Changed from pretribulation to post-tribulation view of the rapture

[for_his_glory]

Again, only man's theory . Well, actually a woman made it famous.
Made famous by the Seventh Day Adventist cult.

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I have already told you I am not a Mormon nor do I follow this ladies heretic teachings. It would do you well to get your nose out of that website you love to believe and go read Daniel 7 and compare that to Rev 13:1-4 and Rev 17 and do the history from the time of Nimrod and all the ten nations, especially the last seven remaining nations today.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, I agree with most of what you stated, but the Roman Empire, deadly wound, and such happening already, I don't know.

So you are saying that the man of sin, son of perdition, antichrist man will be possessed?
But not the latter?

I read up on the blue beam project, it was astonishing!
Hopefully this conspiracy theory, will not come to pass.
Just remember, if you are still in the flesh, pinch yourself, lol, then it be the fake one.

Hope NASA has better sense than that.

The son of perdition is the false prophet/last antichrist/a man of lawlessness that is not possessed of Satan, but is a follower of Satan that will literally take his seat in Jerusalem and with lying signs and wonders will deceive those into bowing to him and worship him causing those who have not truth to take his mark.

 

[for_his_glory]

dianegcook Here is the full details of Daniel Chapter 7. Take your time studying this as the son of perdition has been chosen out of the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 13
The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian economic, political and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seven trumpets, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

Tribulation has never been divided in sections and no where in scripture does it define any seven years as scripture say we will always have tribulations, Deut 4:30; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1Peter 1:6.

In Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

 

[dianegcook]

The son of perdition is the false prophet/last antichrist/a man of lawlessness that is not possessed of Satan, but is a follower of Satan that will literally take his seat in Jerusalem and with lying signs and wonders will deceive those into bowing to him and worship him causing those who have not truth to take his mark.

Ok, got you.
I always thought it was Satan himself.

 

[dianegcook]

dianegcook Here is the full details of Daniel Chapter 7. Take your time studying this as the son of perdition has been chosen out of the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 13
The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian economic, political and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seven trumpets, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

Tribulation has never been divided in sections and no where in scripture does it define any seven years as scripture say we will always have tribulations, Deut 4:30; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1Peter 1:6.

In Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

Studying, this will be a long one, lol.
Daniel 7:2
Behold the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea (people)
I think the 4 winds is symbolic for end times.
Rev.7:1 four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth.
Yes in agreement with the system,
Rev.13:11
Had 2 horns like a lamb, but spake as a Dragon.
I think symbolic as the fake lamb on Mt. Zion.
Rev.11:7,8
Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit, shall make war...where also our Lord was crucified.

So you are saying,
The system crumbled, one world order, saying it was Rome.
Daniel 7:8-11
I always thought that the little horn was the false Christ.
...in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake, I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Rev.19:20
And the beast was taken,(one world order) and with Him the false prophet, they both were cast into the lake of fire.

Dan.7:23,24
And shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

I see no place in history to validate that.

Dan.7:24
10 kings that shall rise...
I believe this to be Satan and His fallen angels.
Rev.17:12
And the 10 horns which thou savest are 10 kings, which have received no kingdom yet, but receive power as kings, one hour with the beast.

7 heads
Rev.17:7-11
Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots, which hath the 7 heads and 10 horns.
The beast that thou savest was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit....

There are 7 kings, 5 are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short time.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the 7 and goeth into perdition.

This is different roles that Satan plays.
Satan is all 7 and 8th.

Continued..

 

[dianegcook]

Continued..
I see what you are saying, about the nations, could be symbolic.
Most of Rev.is symbolic.
CONCERNING Rev.12:3-
Yes, he is furious with mother Israel, that brought forth Jesus...
Went to make war with the remnant of her seed, followers of Christ, also.
Rev.12:12
He hath great wrath because he knoweth he has a short time...

I believe the time was shortened to 5 months, according to Rev.9:5
The tribulation period.

Dan.12:4
shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.
Dan.12:9,10
go thy way, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end...the wise shall understand...

