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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Losing Salvation after getting saved?

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That is said to the goats, the ones on His Left hand. unbelievers.

32“All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. NASB Matt 25:32-33

Different in species is curious. The new creation in Christ comes to mind.


His servants?

These were His servants. Notice they call Him Lord.

Let's look at the context starting from verse 1.

"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Why would Jesus be concerned with the world watching for His Coming?


and again -


14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.

28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.


33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

The righteous ones recognize Him as Lord.

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'


These unrighteous servants of His also recognize Him as Lord and understand MINISTRY...


Those on His Left hand are His servants who were unprofitable, meaning they did not produce fruit. they claim to know Him as Lord, but in works they deny Him.


It don't find any reference to the world mentioned in Matthew 25.

Verse 30 clearly says unprofitable servant... And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness.



JLB
 
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

By this, love is perfected with us, that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:17-18)
 
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)NASB

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)NASB

Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory blameless with great joy…” “To the only wise God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 24-25)NASB


That is why we continue and are upheld by His marvelous grace... He will never leave us nor forsake us. He is faithful.

However He asks us to be faithful as well.

He asks us to be holy for I am holy.

He tells us to not be deceived... those who practice righteousness are righteous.

If we choose to turn away from Him, and wither and never produce and are unprofitable servants, then there is also scriptures to address these people as well.

Why do you completely ignore these scriptures?

'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest... And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory...

His servant, not the world!


JLB
 
His servants?

These were His servants. Notice they call Him Lord.

Let's look at the context starting from verse 1.

"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Why would Jesus be concerned with the world watching for His Coming?


and again -


14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.

28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.


33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

The righteous ones recognize Him as Lord.

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'


These unrighteous servants of His also recognize Him as Lord and understand MINISTRY...


Those on His Left hand are His servants who were unprofitable, meaning they did not produce fruit. they claim to know Him as Lord, but in works they deny Him.


It don't find any reference to the world mentioned in Matthew 25.

Verse 30 clearly says unprofitable servant... And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness.



JLB
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, (Romans 4:2-5)
 
That is why we continue and are upheld by His marvelous grace... He will never leave us nor forsake us. He is faithful.

However He asks us to be faithful as well.

He asks us to be holy for I am holy.

He tells us to not be deceived... those who practice righteousness are righteous.

If we choose to turn away from Him, and wither and never produce and are unprofitable servants, then there is also scriptures to address these people as well.

Why do you completely ignore these scriptures?

'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest... And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory...

His servant, not the world!


JLB
It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him(and we have), we shall also live with Him(and we will); If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us(our reign); If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself. (2 Timothy 2:11-13)
 
That's right. man does have a responsibility. Man is responsible for his SIN! But, It's called culpability.

Man has no responsibility FOR his salvation, because he can't save himself, but he is responsible in his salvation, not to be saved, but to live in his salvation, if in fact he is saved.
Do you think non-OSAS is saying something terribly different than this?

Non-OSAS says you have the responsibility to continue to believe in Christ, just as you had the responsibility to first believe in him. It's the exact same believing. Just a continuation of that believing. But I'm told that the responsibility to continue to believe is an evil work of my flesh....even though it's the exact same, unbroken, uninterrupted believing I did to get saved in the first place.


Did you devise a plan to save yourself?
My plan is to believe. Believing is manifested in obedience. To think that one can purposely be disobedient and think they're continuing in the belief that saves, they are deceived. This is James' point. If you think believing unto justification can mean not obeying God then you are embracing a faith that can not save you. And if anyone thinks he's talking about just kingdom reward, and not salvation, remember the context is justification.


NO! God did. Did you add something to wjhat Jesus Christ did for you? NO

Is this how you pray? "Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself;
"44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him..." (John 6:43 NASB)

What you have to explain is how this means I come automatically and I have no choice whether to listen and respond to the call, or not. John himself explains in 1 John 5:9-10 NASB how there are those who hear the testimony of the Holy Spirit, but don't respond, and who are actually calling the Holy Spirit a liar by not to believing.


