Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[gr8grace3]

Here are the words HIS SERVANTS will here who did not continue in the confidence but shrunk back and whose deeds were unholy.

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:41-46

That is said to the goats, the ones on His Left hand. unbelievers.

32“All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. NASB Matt 25:32-33

Different in species is curious. The new creation in Christ comes to mind.

 

[FreeGrace]

I never said that we earn salvation by praying, meditating in the bible, fellowship but I said they are part and parcel of your salvation.

What, exactly, does that mean? How is it "part and parcel"? Is it necessary for salvation? If so, please provide the verses that say so.

These things are what believers SHOULD be doing.

The only thing I and you differ is that you say that these are exclusive of salvation but I say they are very much inclusive of salvation. Salvation doesn't end by just believing in Christ but by knowing Him and walking in Him until the end of your time.

I never said anything about the "end of salvation". Actually, the moment one believes in Christ is just the beginning of a permanent relationship with God through Jesus Christ. All the things you note are necessary for spiritual growth. They are not necessary for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

But if I say the Bible says we have to continue to have that faith to be saved I am preaching a damnable works gospel.

I would say you're preaching error. No one has shown any unambiguous verses that support your claim.

Why is no one explaining how when you first have faith it's not a damnable work of self effort, but to say you have to continue to have that same faith it is a damnable work of self effort?

I didn't ever say that. It's error. But here's the fact; you are, in fact, counting on your continued faith to save you. And you still haven't shown any verse that says what you claim.

OSAS closes it's eyes to the fact that the unmerciful servant was forgiven, and then lost that forgiveness.

You really think that was about salvation?? More wrong assumptions.

And then it conveniently redefine terms in passages in the Bible so those passages no longer mean what they plainly say, and then it says there are no plain passages that say you can lose salvation. That's just plain dishonest.

The problem is on your side. There are no verses that plainly say that one must continue to believe in order to stay or remain saved. Eternal life is just that; eternal. And God gives that life the moment one believes. And there are no verses that warn of loss of salvation.

And you think non-OSAS is saying anything different?

I've told you what the Bible says, and doesn't say.

What you haven't explained is how having to have faith to be justified is the true gospel of grace, but having to continue to have faith is somehow a damnable works gospel.

Again, I've never said anything about this so-called "damnable works gospel". Maybe you're thinking of someone else.

I think your view is in error. Salvation is eternal and is given the moment one believes. How come you have not answered my question about Rom 8:38 and how "things future" cannot include one's loss of faith, as seen in the second soil?

I know, I know, I know. We all know this. What you have to explain is how having to have faith to be justified is not a works gospel, but having to continue to have that same faith is.

The simple truth is that the Bible does not warn of loss of salvation. Any where.

OSAS says that to say you have to have faith to the very end in order to be saved at the Judgement, not condemned, is to say that salvation is by works.

The Bible indicates that one receives eternal life, a gift, when one believes. And there are no verses about eternal life dying or returned, etc.

But if you want to go on record that I've misunderstood the argument and that you agree with me that one DOES have to have faith to the very end to be saved at the Judgment then do that.

Nope. Rom 8:38 covers loss of faith. Nothing will separate the one who has believed from the love of Christ.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
I expect that Gregg will have a good answer, but my answer is that man has no part in his salvation. All he can do is receive the free gift of eternal life. That is not having a part. It's receiving a gift.

Gifts, by definition, cannot be earned or deserved.

If man has any part in his salvation, that indicates that salvation is earned or deserved, in part. Nonsense.

So you believe in Universal Salvation?

Where in the world did that weird question come from??? I totally reject US. Only those who have been regenerated will go to heaven. I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[FreeGrace]

Then you are teaching a doctrine that says unbelievers will have the same salvation as those who believe.

There is nothing in the Bible that calls a believer who only believes for while an "unbeliever". That's your error.

One who has believed and loses faith is still a regenerated child of God, and because even "things future" cannot separate us from the love of Christ. But, apparently, you don't really believe the promise of Rom 8:38.

When you stop believing then you are an unbeliever!
JLB

No. The believer becomes an apostate. One who no longer believes what he used to believe. But the fact is that he is still a regenerated child of God. That cannot be reversed nor is it taught in Scripture.

Why is that not being understood?

 

[FreeGrace]

It's a good thing God does choose who will be saved; that He starts and completes a good work in those he saves. Otherwise no one would be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:21

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

That's who He is pleased to save.

 

[Deborah13]

Whats missed here is common Grace, all men can come to God because of what Christ did. Christ also died for the sins of the unbeliever. We do not go to hell because of our sins, we go because we have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

He died for ALL men, the temple curtain is torn and ALL men may approach. The Cross works for ALL men, He did not just die for the people who will be saved.

We are all still totally depraved and would not come to God on our own, But He did something about that for ALL men......the cross.