Rev.6:1-17 Rev.7:1-17
sealed opened, upon their forehead, knowledge

the seals are the knowledge of the 7 trumps and 7 vials, that are about to sound.

so everything is not in order, the seals, trumps and vials, are one and the same.
Thanks for the study, God bless.

 

[for_his_glory]

Studying, this will be a long one, lol.
Daniel 7:2
Behold the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea (people)
I think the 4 winds is symbolic for end times.
Rev.7:1 four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth.
Yes in agreement with the system,
Rev.13:11
Had 2 horns like a lamb, but spake as a Dragon.
I think symbolic as the fake lamb on Mt. Zion.
Rev.11:7,8
Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit, shall make war...where also our Lord was crucified.

So you are saying,
The system crumbled, one world order, saying it was Rome.
Daniel 7:8-11
I always thought that the little horn was the false Christ.
...in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake, I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Rev.19:20
And the beast was taken,(one world order) and with Him the false prophet, they both were cast into the lake of fire.

Dan.7:23,24
And shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

I see no place in history to validate that.

Dan.7:24
10 kings that shall rise...
I believe this to be Satan and His fallen angels.
Rev.17:12
And the 10 horns which thou savest are 10 kings, which have received no kingdom yet, but receive power as kings, one hour with the beast.

7 heads
Rev.17:7-11
Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots, which hath the 7 heads and 10 horns.
The beast that thou savest was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit....

There are 7 kings, 5 are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short time.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the 7 and goeth into perdition.

This is different roles that Satan plays.
Satan is all 7 and 8th.

Continued..

The four winds of Daniel 7:2, 3 are four beast. In the description Daniel gives these are four Empires: Babylonian Empire, Medo - Persian Empire, Grecian Empire, Roman Empire.

Daniel speaks of two horns in Daniel 8:3 and again we read about two horns in Rev 13:11. Daniel said one horn was higher than the other and the higher one came up last. Rev 13:11 John sees in his vision another beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb and he spake like a dragon. We know the dragon is a reference to Satan as the beast out of the sea is a Luciferian system of economics, political and false religious power that rules the government in many nations.

The beast out of the earth being the son of perdition explained in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, (Luciferian system) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed, Rev 13:12.

Recap: Satan being the dragon, gives power to this Luciferian system (beast out of the sea). The Roman Empire (beast out of the sea) who received a deadly wound in 1798 and the wound was healed in 1929. The son of perdition comes out of the revived Roman Empire as he exercises all the power of the first beast

Rev 11:7, 8. The beast that comes out from the bottomless pit is the same beast out of the sea in Rev 13:1 and Daniel 7:19-25. All i can say it is a corrupt political power much like the one who had Jesus crucified.

This system being the Roman Empire did crumble in 1798 The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27 represents the Roman Empire as
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The ten kings are the kings from the ten nations which were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

 

[for_his_glory]

Continued..
I see what you are saying, about the nations, could be symbolic.
Most of Rev.is symbolic.
CONCERNING Rev.12:3-
Yes, he is furious with mother Israel, that brought forth Jesus...
Went to make war with the remnant of her seed, followers of Christ, also.
Rev.12:12
He hath great wrath because he knoweth he has a short time...

I believe the time was shortened to 5 months, according to Rev.9:5
The tribulation period.

Dan.12:4
shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.
Dan.12:9,10
go thy way, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end...the wise shall understand...

Rev.6:1-17 Rev.7:1-17
sealed opened, upon their forehead, knowledge

the seals are the knowledge of the 7 trumps and 7 vials, that are about to sound.

so everything is not in order, the seals, trumps and vials, are one and the same.
Thanks for the study, God bless.

I only wish I could put the full article I wrote on this, but it's very long, plus some parts come against the ToS. I love studying with you

 

[dianegcook]

The four winds of Daniel 7:2, 3 are four beast. In the description Daniel gives these are four Empires: Babylonian Empire, Medo - Persian Empire, Grecian Empire, Roman Empire.

Daniel speaks of two horns in Daniel 8:3 and again we read about two horns in Rev 13:11. Daniel said one horn was higher than the other and the higher one came up last. Rev 13:11 John sees in his vision another beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb and he spake like a dragon. We know the dragon is a reference to Satan as the beast out of the sea is a Luciferian system of economics, political and false religious power that rules the government in many nations.

