi Corinth,
What you say is true of course.
Catholics, from times past, were taught to depend on their church. The physical church, the institution.
When I was growing up I was taught that if I followed church rules, I would go to heaven...maybe after spending some time in purgatory.

Go to church every Sunday, confess all sins to a priest, no meat on Fridays, etc. Can't even remember eveyrthing.
Alas, when I was a bit older I discovered that priests ate meat on Friday -
I never did understand why not going to Mass was a mortal sin. You mean, I miss Mass on Sunday, I die on Monday and I'm headed for hell?

So yes, our dependency, in those times not too long ago, were on the church.
I believe persons will be judged on the light they received, so I don't believe at all that those Catholics are lost because the doctrine was incorrect.

This has changed.

And while one thing may seem a certain way, Dona believes through a lens. She/He has trusted in Doctrine First. Which is not the foundation. Jesus is. Which the outcome is religion, not relationship. Been there myself so I see clearly.

OK. But we all see thru a lens.
I know the teachings of 3 denominations - to say nothing of Calvinism - and they each teach something or other a little differently. So which one is correct? This is why it's important to trust in Jesus. I've learned to read those red letters carefully and be a true follower of our Lord - as much as is possible for me; no one is perfect. Even some monks I've studied with don't think they're perfect, and they're the ones priests go to for confession, so if they're not perfect, I don't know who is. They live separated from society, and yet they feel like they sin. Maybe because the closer you get to God the more sensitive one becomes to what sin is.

...
To your second comment thank you, I admitt I do not know much about the in-s and out-s of Catholicism. But what I am saying is the doctrine is of men. For it's not built off Christ, but a system of scriptures taken out of context.

The Pope is like a CEO that must maintain the business the way it has been set up.
Actually when the Pope becomes elected he must take an oath not to change church doctrine.
Of course, this one has but he's getting a lot of pushback and his latest document, as have been others, is a disgrace for the CC. This is too much to get into here.

The only DOCTRINE/DOGMA that has been announced from the CC in hundreds of years was in about 1890 when Mary was declared born immaculate, and in 1954 when it was declared that she ascended into heaven and was not buried. I can't remember when was the dogma before this one but I'm sure it would be easy to find out.

So, no the Pope does not make doctrine.

For when one should be able to see through correction by scriptures that reject their scriptures used to defend their doctrine and does not: we know they are interpretting through a lens. Yet God's word cannot be put in a box. And the person is going to grow only in the limitation of their box.

The problem here is that the CC DOES believe its doctrine is biblical.
It also uses, however, the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, which is known as Tradition.
I've looked into this and, sincerely, I must say that it's not wrong.
But this also is another topic.

It's like a person who has no outside view of the world, who has only lived in the house with one parent far away in the woods for their lifetime. They only see in regards to their environment.

I agree with this. My eyes were opened to many different ideas when I left the CC at the age of about 28.
That's when I became born again and the CC had nothing for me. I joined my brothers church a few years later.

And Catholic doctrine is like that, one sees only through that system, even interprets scripture from it. That is why the pharasee were blind. They'd yet to believe on Jesus. As recall from my senerio a person to be sheltered who has not been out in the world.

This is true.
This is because the actual church is trusted.
I asked a born again Catholic friend of mine why she believes John 3:5 means baptism.
Her reply is because the church says so. I hear this a lot.
BTW, all my friends are Catholic now, and I'm very involved in the CC.

Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Amen. But those that are born again, do clean their heart first.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Another words in "first" trusting Jesus, coming to belief in who
He is is how one receives the Spirit...which I may talk about later. This is a foundational truth.

They're coming around. The new priests speak more the same language we do.
Not completely...but things are changing.

When you trust in doctrine before trusting in Jesus then what you may get is what I described already. Because now you interpret Jesus from the box.

Which one misses out on a relationship, where this relationship results in eternal life- to know the father and His son who He has sent.

Agreed.

So go back to verse 27 why are they like whitewash tombs?
For one. they have yet to receive a new heart by belief in who Jesus is. So in this sense of Dona we find through her/his words that They are concerned with outward aspects of Water baptism as something you must Do outwardly in order to be saved. Saved meaning receive the holy Spirit, But what is happening in Acts is not that these were not born again, but that their sins needed to be washed away.

I wouldn't go that for. Don is a guy.
And he's right actually.
Jesus did say to be baptized.
Who can fully understand why?
We just have to trust Him and do it.