YLT
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,

The word of reconciliation = the Gospel of the cross and resurrection, the Good News.

2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'

 

[Edward]

This might have been posted already, I'm not sure...

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway./

Castaway
G96
ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate./ (Strongs)

Hmmm

 

[DRS81]

This might have been posted already, I'm not sure...

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway./

Castaway
G96
ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate./ (Strongs)

Hmmm

This is talking about being rejected by men, not God.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-27.htm
I myself should be a castaway, or rejected, or disapproved of; that is, by men: the apostle's concern is, lest he should do anything that might bring a reproach on the Gospel; lest some corruption of his nature or other should break out, and thereby his ministry be justly blamed, and be brought under contempt; and so he be rejected and disapproved of by men, and become useless as a preacher: not that he feared he should become a reprobate, as the word is opposed to an elect person; or that he should be a castaway eternally, or be everlastingly damned; for he knew in whom he had believed, and was persuaded of his interest in the love of God, and that he was a chosen vessel of salvation, that could not be eternally lost: though supposing that this is his sense, and these his fears and concern, it follows not as neither that he was, so neither that he could be a lost and damned person: the fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness.

Have you ever heard of the five crowns at the Bema seat of Christ. That's what believers lose, not their salvation...1 Cor 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

 

[Gregg]

I expect that Gregg will have a good answer, but my answer is that man has no part in his salvation. All he can do is receive the free gift of eternal life. That is not having a part. It's receiving a gift.

Gifts, by definition, cannot be earned or deserved.

If man has any part in his salvation, that indicates that salvation is earned or deserved, in part. Nonsense.

Yes, that is my answer as well.

 

[Edward]

This is talking about being rejected by men, not God.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-27.htm
I myself should be a castaway, or rejected, or disapproved of; that is, by men: the apostle's concern is, lest he should do anything that might bring a reproach on the Gospel; lest some corruption of his nature or other should break out, and thereby his ministry be justly blamed, and be brought under contempt; and so he be rejected and disapproved of by men, and become useless as a preacher: not that he feared he should become a reprobate, as the word is opposed to an elect person; or that he should be a castaway eternally, or be everlastingly damned; for he knew in whom he had believed, and was persuaded of his interest in the love of God, and that he was a chosen vessel of salvation, that could not be eternally lost: though supposing that this is his sense, and these his fears and concern, it follows not as neither that he was, so neither that he could be a lost and damned person: the fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness.

Have you ever heard of the five crowns at the Bema seat of Christ. That's what believers lose, not their salvation...1 Cor 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

Uh huh. ok.

 

[DRS81]

Uh huh. ok.

What do you not understand.

 

[Edward]

I understand it fine, but do not agree with you

 

[Gregg]

Some believers will not be presented as holy,blameless and above reproach. Some will be in shame.

1 John 2:28 (NASB95)
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (NASB95)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Yes, and for us who are in Christ [having eternal salvation] yet with works not built upon Him:
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor 3:15 KJV).

 

[Danus]

Whats missed here is common Grace, all men can come to God because of what Christ did. Christ also died for the sins of the unbeliever. We do not go to hell because of our sins, we go because we have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

He died for ALL men, the temple curtain is torn and ALL men may approach. The Cross works for ALL men, He did not just die for the people who will be saved.

We are all still totally depraved and would not come to God on our own, But He did something about that for ALL men......the cross.

Well, there is common grace and special, or saving grace. Common grace does not save. common grace is the grace God gives every man, it's universal. it is part of His long suffering the sins of man kind so that some may repent, but again, NOT all man repents. Not all are saved. So to say Christ dies for all men, yet we know not all men are saved, dilutes the special grace God gives the saved. So, we'll just have to disagree there, and offer each other some liberty, because never the less, we agree that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works, and that is essential.

 

[DRS81]

I understand it fine, but do not agree with you

What do you disagree with.

 

[Edward]

What do you disagree with.

He wasn't talking about men rejecting him.

 

[DRS81]

He wasn't talking about men rejecting him.

Well prove it. I've already shown you why it is.

 

[Edward]

Well prove it. I've already shown you why it is.

 

[DRS81]

Edward 1 Cor 9:24-27 is about The Need for Self-Discipline. It has nothing to do with losing salvation, and everything to do with losing rewards in heaven. - 1 Cor 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Crowns that last forever are called incorruptible crowns. We receive these at the Bema seat of Christ at the first resurrection along with our incorruptible bodies.

1 Cor 15:53-54 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

1 - crown 1 - crown of righteousness— loved the lord's appearing - 2 Tim 4:8
2 - crown 2 - incorruptible crown— disciplined bodies / self-control - 1 Cor 9:25-27
3 - crown 3 - crown of life— endured patiently thru trials - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
4 - crown 4 - crown of glory— godly leaders who were examples to flock - 1 Pet 5:2-4
5 - crown 5 - crown of rejoicing— soul winners crown - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3