The beast out of the earth being the son of perdition explained in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, (Luciferian system) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed, Rev 13:12.

Recap: Satan being the dragon, gives power to this Luciferian system (beast out of the sea). The Roman Empire (beast out of the sea) who received a deadly wound in 1798 and the wound was healed in 1929. The son of perdition comes out of the revived Roman Empire as he exercises all the power of the first beast

Rev 11:7, 8. The beast that comes out from the bottomless pit is the same beast out of the sea in Rev 13:1 and Daniel 7:19-25. All i can say it is a corrupt political power much like the one who had Jesus crucified.

This system being the Roman Empire did crumble in 1798 The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27 represents the Roman Empire as
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The ten kings are the kings from the ten nations which were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

I agree with somethings you say, but can't shake off Dan.2:28
What shall be in the latter days.
Thus, nothing to do with the 1700's. Imho
Might be symbolic to what you say.

Dan.2:43
Whereas thou sawest iron mixed with clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men,
I believe it means leaders, that Satan brings with him, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
The fallen angels.

 

[dianegcook]

I only wish I could put the full article I wrote on this, but it's very long, plus some parts come against the ToS. I love studying with you

Same here!
Thanks, I have learnt somethings from you.
God bless.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree with somethings you say, but can't shake off Dan.2:28
What shall be in the latter days.
Thus, nothing to do with the 1700's. Imho
Might be symbolic to what you say.

Dan.2:43
Whereas thou sawest iron mixed with clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men,
I believe it means leaders, that Satan brings with him, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
The fallen angels.

Daniel 2:1-13 Nebuchadnezzar conceals his dream. Vs. 14-23 God reveals the dream to Daniel. Vs.24-45 Daniel interprets the dream to Nebuchadnezzar.

The dream was about three other kingdoms that would rise up after the fall of the Babylonian kingdom. The three kingdoms/Empires were Medo - Persian, Grecian and the last being referred to as iron was the Roman Empire which was more diverse than all the others. Daniel mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom in the latter days that will never be destroyed.

Timeline
Babylon Empire 536BC - 330BC
Medo - Persian Empire 536BC - 330BC
Grecian Empire 334BC-331BC
The Roman Empire 753BC - 27BC

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. Within time the Roman Empire was losing control by its leaders because of all the invasions that came against them. They ended up being scattered within ten nations. These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa.
The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

I hope this helps you to understand the time line from 27BC to 1798. There is so much to this that I am still trying to piece it all together. I just learned not to long ago there was a Western and Eastern Roman Empire.............mind blown!!! So much to try and wrap my brain around in the history.

 

[dianegcook]

Daniel 2:1-13 Nebuchadnezzar conceals his dream. Vs. 14-23 God reveals the dream to Daniel. Vs.24-45 Daniel interprets the dream to Nebuchadnezzar.

The dream was about three other kingdoms that would rise up after the fall of the Babylonian kingdom. The three kingdoms/Empires were Medo - Persian, Grecian and the last being referred to as iron was the Roman Empire which was more diverse than all the others. Daniel mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom in the latter days that will never be destroyed.

Timeline
Babylon Empire 536BC - 330BC
Medo - Persian Empire 536BC - 330BC
Grecian Empire 334BC-331BC
The Roman Empire 753BC - 27BC

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. Within time the Roman Empire was losing control by its leaders because of all the invasions that came against them. They ended up being scattered within ten nations. These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa.
The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

I hope this helps you to understand the time line from 27BC to 1798. There is so much to this that I am still trying to piece it all together. I just learned not to long ago there was a Western and Eastern Roman Empire.............mind blown!!! So much to try and wrap my brain around in the history.

Thanks for all your work, it did help!
It has been awhile since I have studied Daniel, need to again.
I have some notes, I have written in there, I write all in my Bible, some of it looks like chicken scratch, takes awhile to figure out what I had written. Lol
I have been studying Ezek.
Chapter 38: about Gog, Magog, which I think is Russia.
Persia, (Iran) Ethiopia (Somalia), Libya, Gomer and others...
The Great hailstones, fire and brimstone.
Rev.8:7,11:19
In Rev.16:21
Every stone about the weight of a talent.
A talent of the king=158lb.
Wow!