Thereby which regeneration has to happen first in a Catholic like Dona life. Then the Gift of the Holy Spirit is knowledge of the presence of God at water Baptism. Life in the Kingdom

Where in this sense it does not matter (the "empty" words Dona speaks in telling one they must be baptized to be saved) Even though he/she may mean well- because of the Lens she/he view this by. Just something you must do. And in this case You can do it all you want and still may never have the reality of life that should have come to awaken you ( born from above) ; regenerated When you first believed.

But I think you agree that after believing, a person MUST at some point, become baptized?

Still too much Corinth.
Will continue after dinner.

*************************************************************************************************************

 

[GodsGrace]

Where in this sense it does not matter (the "empty" words Dona speaks in telling one they must be baptized to be saved) Even though he/she may mean well- because of the Lens she/he view this by. Just something you must do. And in this case You can do it all you want and still may never have the reality of life that should have come to awaken you ( born from above) ; regenerated When you first believed.

Therefore if one has yet to be born from above, then their deeds cannot come from a heart purified by love. Nor can they see the kingdom.

The foundation must be Christ . Not scriptures taken out of context and formed into a box where which one view other scriptures from. That becomes circular and cultic.

Take this passage for example:


For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire..

In red I high lighted than that is laid , not the pope, creed, papacy, or what ever had helped to put these doctrines in which people of the Catholics religion must believe for their salvation.
And I can't say all that I do not mean by this either.

I agree except for the creeds.
There are creeds in the NT actually.
1 Cor 15 is a creed.
It only means what one has to believe to be considered Christian.

Also, creeds were necessary in the early church because many heresies were being taught and that had to stop.
It had to be declared what Jesus taught, what the Apostles and the Apostolic Fathers believed to be Jesus' teachings, and that is why creeds were formed.
To combat heresy basically.

Point is Jesus Christ is the foundation,

And one needs a new heart, outcome -a new direction.
So if I were to preach the Gospel it may be like this REPENT and believe this good news

The kingdom is at hand, available to enter now, for any one who believes who God has showed Jesus to be. The Son of the living God, creator of all, Master, Lord , ruler, King etc.

Forgiveness of sin and everything you need for life and Godliness is found in Him.

Agreed.

Now if one believe the word , I believe the word is Spirit and Life. So in believing the word they receive the Holy Spirit Therefore this would have made someone want to show allegiance to their king, to the word they have accepted through water baptism.

Maybe we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism?
John TB said that one is coming after him that will baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.
So baptism forgives sin, as is stated in many verses, but apparently it does more.

For if you look at water baptism scriptures its after they received the word, or teaching that they were bapized unto who ever taught them. (Which means God worked through, or spoke through His apostles.) So they weren't to be baptized unto the apostles but In the name of Jesus.

So look at Moses as a a type of Christ. They were bapized into Moses under the cloud and in the red sea. Why or how was that? Because they obeyed the word through His voice. But who were they really obedient to? God

Really, Moses was obedient to God.
The people were being obedient to Moses and following HIM.

Most of those persons were sorry they left Egypt after a while.
They certainly didn't have the Holy Spirit like Moses did.

Therefore we see the faith or faithfulness of the people was God. It's God who saves, from faith to faith.

Obedience to His words bring deliverence, life. Peace, and joy. Another words obedience to God's commands can be to protect us; Give us life so other can eat from us.

This is true. But also you have to remember that people did not read the bible hundreds of years ago.
There was a lot of illiteracy.
They did depend on what their church told them...even the Protestants.
Just think of all the different denominations that were available after the reformation.

For to believe in Jesus meets the command to believe in the one He has sent And that is the will of the Father.

John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"Believes" is a continual word

Agreed.

This is a place where you recognize like doubting Thomas that He is Truly Lord and God. He said unless I see I will not believe.
That is why you must be born again have not just a physcal birth seeing with physical eyes, but a spiritual birth seeing with Spiritual eyes.

That:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

All good. But you can speak these things because you live now and you've studied the word.
This wasn't always the case.

This is what came to me- and I can be wrong have been in areas before but test what is said by the word.

Test the Spirit ( the words I write) by the scripture

1 John
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I believe you're correct in everything you've stated.

 

[Christ_empowered]

With the disintegration of community bonds and families…


The Catholic Church has declined right when humanity as a whole needs her the most. I dunno


I’m Protestant and remain so, but I see some of Protestantisms failings. Too much reinventing the wheel each generation too many splits too many conflicting doctrines and dogmas and too much individualism.