I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves.
There are those who simply refuse the power of the Holy Spirit to believe and be saved. That doesn't mean man saves himself. It simply means they don't want righteousness and as a result lose out on the capacity to be empowered to trust in Christ and live in righteousness. They will be fruitless--that fruitlessness being the evidence of their rejection and denial of Christ. They will be burned, not saved. It doesn't matter if they believed before and were fruitful. What matters is they forfeited that which can, or did, make them fruitful for the Master and arrived at the Judgment without any fruit (no oil, no increase in talents...).


Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do.
No. I simply want to take full advantage of it. That is man's responsibility. Those who don't will show their rejection of that grace by the fact that they are fruitless. But OSAS says you don't have to be fruitful to be saved. It means nothing in regard to the grace you received. You will only lose reward. But the Bible says if you are fruitless you have rejected the grace of God's forgiveness somewhere along the line. That's a bad thing. You can't be saved without God's forgiveness. That's the only way to be saved. Fruitfulness is how we know if you are clinging to the only way a person can be saved--the forgiveness of their sins. You have to be found clinging to and trusting in that forgiveness on the Day of Wrath to be saved by that forgiveness.


There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am.
They forgot the grace they had received, and as a result trampled it underfoot treating it as an unholy thing. Their fruitlessness being the evidence of that. Peter says purposely being fruitful means remembering the forgiveness you have received. OSAS says I don't have to be fruitful in a remembering of the grace I have received. I'll be saved nonetheless. It says fruitless people will NOT be thrown into the furnace, even though the Bible plainly says they will.


It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not-that is the difference between me and them."
Some soil is such that it will support life seeded in/on it, and watered. Other soil will not. That is the difference. The Bible plainly teaches this.

The grace of God is the seed, and the watering, not the soil. The seed is spread everywhere in the world. The soil is the fundamental potential of the heart for the love, or hatred for righteousness in a person. You're essentially saying God purposely determines who will have soil 1,2,3, and 4 ahead of time by his own sovereign design. I say the potential of the soil realized in any one person when it gets planted and watered is based on the person themselves, not on what potential of soil God restricted them to. If he did determine soil types by design then that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for him to say he desires all men to be saved and come to the truth. IMPOSSIBLE.


Have you improved the grace God gives?
Surely you can see now this is not about improving on God's grace. It's simply being of a type of soil that God's grace will thrive in, and embrace, bringing that grace to fruition in all the fruit of the Spirit. Some soil is simply not going to do that. It will not support righteous life planted in it for the reasons given in the parable--love of other things, trials and tribulations, etc. If we don't purposely bother to nurture what God has planted in us we are showing what kind of soil we really are and if that soil will be burned in the end, or not (Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB).
 
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“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

By this, love is perfected with us, that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:17-18)


Brother that is very true.

John wrote to those who had overcome and been faithful.

Look at the context!

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world...

This was written to OVERCOMERS!

These had been tested and had overcome, many had died as martyrs, that's who John penned these words to!


Read about Polycarp, who was one of these and the testimony about his life, and those who were with him.

Overcomers! Study about overcomers.

Read some testimonies about modern day overcomers at the Voice of the Martyrs...

We haven't seen the persecution that is going on in China, Iran, Iraq, Somalia and a hundreds of other places where it will cost you and your family there lives to witness and share the Gospel.


It's coming HERE!

Are you ready?

How well will those who believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of death, and still be saved do on the Day of Judgement


JLB




 
Brother that is very true.

John wrote to those who had overcome and been faithful.

Look at the context!

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world...

This was written to OVERCOMERS!

These had been tested and had overcome, many had died as martyrs, that's who John penned these words to!


Read about Polycarp, who was one of these and the testimony about his life, and those who were with him.

Overcomers! Study about overcomers.

Read some testimonies about modern day overcomers at the Voice of the Martyrs...

We haven't seen the persecution that is going on in China, Iran, Iraq, Somalia and a hundreds of other places where it will cost you and your family there lives to witness and share the Gospel.


