Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[DRS81]

JLB - Jethro Bodine

This says when you believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. It's not saying when you believed, fell away, believed again, fell away, believed again and then you were sealed.
No. Believing is a one time occurrence.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Work? What do you mean by work? Is praying, meditating the bible, fellowship work? That's what grace preachers preach, the finished work. You don't have to do anything but simply sit. Was Christ died on the cross just that we might just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and think that we are saved and live a life every common man lives, work, eat be merry, go to a movie, do some business and never give time for God but just earn, earn and earn and one final day you are in heaven because it's finished work by Christ Jesus????

Work, as in doing religious works under the law when in reality you are not under grace yet.

 

[FreeGrace]

Work? What do you mean by work? Is praying, meditating the bible, fellowship work? That's what grace preachers preach, the finished work. You don't have to do anything but simply sit. Was Christ died on the cross just that we might just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and think that we are saved and live a life every common man lives, work, eat be merry, go to a movie, do some business and never give time for God but just earn, earn and earn and one final day you are in heaven because it's finished work by Christ Jesus????

Seems you have no understanding of God's grace. It means we can't earn nor do we deserve salvation.

Believing the promise of God does not earn us anything, but God, in grace, does save us.

Your question shows that you believe that you must earn your salvation. Why is that?

 

[Danus]

Work? What do you mean by work? Is praying, meditating the bible, fellowship work? That's what grace preachers preach, the finished work. You don't have to do anything but simply sit. Was Christ died on the cross just that we might just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and think that we are saved and live a life every common man lives, work, eat be merry, go to a movie, do some business and never give time for God but just earn, earn and earn and one final day you are in heaven because it's finished work by Christ Jesus????

The effort you're speaking of is the effort to live the Christian life, not to be saved.

Salvation (equals) the Christian life. We are saved in part to live the Christian life. All the things you are alluding to, prayer, meditating on Gods word etc. We don't do those things to be saved, we do those things because we ARE saved.

Gods not adding up our score at the end to see if we pass or fail. You are start out failing and you end failing. Christ not only died for our sins, He also lived the life we can not live, and when we understand that we not only honor Him by emulating Him, even though we still don't measure up, but we can also say with confidence that we are saved because of Him.

 

[gr8grace3]

Work? What do you mean by work? Is praying, meditating the bible, fellowship work? That's what grace preachers preach, the finished work. You don't have to do anything but simply sit. Was Christ died on the cross just that we might just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and think that we are saved and live a life every common man lives, work, eat be merry, go to a movie, do some business and never give time for God but just earn, earn and earn and one final day you are in heaven because it's finished work by Christ Jesus????

And I would like to see this grace preacher that you speak of. If He is teaching his congregation to simply sit after they are saved, he needs a good wake up call.

Personally I have never seen a doctrinal Grace church that teaches this.

A doctrinal Grace Church, teaches the believer the difference from Positional sanctification(in Christ) and progressive/ experiential sanctification(this life).

I would guess that their congregation knows more doctrine then the average,schooled,trained,degree holding pastor.

 

[jonahmano]

Work, as in doing religious works under the law when in reality you are not under grace yet.

So you mean that praying, meditating in the bible, and fellowship are religious works???

 

[jonahmano]

Seems you have no understanding of God's grace. It means we can't earn nor do we deserve salvation.

Believing the promise of God does not earn us anything, but God, in grace, does save us.

Your question shows that you believe that you must earn your salvation. Why is that?

I never said that we earn salvation by praying, meditating in the bible, fellowship but I said they are part and parcel of your salvation. The only thing I and you differ is that you say that these are exclusive of salvation but I say they are very much inclusive of salvation. Salvation doesn't end by just believing in Christ but by knowing Him and walking in Him until the end of your time.

 

[jonahmano]

The effort you're speaking of is the effort to live the Christian life, not to be saved.

Salvation (equals) the Christian life. We are saved in part to live the Christian life. All the things you are alluding to, prayer, meditating on Gods word etc. We don't do those things to be saved, we do those things because we ARE saved.

Gods not adding up our score at the end to see if we pass or fail. You are start out failing and you end failing. Christ not only died for our sins, He also lived the life we can not live, and when we understand that we not only honor Him by emulating Him, even though we still don't measure up, but we can also say with confidence that we are saved because of Him.

Yeah you are right when you said we do these things because we are saved, I even quoted this in one of my early posts but why do you exclude these from salvation. Why are they not inclusive? Salvation is all about knowing the true God, getting back to God and the death on the cross and the faith is the way which Jesus hath made so that we can be re-united to Him. If you say that praying, meditating bible and fellowship are exclusive of salvation then you are also logically stating that they are optional

 

[jonahmano]

And I would like to see this grace preacher that you speak of. If He is teaching his congregation to simply sit after they are saved, he needs a good wake up call.