These days megachurches are growing. I find it frightening because it’s sort of the downsides of Protestantism meets a decaying society and dicey economic situation…


With self help and entertaining music and coffee shops in the lobby.

 

[donadams]

Reply to conrinth # 460

Please make more but shorter posts these are large subjects

You seem to forget it’s Christ’s box!

He founded it, he established it on Peter and the apostles

His church!
His revelation! (Doctrine)
His covenant!
His requirements!
His authority in the apostles!

Is Peter’s person blessed or His confession?

Does Peter receive the keys of jurisdictional authority or does his confession?

 

[GodsGrace]

So where I believe I am wrong is this: one receives the Spirit by the hearing of faith.....

In hearing, I'm thinking, you can reject the truth or accept the truth. What does that look like? For obviously one can obey from the heart.

So here's my answer One obeys from the heart when they believe with intent to follow. They have received the Spirit then.
Therefore must have done in the heart what Jesus did in reality. Which is have the faith of Jesus. A faith that acts.
Another area of from "faith to faith"

Good.
What about this....
When one believes, the Holy Spirit comes to him.
When one is baptized, the Holy Spirit DWELLS in him.

Perhaps this is the difference.

Basically meeting a kingdom principal at its door.

So now what is done inside is manifested outside (the meaning of "confess with the mouth believe in the heart" passage)

Here is the confession what shown on the outside physically which now you are one, meaning the body is in alignment with your knew heart. This is why the act of faith, rather its water baptism or something else puts you in union with life the true baptism God Himself, because God is one. Here ol israel your lord God is one. Jesus was the Manifestation of God who is Spirit.
So here is from faith to faith represented again. Because to have a relationship with God who is one, you must also be one.
Meaning your body and Spirit must be in alighnment. Back in the garden.

Agreed.
But what is the true baptism?
Believing or water?

So belief in Jesus with intent to follow= receive the Spirit
That Spirit you received is a faith that acts ( God- who is unbodily personsl power)

Very good.

Now what about the Baptism that saves us now, well watch what should have happened (reality) not something we just talk up.
Once you were taught Christ you took and outward show in alligience saying you would follow your king and not your own rule which Satan brought in....you have surrendered your kingdom to God...Now what is in your Heart is manifested on the outside, cant help but to, God is in you He is power.

Good.

So now what happens When what is manifested on the inside has happened on the outside His kingdom has come. His kingdom comes with power. So the power of the heavens open up to you. Revelation, prophecy, boldness, miracles, etc.

Here ol israel your lord our God is one- We have the mind of Christ we are here to bring the kingdom in. Our common Goal- to make God known.

Very good.
I very much believe that Jesus came to set up HIS Kindgodm.
(and we're all part of it - to make the world a better place).

We are shown as adopted son at water baptism because we are born of the Spirit. And by which we receive our inheritance Life. The beginning and end of our faith...God.


For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This is also part of a creed, BTW.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

another words God is God

As Jesus verifies His son at His water Baptism
He verifies we are son, thereby He is not ashamed to own us as children. Heb 2:11 Tks God He even gives a taste of our inheritance, life. 2 Cor 1:22

And it is Life that is our Baptism
And who is our Life? God

Great!

I am that I am
wondering

The answer from God for a clear conscience is Life
Another words the answer from God is God.

And key note if all the answers don't narrow down to God then the foundation we're building from is not Jesus. Because He is the beginning and end of our faith.

Now I can be wrong been wrong many times but test the Spirit by the word.

Peace and

Adding: recall He tells us to pursue peace with all man for we cant see the kingdom...you know why because the kingdom itself is righteousness, Peace, and Joy in the Holy Ghost. So that is what I meant by "meeing a kingdom principal at the door."

Like doing what's in it

Thanks for some great words!

Happy New Year!

 

[GodsGrace]

With the disintegration of community bonds and families…


The Catholic Church has declined right when humanity as a whole needs her the most. I dunno


I’m Protestant and remain so, but I see some of Protestantisms failings. Too much reinventing the wheel each generation too many splits too many conflicting doctrines and dogmas and too much individualism.

These days megachurches are growing. I find it frightening because it’s sort of the downsides of Protestantism meets a decaying society and dicey economic situation…


With self help and entertaining music and coffee shops in the lobby.

Many many bishops (all from Africa) are pushing back on this Pope's ideals.
He's splitting the church and this just cannot happen.

Happy New Year!

 

[GodsGrace]

Many many bishops (all from Africa) are pushing back on this Pope's ideals.
He's splitting the church and this just cannot happen.

Happy New Year!

I didn't explain myself properly CE.