It's coming HERE!

Are you ready?

How well will those who believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of death, and still be saved do on the Day of Judgement


JLB
It is how well Jesus Christ will do with His Children not how well His children will do.

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never(no not ever) perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)
 
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)NASB

Correct. The ability to know that what you can't see or know about on your own is really true is a gift from God. Once a person is shown what is true through that gift they must now place their trust in what God has graciously shown them to be true, but which they have no capacity to know is true on their own. There is a difference between knowing something is true because God graciously shows it to be true, and then actually placing your trust in what is shown to be true. John explains how some people refuse that which the Holy Spirit testifies to them to be true.


Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)NASB

Amen. And then it's our responsibility to embrace, and nurture, and bring to fruition the good things he sends down. Things we have no capacity or ability to produce, or lay hold of on our own, but which we do have a responsibility to bring to fruition when God sends them.


Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory blameless with great joy…” “To the only wise God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 24-25)NASB
Amen. He is able. If I have a kind of soil that wants that and which will depend on his ability, I will purposely seek to depend on his ability to do in my soil that which I can not do myself.
 
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

By this, love is perfected with us, that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:17-18)


Belief is the first step to salvation but that doesn't end there. You need to know Him, you need to walk in his ways. When God made Adam and Eve he had one obligation that is to obey Him but they disobeyed God and went after the Serpent. When God brings His children to Himself he expects them to obey him and that happens on day to day basis and that is salvation and not just belief.

If you think that salvation has to end in the word "belief" then God wouldn't have allowed so much persecution to the early believers and apostles which is the result we got the new testament.
 
and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never(no not ever) perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)[/QUOTE]

Yes that's true but there is a condition we need to choose life. First we need to say goodbye to the world and to the activities of Satan. Saying a confession of belief and don't have any connection with the Lord is not salvation. Nowadays salvations has become such a easy thing, it's like fashion, Just say a confession word and get along with your own job, visit malls, watch movies, and earn and earn and earn and one fine day when you are reach 80s and when your flesh is weak and you have no work to do then get to God....
 
and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never(no not ever) perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)
If your faith is rooted deep enough in the life you have received, this is true. No one, no thing can cut you out of the root.

Faith is how you received eternal life. Faith is how you will continue in that eternal life up to the Day we actually enter into the everlasting kingdom (for now we have the promise of that). And the Bible says that the faith that secures that eternal life in the eternal kingdom is the faith that is obedient to God, not the faith that does not obey God. The faith that does not obey is the faith that does not secure the kingdom. That's not a works gospel. Works is the manifestation of faith. Works are the footprints of saving faith. No footprints, no saving faith. It doesn't matter if you once had those footprints.

Just as the unmerciful servant did not have the expected footprints of having his debt forgiven by the king and had that debt reinstated, so we, also, will have our unpayable debt reinstated if we don't have the expected footprints of one who has had an unpayable debt forgiven.
 
Brother that is very true.

John wrote to those who had overcome and been faithful.

Look at the context!

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world...

This was written to OVERCOMERS!

These had been tested and had overcome, many had died as martyrs, that's who John penned these words to!


Read about Polycarp, who was one of these and the testimony about his life, and those who were with him.

Overcomers! Study about overcomers.

Read some testimonies about modern day overcomers at the Voice of the Martyrs...

We haven't seen the persecution that is going on in China, Iran, Iraq, Somalia and a hundreds of other places where it will cost you and your family there lives to witness and share the Gospel.


It's coming HERE!

Are you ready?

How well will those who believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of death, and still be saved do on the Day of Judgement


JLB
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith. 1John 5:4 NASB
 
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith. 1John 5:4 NASB

Nice sugar-coating words but that has to be manifested in real life. Yes faith can move mountains but that has to manifested. Saying that I believe in Jesus Christ and I am saved and still lingering around worldly things is not justified.
 