Personally I have never seen a doctrinal Grace church that teaches this.

A doctrinal Grace Church, teaches the believer the difference from Positional sanctification(in Christ) and progressive/ experiential sanctification(this life).

I would guess that their congregation knows more doctrine then the average,schooled,trained,degree holding pastor.

Yeah Joseph Prince is a fine example and I have more pastors in my area who say that everything is finished and you just need to enjoy and do nothing.

 

[DRS81]

So you mean that praying, meditating in the bible, and fellowship are religious works???

It is if you think you're saved when you're not.
You are only saved by His Grace and through your faith,
not because you read the Bible or go to church every Sunday.
Faith is an action of the heart.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I never said it was. In fact, Paul was clear about it by contrasting faith and works. Believers ARE justified by faith (Rom 5:1).

But if I say the Bible says we have to continue to have that faith to be saved I am preaching a damnable works gospel. Why is no one explaining how when you first have faith it's not a damnable work of self effort, but to say you have to continue to have that same faith it is a damnable work of self effort?

Uh, OSAS isn't an entity that claims anything. OSAS is a statement of fact, from Scripture. Salvation cannot be lost, or there would be at least 1 verse that plainly says so. Yet, there isn't any verse that says so. All you non-OSASers have is assumption.

OSAS closes it's eyes to the fact that the unmerciful servant was forgiven, and then lost that forgiveness. And then it conveniently redefine terms in passages in the Bible so those passages no longer mean what they plainly say, and then it says there are no plain passages that say you can lose salvation. That's just plain dishonest.

No it doesn't. Believing what God promises in NO WAY earns anything. Don't you understand Paul's clear message in Rom 4:4,5?
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

And you think non-OSAS is saying anything different?

What you haven't explained is how having to have faith to be justified is the true gospel of grace, but having to continue to have faith is somehow a damnable works gospel. How did having to continue to have faith become one of the damnable works that can't justify that Paul talked about? I really need someone to explain that....using plain, unadulterated scripture, please.

Here, Paul has contrasted works, which create a debt owed, with faith, which doesn't. It is God who credits man's faith as righteousness. We didn't earn it. It is, btw, by grace (Eph 2:8).

I know, I know, I know. We all know this. What you have to explain is how having to have faith to be justified is not a works gospel, but having to continue to have that same faith is.

Of course I can't, because none of this is true. Who do you know who believes this?

OSAS says that to say you have to have faith to the very end in order to be saved at the Judgement, not condemned, is to say that salvation is by works. But if you want to go on record that I've misunderstood the argument and that you agree with me that one DOES have to have faith to the very end to be saved at the Judgment then do that.

But if you don't, I really need you, or someone, to explain this absurd logic to me--that the requirement to have faith in the beginning is not a damnable work, but the requirement to continue in that exact same faith is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yeah Joseph Prince is a fine example and I have more pastors in my area who say that everything is finished and you just need to enjoy and do nothing.

The unmerciful servant sat back, enjoyed, and did nothing with the free gift he received....and look what it got him. He lost what he had been freely given. He did not get to keep it despite his contempt for the free gift, but OSAS says we can treat the free gift with contempt and still get to keep it.

Can't wait to see what unholy, ungrateful Christ rejector is going to be my neighbor in the kingdom.

 

[jonahmano]

It is if you think you're saved when you're not.
You are only saved by His Grace and through your faith,
not because you read the Bible or go to church every Sunday.
Faith is an action of the heart.

FYKI I do these not to attain salvation but because God saved me and I know my God more and more only when I do these and not just believe and simply sit.

Why don't you put a clear opinion on this?

Prayer, meditating on His Word, Fellowship........... are these optional for a believer?

Reply me with 'Yes' or 'No'

 

[DRS81]

FYKI I do these not to attain salvation but because God saved me and I know my God more and more only when I do these and not just believe and simply sit.

Correct.

Prayer, meditating on His Word, Fellowship........... are these optional for a believer?

Reply me with 'Yes' or 'No'

Yes they are optional after salvation, but you will be miserable without them and you will not produce any fruit. And God will convict you.

 

[jonahmano]

The unmerciful servant sat back, enjoyed, and did nothing with the free gift he received....and look what it got him. He lost what he had been freely given. He did not get to keep it despite his contempt for the free gift, but OSAS says we can treat the free gift with contempt and still get to keep it.

Can't wait to see what unholy, ungrateful Christ rejector is going to be my neighbor in the kingdom.