ALL the bishops in Africa will not adapt the Fiducia Supplicans and will not bless SS couples.
ALSO many many bishops from other countries, including Italy, are pushing back on this document and will not adhere to the Pope's recommendations.

THAT'S WHAT I MEANT!


Happy New Year!

Christ_empowered

 

[Christ_empowered]

I’m all for doing…something…to include people and fight homophobia within the church ️ but…
Just as I think secular gay marriage says more about the death of marriage as an institution than about dedication to civil rights…


I think Christian groups affirming gay unions speaks to how worldly and increasingly irrelevant church has become…

 

[GodsGrace]

I’m all for doing…something…to include people and fight homophobia within the church ️ but…
Just as I think secular gay marriage says more about the death of marriage as an institution than about dedication to civil rights…


I think Christian groups affirming gay unions speaks to how worldly and increasingly irrelevant church has become…

Unfortunately, I agree with you.
I'm waiting to see what happens in the CC.
Only the ultra liberals like this Pope.
Everyone else is waiting for him to step down.
Only problem is: He's elected a lot of Bishops that are on his side.
So when the time comes to elect a new Pope.........
You get the pix.

 

[Corinth77777]

I agree except for the creeds.
There are creeds in the NT actually.
1 Cor 15 is a creed.
It only means what one has to believe to be considered Christian.

Also, creeds were necessary in the early church because many heresies were being taught and that had to stop.
It had to be declared what Jesus taught, what the Apostles and the Apostolic Fathers believed to be Jesus' teachings, and that is why creeds were formed.
To combat heresy basically.


Agreed.


Maybe we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism?
John TB said that one is coming after him that will baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.
So baptism forgives sin, as is stated in many verses, but apparently it does more.


Really, Moses was obedient to God.
The people were being obedient to Moses and following HIM.

Most of those persons were sorry they left Egypt after a while.
They certainly didn't have the Holy Spirit like Moses did.


This is true. But also you have to remember that people did not read the bible hundreds of years ago.
There was a lot of illiteracy.
They did depend on what their church told them...even the Protestants.
Just think of all the different denominations that were available after the reformation.


Agreed.



All good. But you can speak these things because you live now and you've studied the word.
This wasn't always the case.


I believe you're correct in everything you've stated.

Hi, tks 4 your response
I will hopefully respond later
But what I did browse through

Do me a favor and share all the scriptures where Jesus tells you or one to be baptized with water? Tks



Then share all the scriptures that say one must be water baptized or they will not be saved.

There are different baptisms and I think that needs to be discussed.

Do they receive the Holy Spirit @ baptism or the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Please share scriptures so we can look at them tks.

 

[Corinth77777]

Good.
What about this....
When one believes, the Holy Spirit comes to him.
When one is baptized, the Holy Spirit DWELLS in him.

Perhaps this is the difference.

Good take! , It's possible and kind of what I'm saying
However I'd add

To believe with intent to follow is to receive the Spirit
And when one acts in faith, obeying the Spirit "life" is manifested.
For usually we see the Holy Spirit is poured out on those who believe..meaning they have received His spirit already.

Plus I believe the Father is in the Son and the Father is revealed to us by Faith . The Open representation is for the world.

So while baptism may be a means by which one exercises faith
Or belief in Christ outwardly, one was baptized into Christ when they believed inwardly.

It is the exercise of our faith outwardly that is not merely for us, but that God is made known to the world in us.

Look at John the Baptist and His words about Jesus's Baptism

John 1


31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Recall God Knew who his son was, but did the people? He verified His son speaking from heaven. His son already was His Son before His Baptism.


Other Notes:

Yet I was looking at it from this passage:

Romans 3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I believe as Jesus words that He spoke were Spirit and life
That when you believe God's word you receive the Spirit.
Then when you obey the Spirit you know you have eternal life.

It kind of goes back to in the beginning [in John 1]was the word the word was with God (who is Spirit) and the word was God .

Therefore my thought (which I could be wrong) is when:
We receive the word we receive the Spirit of God


Could you call on the name of the Lord at Baptism before you believed?

And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
Romans 10 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Those that believe Jesus is the son are born of God

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

Romans 8(KJV)For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.


12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 JOHN 5
1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

Born of God - now this is and interesting concept looking at the 1 passages above.

Talk later bout it

Agreed.
But what is the true baptism?
Believing or water?

Since its Faith of Jesus that conquers the world, when we move by the power of the HolyGhost in what we believe (faith) then what happens?