 

[dianegcook]

Thanks for all your work, it did help!
It has been awhile since I have studied Daniel, need to again.
I have some notes, I have written in there, I write all in my Bible, some of it looks like chicken scratch, takes awhile to figure out what I had written. Lol
I have been studying Ezek.
Chapter 38: about Gog, Magog, which I think is Russia.
Persia, (Iran) Ethiopia (Somalia), Libya, Gomer and others...
The Great hailstones, fire and brimstone.
Rev.8:7,11:19
In Rev.16:21
Every stone about the weight of a talent.
A talent of the king=158lb.
Wow!

Which reminds me, since this thread is suppose to be about the rapture, lol, look into Ezek. Chapter 13.
speaks of false prophets...
now, this is the KJV, some versions have really messed it up.
verse 5
neither have they made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

Verse 10,
Because they have seduced my people, saying peace, and there is no peace, and one built up a wall, and lo, others daubed it, with untempered mortar. ( white washed it)
Verse 11
...it shall fall, O great hailstones, shall fall...

Listen to this, Ezek.13:20
Behold, I am against your pillows, (covering) wherewith ye there HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY.

 

[for_his_glory]

Which reminds me, since this thread is suppose to be about the rapture, lol, look into Ezek. Chapter 13.
speaks of false prophets...
now, this is the KJV, some versions have really messed it up.
verse 5
neither have they made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

Verse 10,
Because they have seduced my people, saying peace, and there is no peace, and one built up a wall, and lo, others daubed it, with untempered mortar. ( white washed it)
Verse 11
...it shall fall, O great hailstones, shall fall...

Listen to this, Ezek.13:20
Behold, I am against your pillows, (covering) wherewith ye there HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY.

Actually all you and I have been discussing comes against the false teachings of a pretrib rapture. I use to believe all those teachings as I was without truth back then, but now God has given me truth through the scriptures.

Since you brought up Ezekiel 13 there are three key verses that stand out to me. Vs. 1-3 that sets the whole scenario of a false prophet being of one who speaks out of their own heart (carnal understanding) as God calls them foolish prophets. Many call that a bandwagon (pretrib) teaching as it tickles the ears, but will cause many to fall away as there is no truth found in them as they believed a lie, 2 Thessalonians 2. Matthew 24:11 Jesus even warned us about the false prophets rising up as they will deceive many and that actually started back around 1830 when this pretrib lie started to be taught. Vs. 16 speaks about the false teaching of peace and safety that will come to Jerusalem, but there will never be peace, 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

Compare Vs. 11 with Ezekiel 38:22, 23 and Revelation 16:21 as the hailstones only fall on those who would rather believe a lie as they have no truth found in them. This is the same with vs. 20 that God sets His hands against anyone who are false prophets whether they be man or woman.

Vanity is empty ideas that lead many astray from truth as they go about saying "God said" although God never said anything to them. God will set His hand against those false prophets and they too will be judged and have their place in the lake of fire. There hedge is a surrounding of those in whom they follow that teach these false doctrines as they lead others to believe their lies causing a great falling away from truth.

 

[dianegcook]

Actually all you and I have been discussing comes against the false teachings of a pretrib rapture. I use to believe all those teachings as I was without truth back then, but now God has given me truth through the scriptures.

Since you brought up Ezekiel 13 there are three key verses that stand out to me. Vs. 1-3 that sets the whole scenario of a false prophet being of one who speaks out of their own heart (carnal understanding) as God calls them foolish prophets. Many call that a bandwagon (pretrib) teaching as it tickles the ears, but will cause many to fall away as there is no truth found in them as they believed a lie, 2 Thessalonians 2. Matthew 24:11 Jesus even warned us about the false prophets rising up as they will deceive many and that actually started back around 1830 when this pretrib lie started to be taught. Vs. 16 speaks about the false teaching of peace and safety that will come to Jerusalem, but there will never be peace, 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

Compare Vs. 11 with Ezekiel 38:22, 23 and Revelation 16:21 as the hailstones only fall on those who would rather believe a lie as they have no truth found in them. This is the same with vs. 20 that God sets His hands against anyone who are false prophets whether they be man or woman.

