Changed from pretribulation to post-tribulation view of the rapture

[Nathan12]

Christ returns with His army of angels from heaven...

Christ returns with His armies of saints and angels (Rev 19:14). Not just angels. The same saints who are called the Lamb's wife. And the fine linen is the righteousness of saints (not angels).

This implies the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church, which is secret only in the sense that it has nothing to do with the unsaved world.

 

[John Prewett]

Christ returns with His armies of saints and angels (Rev 19:14). Not just angels. The same saints who are called the Lamb's wife. And the fine linen is the righteousness of saints (not angels).

Amen !
The sequence of events is plain by combining:

Rev 13:7 (Beast wages war on the saints) and
Rev 15:2 (having overcome the Beast, the saints are safely in heaven and
Rev 16:6 (blood of saints and prophets was poured out by minions of the Beast) and
Rev 20:4 (having been beheaded, the saints (who followed Christ from heaven)
"reign with Christ")
..............
[/QUOTE]

 

[dianegcook]

Christ returns with His armies of saints and angels (Rev 19:14). Not just angels. The same saints who are called the Lamb's wife. And the fine linen is the righteousness of saints (not angels).

This implies the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church, which is secret only in the sense that it has nothing to do with the unsaved world.

Yes
But...Rev.19:14
is after the wrath was poured out on The Mother Of Harlots,
Rev.19:2,3
Judged the Great harlot, hath avenged the blood of His servants.
The wrath

But whom is in heaven?
Rev.20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, judgment was given to them, saw the SOULS OF THEM that were beheaded, for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast.
Rev.6:9-11
Saw the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held...
Cried with a loud voice, How long dost Thou not Judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto everyone of them, told to rest a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren , that should be killed as they were....

The so called rapture / gathering is The Day of The Lord, Millenium Reign.
Here on Earth...
Rev.20:6
Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.
But they shall be priests of God and of His Christ, and shall reign with Him a 1000 years.

Mark 13:24-27
AFTER, the tribulation, shall they see the Son of man (coming in the clouds, )gather the elect from:
uttermost part of the earth
To
The uttermost part of heaven.

1Thess.4:14-17
Those that sleep, rest, in Jesus will God bring with Him.
Be caught up together ( with them in the clouds )
HE is coming here to reign.

Rev.1:6,7
Hath made us priest unto God..
Behold He ( cometh with clouds) Every Eye shall see Him, they also which pierced Him...

Rev.11:15-18, 7th trump, last.
kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord and His Christ and reign forever.
And the nations were angry, Thy WRATH is come..
give reward unto thy servants the prophets and to THE SAINTS...
This is AFTER the 2 witnesses are killed, Antichrist reign...

Not to offend anyone,
If folks can't see that the seals, trumps and vials are the same thing, I just can't understand how folks understand Rev.?

The seals are the knowledge (seal of God in the forehead, mind)
Of the 7 trumps and 7 vials.

The trumps is the action of the seals, so one will recognize the trumps being sound.

The vials are the wrath of God, being poured on the wicked.

The wrath only comes one time, also Jesus comes back one time..

Rev.6:17 Seal
Great day of His Wrath is Come...

Rev.11:18 trump
Thy WRATH is come...

Rev.16: 19 vial
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His Wrath.

My conclusion, The same thing.....trumps, seals and vials.

Most of the rest, in Rev. Just gets in vivid details about the trumps, and vials, and the Great White Throne Judgment, where there will be no more death..

 

[FrostyKnuckles]

Good change. No such thing as a pre-trib rapture in the Bible. Nobody can come up with that by just reading the Scriptures, it has to be taught to you.

Here is a simple rule: ALL has to line up with SECOND COMING, one second coming, not two phases.

Its weird to me to see the lists of "rapture passages" vs "second coming passages" and pre-trib pastors going "These cant be the same, one says its a blessed hope, but in the second coming Christ comes in fiery vengeance".......

Well yeah, its one second coming, its a blessed hope to believers, and a day of vengeance to disbelievers, its really simple.

Its what the Bible teaches, its what Paul taught, and here is proof of it:


2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rest to believers, vengeance to those who dont obey the gospel. Clear as day.