1. One is forgiven of sins 1 John 1:7
2. Because one is forgiven they have access to the Father. 1 Peter 3:18
3. To know the father is to know the Son which = eternal life
To know the father is to know the son
Matthew 11:27, John 14,

John 17:33 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

Having the precept of water baptism Has many implications for me:

For example, dying in Christ to a system that governed leading to death, to raising to a new life under the Spirit that gives life

And what was baptisms


Hebrews 6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit

Very good.


Good.


Very good.
I very much believe that Jesus came to set up HIS Kindgodm.
(and we're all part of it - to make the world a better place).

Amen

This is also part of a creed, BTW.

My point is not that there may not be truth in the creed,
As I kind of said this earlier. But, I likes the way this person put it. I found this while I was searching about what the creed is, from the website attached below, "They tell us who’s in and who’s out—who agrees with the official line and who does not. But that’s also part of their limitation. God is bigger, deeper, wider and more innovative than any boundaries we draw. God is not a cat. God does not want to curl up inside our box. "

The Problem With Creeds

Creeds can be useful. Up to a point…They tell us who’s in and who’s out–who agrees with the official line and who does not. But that’s also part of their limitation.

thoughtsalongtheway.net

Great!


Thanks for some great words!

Happy New Year!

 

[Corinth77777]

Good take! , It's possible and kind of what I'm saying
However I'd add

To believe with intent to follow is to receive the Spirit
And when one acts in faith, obeying the Spirit "life" is manifested.
For usually we see the Holy Spirit is poured out on those who believe..meaning they have received His spirit already.

Plus I believe the Father is in the Son and the Father is revealed to us by Faith . The Open representation is for the world.

So while baptism may be a means by which one exercises faith
Or belief in Christ outwardly, one was baptized into Christ when they believed inwardly.

It is the exercise of our faith outwardly that is not merely for us, but that God is made known to the world in us.

Look at John the Baptist and His words about Jesus's Baptism

John 1


31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Recall God Knew who his son was, but did the people? He verified His son speaking from heaven. His son already was His Son before His Baptism.


Other Notes:

Yet I was looking at it from this passage:

Romans 3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I believe as Jesus words that He spoke were Spirit and life
That when you believe God's word you receive the Spirit.
Then when you obey the Spirit you know you have eternal life.

It kind of goes back to in the beginning [in John 1]was the word the word was with God (who is Spirit) and the word was God .

Therefore my thought (which I could be wrong) is when:
We receive the word we receive the Spirit of God


Could you call on the name of the Lord at Baptism before you believed?

And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
Romans 10 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Those that believe Jesus is the son are born of God

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

Romans 8(KJV)For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.


12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 JOHN 5
1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

Born of God - now this is and interesting concept looking at the 1 passages above.

Talk later bout it

Since its Faith of Jesus that conquers the world, when we move by the power of the HolyGhost in what we believe (faith) then what happens?

1. One is forgiven of sins 1 John 1:7
2. Because one is forgiven they have access to the Father. 1 Peter 3:18
3. To know the father is to know the Son which = eternal life
To know the father is to know the son
Matthew 11:27, John 14,

John 17:33 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

Having the precept of water baptism Has many implications for me:

For example, dying in Christ to a system that governed leading to death, to raising to a new life under the Spirit that gives life

And what was baptisms


Hebrews 6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit

Amen

My point is not that there may not be truth in the creed,
As I kind of said this earlier. But, I likes the way this person put it. I found this while I was searching about what the creed is, from the website attached below, "They tell us who’s in and who’s out—who agrees with the official line and who does not. But that’s also part of their limitation. God is bigger, deeper, wider and more innovative than any boundaries we draw. God is not a cat. God does not want to curl up inside our box. "

The Problem With Creeds

Creeds can be useful. Up to a point…They tell us who’s in and who’s out–who agrees with the official line and who does not. But that’s also part of their limitation.

thoughtsalongtheway.net

Something else hat came to me-
When do you believe these bear witness?
And how does this relate in anyway to us?



1 John 5

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, tks 4 your response
I will hopefully respond later
But what I did browse through

Do me a favor and share all the scriptures where Jesus tells you or one to be baptized with water? Tks

Baptize means to be immersed in water.

Then share all the scriptures that say one must be water baptized or they will not be saved.

same reply.

There are different baptisms and I think that needs to be discussed.

Do they receive the Holy Spirit @ baptism or the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Please share scriptures so we can look at them tks.

I don't understand the difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Do you mean speaking in tongues?
The gift could also mean the power to witness.