Two main weapons of Satan

1. Discourage believers to Worship the living God and have fellowship with him (prayer, and Congregational Fellowship)

2. Discourage believers to Meditate on the Word of God

And to achieve this he is using new set of grace-preachers. I have heard grace-preachers openly saying that you don't need to pray or read the bible to get saved and also to discourage that he is saying that work of righteousness is only for getting rewards in heaven and they are not related to salvation. It's simply saying that even if you don't pray, worship or read the bible, you will be saved.

 

[jonahmano]

Correct.



Yes they are optional after salvation, but you will be miserable without them and you will not produce any fruit. And God will convict you.

How are they optional after salvation. According to you is salvation is just believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. And a person gets saved when he hears the gospel for the first time in his life and accepts Jesus Christ his Lord and Saviour, there won't be any afters because it happens just after you believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and how come the sentence "optional after salvation" comes? I can't see any after salvation. You mean that we can just avoid prayer, word, fellowship after accepting Lord Jesus as our Saviour and still get to heaven?


If they are optional then why will God convict me? Options are always options and there are no protocols in "options" because they can be avoidable.

 

[DRS81]

If they are optional then why will God convict me? Options are always options and there are no protocols in "options" because they can be avoidable.

They're optional because we have free will, but God convicts you because you are a child of God. Father's discipline their children, same goes for our Holy Father in heaven. For example, your father told you to be home by 11pm, but you came home at 1pm. Your free will brought you home at 1pm, but your Father is still going to discipline you because you broke his rules. If you sin willfully under grace you are breaking your Father's rules in heaven, so he convicts you. Remember now, the only perfect being was Jesus Christ. Conviction is what is suppose to happen. It is normal.

 

[jonahmano]

They're optional because we have free will, but God convicts you because you are a child of God. Father's discipline their children, same goes for our Holy Father in heaven. For example, your father told you to be home by 11pm, but you came home at 1pm. Your free will brought you home at 1pm, but your Father is still going to discipline you because you broke his rules. If you sin willfully under grace you are breaking your Father's rules in heaven, so he convicts you. Remember now, the only perfect being was Jesus Christ. Conviction is what is suppose to happen. It is normal.

It's like you saying that Ananias and Sapphira of Acts 5 were disciplined to physical death but they are saved eternally????

 

[gr8grace3]

But if I say the Bible says we have to continue to have that faith to be saved I am preaching a damnable works gospel. Why is no one explaining how when you first have faith it's not a damnable work of self effort, but to say you have to continue to have that same faith it is a damnable work of self effort?


OSAS closes it's eyes to the fact that the unmerciful servant was forgiven, and then lost that forgiveness. And then it conveniently redefine terms in passages in the Bible so those passages no longer mean what they plainly say, and then it says there are no plain passages that say you can lose salvation. That's just plain dishonest.



And you think non-OSAS is saying anything different?

What you haven't explained is how having to have faith to be justified is the true gospel of grace, but having to continue to have faith is somehow a damnable works gospel. How did having to continue to have faith become one of the damnable works that can't justify that Paul talked about? I really need someone to explain that....using plain, unadulterated scripture, please.



I know, I know, I know. We all know this. What you have to explain is how having to have faith to be justified is not a works gospel, but having to continue to have that same faith is.



OSAS says that to say you have to have faith to the very end in order to be saved at the Judgement, not condemned, is to say that salvation is by works. But if you want to go on record that I've misunderstood the argument and that you agree with me that one DOES have to have faith to the very end to be saved at the Judgment then do that.

But if you don't, I really need you, or someone, to explain this absurd logic to me--that the requirement to have faith in the beginning is not a damnable work, but the requirement to continue in that exact same faith is.

Jethro~~But if you don't, I really need you, or someone, to explain this absurd logic to me--that the requirement to have faith in the beginning is not a damnable work, but the requirement to continue in that exact same faith is.

Because it negates what the object of your faith already did for you. If you believe that your faith has to continue in order to be saved, you are hoping in YOUR faith rather than the OBJECT(Christ).

And plus, where is the Holy Spirit in your faith? Is it you or the Holy Spirit that makes your faith effectual for salvation?

The moment we believe, the Holy Spirit makes the weak faith from the spiritually dead creature effectual for salvation.

2 Cor 6:2 NASB~~for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION "--

It is a moment in time. Acts 16:31. Your denying the moment in time.

 

[DRS81]

It's like you saying that Ananias and Sapphira of Acts 5 were disciplined to physical death but they are saved eternally????

If Ananias was truly saved he would only suffer loss of rewards at the Bema seat. Do you know if Ananias was truly saved?

 

[Deborah13]

Yeah Joseph Prince is a fine example and I have more pastors in my area who say that everything is finished and you just need to enjoy and do nothing.

lol, Joseph Prince says no such thing.