The famous rapture passage itself gives us the timing of the rapture, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says that us who remain to the .......... COMING of the Lord. So its at the second coming, the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST, so its the resurrection, which happens at the last trump, when Jesus returns.

If someone makes the claim that Matthew 24:31 isnt the rapture, OK i got no problem with it, but it means the last trumpet of Corinthians cant happen before Matthew 24:31 or Revelation 11:15ff because, then it wouldnt be the LAST trumpet no more.

This rapture(or biblically; resurrection) timing thing is such an easy task to figure out, thats why there is no recorded debates of it in church history, cause its not in Scripture to discuss. Its ONE VERSE(or two if you count 1Cor 15:51ff) and it mentions those who remain to the Lord's coming.

I believe this doctrine is around for one reason only: To cause believers to be UNPREPARED for whats coming. Itching ears doctrine, thats my view, hope I didnt sound rude, just hope many people have an "A-haa" moment, like the OP did. Praise God

 

[Christ_empowered]

i hate to say it...because im close to a pre-trib believer...but its kinda like....escapism, painting a picture of Jesus beaming the good believers away, before it gets rough....

and i dont think its accurate. the overall message about following Christ is...it isn't always easy..."...count the costs...," "in the world but not of it..." "follower of Christ or a follower of mammon..."

and I think the End Times...especially for those of us (pointing at -me- here) who live in "Christian" areas, will be rocked out of comfort zone with what will come upon us. and in a lot of places...its happening, already...sometimes its violent, sometimes its not, not directly at least...

 

[Christ_empowered]

oh, and...i blame the church leaders, more than the laity. they tell over worked, faithful people want they want to hear+extra...

and its wrong, of course. and it gives the established church as a whole a bad rep. altho...here in the us...


the church is kind of earning a bad rep. :-(

 

[for_his_glory]

Good change. No such thing as a pre-trib rapture in the Bible. Nobody can come up with that by just reading the Scriptures, it has to be taught to you.

Here is a simple rule: ALL has to line up with SECOND COMING, one second coming, not two phases.

Its weird to me to see the lists of "rapture passages" vs "second coming passages" and pre-trib pastors going "These cant be the same, one says its a blessed hope, but in the second coming Christ comes in fiery vengeance".......

Well yeah, its one second coming, its a blessed hope to believers, and a day of vengeance to disbelievers, its really simple.

Its what the Bible teaches, its what Paul taught, and here is proof of it:


2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rest to believers, vengeance to those who dont obey the gospel. Clear as day.

The famous rapture passage itself gives us the timing of the rapture, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says that us who remain to the .......... COMING of the Lord. So its at the second coming, the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST, so its the resurrection, which happens at the last trump, when Jesus returns.

If someone makes the claim that Matthew 24:31 isnt the rapture, OK i got no problem with it, but it means the last trumpet of Corinthians cant happen before Matthew 24:31 or Revelation 11:15ff because, then it wouldnt be the LAST trumpet no more.

This rapture(or biblically; resurrection) timing thing is such an easy task to figure out, thats why there is no recorded debates of it in church history, cause its not in Scripture to discuss. Its ONE VERSE(or two if you count 1Cor 15:51ff) and it mentions those who remain to the Lord's coming.

I believe this doctrine is around for one reason only: To cause believers to be UNPREPARED for whats coming. Itching ears doctrine, thats my view, hope I didnt sound rude, just hope many people have an "A-haa" moment, like the OP did. Praise God

These pre-trib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. These pretrib teachings were never taught before the 1800's as none of it is found in scripture.

 

[Nathan12]

Here is a simple rule: ALL has to line up with SECOND COMING, one second coming, not two phases.

The Rapture is not a phase of the Second Coming of Christ. It is an event reserved strictly for the children of God, and it is practically instantaneous. Also it must occur before the Tribulation for the simple reason that the children of God are not subject to God's wrath. Christ took the brunt of that wrath on our behalf at the cross.

Those who understand the Tribulation as a period of divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked, also understand why that is definitely not reserved for Christians. And the church at Philadelphia is a type of the true Church of God (which will not go through the Tribulation).
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:10).