Vanity is empty ideas that lead many astray from truth as they go about saying "God said" although God never said anything to them. God will set His hand against those false prophets and they too will be judged and have their place in the lake of fire. There hedge is a surrounding of those in whom they follow that teach these false doctrines as they lead others to believe their lies causing a great falling away from truth.

I agree,

 

[Corn Pop]

I think someone got a bit freaked out and it seemed better to convince themself that Jesus will beam them up into the sky before some type of persecution or judgement would take place, so they made up the pre trib rapture.

 

[Nathan12]

At the last trump, after the sun turns dark and moon turns to blood, the angels will gather together his elect from the four corners of the earth.

1. "The last trump" (also called "the trump of God") is the last trumpet call for those who are in Christ. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the seven trumpets of the 7th seal, all of which herald judgments upon the unbelieving and the ungodly.

2. Also the trumpet which sends the angels to gather "the elect" is not the same of the last trump for the Church. Those "elect" are the believing Jewish remnant gathered after the Second Coming of Christ.

3. When you study the Rapture, it is Christ Himself (the divine Bridegroom) who comes to gather the saints (the Bride) unto Himself. He does not send angels as proxies. And these saints are present with Him when He sends out the angels for the elect.

 

[Nathan12]

I think someone got a bit freaked out and it seemed better to convince themself that Jesus will beam them up into the sky before some type of persecution or judgement would take place, so they made up the pre trib rapture.

A lot of people have this misapprehension. But according to Scripture:

1. The Rapture is shown to be imminent, not related to the Tribulation (which is future).
2. The Tribulation is a time of God's wrath, and is represented by the first six trumpet judgments of the 7th seal. The Great Tribulation corresponds to the 7th trumpet judgments (the seven vials of wrath)
3. For Christians, Paul says that God has not appointed us to wrath but has delivered us from wrath to come.

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1 Thess 1:10)
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9),

 

[Corn Pop]

A lot of people have this misapprehension. But according to Scripture:

1. The Rapture is shown to be imminent, not related to the Tribulation (which is future).
2. The Tribulation is a time of God's wrath, and is represented by the first six trumpet judgments of the 7th seal. The Great Tribulation corresponds to the 7th trumpet judgments (the seven vials of wrath)
3. For Christians, Paul says that God has not appointed us to wrath but has delivered us from wrath to come.

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1 Thess 1:10)
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9),

Believers are not the people who are having a cry, it's the world that is having a cry and going through tribulation and wrath. I don't know any true believers in Christ who are flipping as the world goes insane. The world is stressing. People stress when God said he gives rest.

Unless the world seek the truth its only destroying itself. That's tribulation. Everyone is flipping out and stressing over stupid things, the world is gone have a seizure or heart attack or something soon. I know I'm not. I'm not putting myself through hell.

 

[for_his_glory]

A lot of people have this misapprehension. But according to Scripture:

1. The Rapture is shown to be imminent, not related to the Tribulation (which is future).
2. The Tribulation is a time of God's wrath, and is represented by the first six trumpet judgments of the 7th seal. The Great Tribulation corresponds to the 7th trumpet judgments (the seven vials of wrath)
3. For Christians, Paul says that God has not appointed us to wrath but has delivered us from wrath to come.

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1 Thess 1:10)
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9),

We wait for Christ to return on the last day, John 5:28, 29; 6:40, which is our day of redemption to all who are God's own. Both alive at Christ coming and those who sleep in their graves, Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1-4; Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. We who are Christ own are kept from the wrath falling on us as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption

Romans 5: 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The day of our redemption happens on the last day when Christ returns with His army of angels from heaven and destroys the beast and the false prophet and slaying all those who took its mark, Rev 19:11-21. It's at this time after the seventh trumpet has sounded that for 3 1/2 years the beast and false prophet will cause many to bow down and worship the beast and take its mark. Those (Christians) will be given a choice to denounce Christ and take this mark or be beheaded.

There is no quite secret pretrib rapture found anywhere in scripture.