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

By this, love is perfected with us, that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:17-18)
But OSAS says I do NOT have to be perfected in love to have confidence that I'll be saved on the Day of Judgment. My confidence comes from a one time confession of faith...whether I persist in that confession of faith, or not. Doesn't matter. I'm still saved.
 
and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never(no not ever) perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)

Yes that's true but there is a condition we need to choose life. First we need to say goodbye to the world and to the activities of Satan. Saying a confession of belief and don't have any connection with the Lord is not salvation. Nowadays salvations has become such a easy thing, it's like fashion, Just say a confession word and get along with your own job, visit malls, watch movies, and earn and earn and earn and one fine day when you are reach 80s and when your flesh is weak and you have no work to do then get to God....[/QUOTE]
The irony. Earn,earn and earn.
Acts 16:31~~They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

And another thing, you can still (and Are commanded to work and provide for your family) get along with your job, go to the mall,watch movies and earn a good living as a christian. You can even have a good beer and watch a football game and it can even be your favorite beer and favorite team!
 
What, exactly, does that mean? How is it "part and parcel"? Is it necessary for salvation? If so, please provide the verses that say so.

These things are what believers SHOULD be doing.


I never said anything about the "end of salvation". Actually, the moment one believes in Christ is just the beginning of a permanent relationship with God through Jesus Christ. All the things you note are necessary for spiritual growth. They are not necessary for salvation.


How can you say the things mentioned are not necessary of salvation? If you say that then you are saying that those things have nothing to do with salvation. Let me ask you one thing, if a person doesn't have to do these things after they get saved then what else they can do????
 
Yes that's true but there is a condition we need to choose life. First we need to say goodbye to the world and to the activities of Satan. Saying a confession of belief and don't have any connection with the Lord is not salvation. Nowadays salvations has become such a easy thing, it's like fashion, Just say a confession word and get along with your own job, visit malls, watch movies, and earn and earn and earn and one fine day when you are reach 80s and when your flesh is weak and you have no work to do then get to God....
The irony. Earn,earn and earn.
Acts 16:31~~They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

And another thing, you can still (and Are commanded to work and provide for your family) get along with your job, go to the mall,watch movies and earn a good living as a christian. You can even have a good beer and watch a football game and it can even be your favorite beer and favorite team![/QUOTE]

Yeah while your own neighbour in Christ has to starve to death.................

Ephesians 4:28
Viewing the King James Version.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

And also why do I need prayer, bible reading and fellowship because they are options, I better choose to watch movies, go to malls and enjoy my life earning and earning and earning
 
It is how well Jesus Christ will do with His Children not how well His children will do.

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never(no not ever) perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)


No one will be able to snatch them out of His hand!

Absolutely true.

There is no person big enough and no devil strong enough to take you away from the Lord.

However, you still have a free will and can choose to turn away and be enticed to follow other gods, or through the deceitfulness of sin become hardened against god and renounce Him.

Hopefully you can see the difference.


Again look at the context!

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.


In the context of what Jesus is saying here, who are the sheep that Jesus is referring to that are His, that no one shall be able to snatch them out of His hand.

Jesus is referring to the foundation of His Church, which are His disciples that He Himself Discipled personally, the Apostles!

That is the context! Those are who He is referring to His Sheep.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12



JLB
 
The irony. Earn,earn and earn.
Acts 16:31~~They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

And another thing, you can still (and Are commanded to work and provide for your family) get along with your job, go to the mall,watch movies and earn a good living as a christian. You can even have a good beer and watch a football game and it can even be your favorite beer and favorite team!

Yeah while your own neighbour in Christ has to starve to death.................

Ephesians 4:28
Viewing the King James Version.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

And also why do I need prayer, bible reading and fellowship because they are options, I better choose to watch movies, go to malls and enjoy my life earning and earning and earning[/QUOTE]
You need prayer, bible reading and fellowship to grow as a SAVED person.

A Pastor teacher is very important also. God will give you one if you want the truth. A good teacher will really help us with being judgemental of other believers and our own self righteousness.
 
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