 

[JLB]

1. "The last trump" (also called "the trump of God") is the last trumpet call for those who are in Christ. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the seven trumpets of the 7th seal, all of which herald judgments upon the unbelieving and the ungodly.

2. Also the trumpet which sends the angels to gather "the elect" is not the same of the last trump for the Church. Those "elect" are the believing Jewish remnant gathered after the Second Coming of Christ.

3. When you study the Rapture, it is Christ Himself (the divine Bridegroom) who comes to gather the saints (the Bride) unto Himself. He does not send angels as proxies. And these saints are present with Him when He sends out the angels for the elect.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4



The resurrection, rapture, and the destruction of the wicked all occur at His coming.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them.

It’s also important to understand that the Day of the Lord does not come as a thief in the night for believers, but for unbelievers.

• But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Scripture teaches that the Day of the Lord is not imminent for believers, as we have the signs He left for us to watch for.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The Rapture is not a phase of the Second Coming of Christ. It is an event reserved strictly for the children of God, and it is practically instantaneous. Also it must occur before the Tribulation for the simple reason that the children of God are not subject to God's wrath. Christ took the brunt of that wrath on our behalf at the cross.

The children of God who are obedient will be caught up together with Him in the air, when He pours out His wrath on the wicked.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, occur before he pours out His wrath on the wicked.

• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4



The resurrection, rapture, and the destruction of the wicked all occur at His coming.





JLB

 

[FrostyKnuckles]

The Rapture is not a phase of the Second Coming of Christ. It is an event reserved strictly for the children of God, and it is practically instantaneous. Also it must occur before the Tribulation for the simple reason that the children of God are not subject to God's wrath. Christ took the brunt of that wrath on our behalf at the cross.

Those who understand the Tribulation as a period of divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked, also understand why that is definitely not reserved for Christians. And the church at Philadelphia is a type of the true Church of God (which will not go through the Tribulation).
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:10).

Ah, that argument.

We are not appointed to wrath.. well, what wrath is it talking about?

Could it be the wrath that I mentioned:

2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Makes it clear, rest to believers, vengeance to unbelievers. Thats the wrath we wont face, we dont get everlasting destruction from teh presence of the Lord.

God has no problem protecting His people, take a look at the plagues of Egypt, Israel wasnt beamed out of there, but they were protected. Same story here.

There is no mention of any "church ages" in the book of Revelation. Its adressed to literal churches in the 1st century. Surely that promise in Rev 3:10 applied to them in some way? Pre-tribbers and dispies would be screaming at others for "allegorizing" scripture if we tried to make a point abotu "Philadelphia being a type of the true Church", we would never get away with it, its only done by dispies/pre-tribbers out of necessity to protect their doctrine.

Also to be kept from the hour of trial does not mean to be taken away from, this can be seen clearly.

To keep:
τηρέω
tēreō
Thayer Definition:
1) to attend to carefully, take care of
1a) to guard
1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is
1c) to observe
1d) to reserve: to undergo something

Here is more proof from within the Bible, same word, keep:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Keep from the evil, yet not beamed up out of the world, specifically Jesus prays they wont be taken out of the world.

Look: We got a job to do, and that job lasts until the end of the world, the great commission itself refutes the pre-trib rapture:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Gospel will be spread by the church, UNTIL the end of the world, Jesus will be with us until that time.

Do you see it friend? No pre-trib rapture.

 

[Nathan12]

The resurrection, rapture, and the destruction of the wicked all occur at His coming.

That would be a spiritual and physical impossibility. There is a SEQUENCE of events which follow upon each other logically.

 

[for_his_glory]

That would be a spiritual and physical impossibility. There is a SEQUENCE of events which follow upon each other logically.

Why do you see it as an impossibility and what are these logical sequences of events.

All these scriptures listed refute a pretrib rapture of the saints of God: Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19:11-21

The 7th trumpet, being the last trumpet is sounded in Rev 11:15. All the events are chronological as in order of those things that will come beginning with the war in heaven between Michael and Satan as Satan has no more access to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Then we have the beast out of the sea and out of the earth that will cause many to bow down and take its mark and those saints of God who do not denounce Him and did not heed the warning of Christ telling us to flee this abomination will be held captive and will be persecuted to death for not taking the mark of the beast.

Now comes the seven file judgements, (which are a part of the sounding of the seventh trumpet), poured out on those who took the mark of the beast, but yet they do not die. Then mystery Babylon is described and and then destroyed as when Jesus returns on the last day and sends His angels out to gather us up to Him (those alive at His coming and those who sleep in their graves) while He destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lack of fire and all those who followed after the beast and false prophet will Jesus slain. Now we come into the time Satan is bound for a time and then released as he leads his last rebellion against the saints who are now all gathered together with Jesus and then Satan is cast into the lake of fire, God's judgement comes, the earth and heaven are renewed and the New Jerusalem is sent down where we will dwell with the Lord forever.

 

[GodsGrace]

It just makes more sense to me. At the last trump, after the sun turns dark and moon turns to blood, the angels will gather together his elect from the four corners of the earth. It makes sense with what Jesus says in Matthew 24, and what Paul says in Thessalonians, with what John says in the book of Revelation, and also with Daniel. I've been trying to fit a round peg in a square hole all this time, until I accepted that post-tribulation better describes the rapture.

Good for you DougK...

There's no such thing as a "rapture".
Jesus is coming back one time....that's at the end of the world.
That's it.

But what does "one will be taken, one will be left" mean?
Have you figured that out yet?
It's been figured out by some smart theologians and/or biblical scholars.

 

[Nathan12]

Why do you see it as an impossibility and what are these logical sequences of events.

The short answer is that the Resurrection/Rapture is the culmination of salvation for saints, therefore a time of perfect joy and bliss. On the other hand the Second Coming of Christ is four the outpouring of His wrath against His enemies, therefore a time of universal mourning. So God would never blend these two significant and DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED events into one single event. Indeed it would be absurd when one thinks about it carefully.

As to the sequence of events, the Rapture precedes the Second Coming by at least 7-10 years in order to allow all God's judgments to be fulfilled as described in Revelation 6-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

As to the sequence of events, the Rapture precedes the Second Coming by at least 7-10 years in order to allow all God's judgments to be fulfilled as described in Revelation 6-18.

Please show me the scripture where it points out 7-10 years before the second coming of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

On the last day when Christ returns.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[JLB]

That would be a spiritual and physical impossibility. There is a SEQUENCE of events which follow upon each other logically.

It’s actually, exactly the biblical sequence of events.

It’s all plainly written right here in 1 Thessalonians:

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3

​

​

Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.​

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And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8​

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​

​

The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming. ​

​

​

​

Three distinct and irrefutable things that take place at His coming: In order.​

​

​

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Good for you DougK...

There's no such thing as a "rapture".
Jesus is coming back one time....that's at the end of the world.
That's it.

But what does "one will be taken, one will be left" mean?
Have you figured that out yet?
It's been figured out by some smart theologians and/or biblical scholars.

I know you were asking DougK this question, but thought I would throw this in for some understanding.

One shall be taken and one will be left behind means at the midnight hour (not meaning Christ returns at midnight) when Christ returns those who are His own that have prepared themselves to be His Bride will be taken up to Him and those who are not prepared will be left behind to stand in God's great white throne judgment as they have already damned themselves to the lake of fire. It's like what is written in Matthew 25:1-13 and John 5:28, 29.

Another reference to the midnight hour is found in Exodus 11:4, 5, but in a reverse sense of taken and left behind.

Exodus 11:4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: 5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

 

[FrostyKnuckles]

Good for you DougK...

There's no such thing as a "rapture".
Jesus is coming back one time....that's at the end of the world.
That's it.

But what does "one will be taken, one will be left" mean?
Have you figured that out yet?
It's been figured out by some smart theologians and/or biblical scholars.

I got you.

Its easily figured out by cross-referencing scriptures.

It ironically is, the exact opposite of what we are told, its GOOD to not be taken. To be taken means you go into judgment:


Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Look up Revelation 19, you see Jesus returning, birds gathering to eat the flesh of mighty men, captains etc, gathered against Christ. NOT GOOD.

Another witness:


Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again, in context, who was taken in Noah's flood? Thewicked, flood came and took them all away.

So there you go, its not a good thing to be taken. This same idea is carried in the Parables of Matthew 13 too