What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Losing Salvation after getting saved?

Jeremiah 6:30
30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them.

Lamentations 5:22
21 Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

22 But thou hast utterly rejected us; thou art very wroth against us./

Hosea 9:17
21 Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

22 But thou hast utterly rejected us; thou art very wroth against us./
 
DRS81 said:
Edward 1 Cor 9:24-27 is about The Need for Self-Discipline. It has nothing to do with losing salvation, and everything to do with losing rewards in heaven. - 1 Cor 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Crowns that last forever are called incorruptible crowns. We receive these at the Bema seat of Christ at the first resurrection along with our incorruptible bodies.

1 Cor 15:53-54 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

1 - crown 1 - crown of righteousness— loved the lord's appearing - 2 Tim 4:8
2 - crown 2 - incorruptible crown— disciplined bodies / self-control - 1 Cor 9:25-27
3 - crown 3 - crown of life— endured patiently thru trials - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
4 - crown 4 - crown of glory— godly leaders who were examples to flock - 1 Pet 5:2-4
5 - crown 5 - crown of rejoicing— soul winners crown - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3
Click to expand...

I've studied the crowns too brother, but there's no way that you can sway me into thinking differently than I do. Best we agree to disagree and bless each other and go on. :)

Bless you brother. :)
 
1 Corinthians 9:26-27 Therefore I run in this way, not as running aimlessly; I box in this way, not as beating the air. But I discipline my body and subjugate it, lest somehow after preaching to others, I myself should become disqualified.

At the conclusion of 1 Cor 9 Paul says he:
1. Runs to win a prize
2. Boxs to compete
3. Disciplines/subjugates (controls) his body
4. Preaches to others

Lot's of Paul doing things, no Christ.

Hmmm? I'm thinking it's not about Paul being 'castaway' from his salvation.

Only if you think Paul's saving himself by 1) Running, 2) Boxing , 3) Controlling/disciplining his body and 4) preaching can you come to that conclusion.

It would be unnecessary for Christ to have died were we able to somehow run, box, discipline or preach our way into Heaven.
 
Gregg said:
Yes, and for us who are in Christ [having eternal salvation] yet with works not built upon Him:
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor 3:15 KJV).
Click to expand...
Read the passage. What gets built on the foundation of Christ are believers in Christ, not your personal works of obedience.

Paul is saying the workers who build on the foundation of the household (the building) of Christ "must be careful how they build" (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB). If a worker builds using perishable materials (wood, hay, straw, stubble, etc.) those parts of the building of Christ will not pass through the coming Judgment, but will be burned up. But if a worker puts people into place on the foundation of Christ made of precious jewels, gold, silver, etc. they will survive the fire of the coming Judgment.

So he's saying it's important that workers on the building, like himself, build the temple of Christ in a way that will result in reward for the builder. If he, or anybody else, builds people up into a false gospel, that work--those people--will be shown for what it is because it will perish in the Judgment.

The point being, what reward is there for Paul to build the Corinthians up with a false gospel into a building on the foundation of Christ that is perishable and which will not survive the Judgment? None, of course. He will have nothing to show for his labor. His labor will have been in vain. His work--the Corinthians--will be burned up at the Judgment and he'll have no crown of believers placed into the building of Christ in the kingdom for him to glory in.

The passage is NOT about disobedient, but saved people having their works burned up and not stored up for them because those works, or lack of works, did not pass some test of authenticity, while they themselves remain saved and enter kingdom minus any praiseworthy obediences.

"1 Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 3:1 NASB)

"1 Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown..." (Philippians 4:1 NASB)

"19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20 For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 NASB)

Especially note this passage:

"15 ...so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain. " (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)


Our responsibility as believers is to prove ourselves to be a blameless and innocent children of God. We do that by being blameless and innocent. If you don't do that the person who led you to Christ will have no reward to show for his labor in placing you in the building of Christ because you will not survive the fire of the Judgment to come because you were not blameless and innocent, not "holding fast the word of life".

You have to hold fast to what you have in this life through living a blameless life (not sinless, but blameless, covered by the blood of Christ) in order to be saved on the Day of Judgment, and so the person who led you to Christ will have reward for his labor in the gospel. But OSAS says that these rewards for service are for doing obedient things with the right attitude and motivation, and that is what gets burned up at the Judgment for believers if they were not done for the right reason, while you remain saved. It's easy to see from the passage, and other supporting passages that is NOT what Paul is teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is not a OSAS passage.
 
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine said:
Read the passage. What gets built on the foundation of Christ are believers in Christ, not your personal works of obedience.

Paul is saying the workers who build on the foundation of the household (the building) of Christ "must be careful how they build" (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB). If a worker builds using perishable materials (wood, hay, straw, stubble, etc.) those parts of the building of Christ will not pass through the coming Judgment, but will be burned up. But if a worker puts people into place on the foundation of Christ made of precious jewels, gold, silver, etc. they will survive the fire of the coming Judgment.

So he's saying it's important that workers on the building, like himself, build the temple of Christ in a way that will result in reward for the builder. If he, or anybody else, builds people up into a false gospel, that work--those people--will be shown for what it is because it will perish in the Judgment.

The point being, what reward is there for Paul to build the Corinthians up with a false gospel into a building on the foundation of Christ that is perishable and which will not survive the Judgment? None, of course. He will have nothing to show for his labor. His labor will have been in vain. His work--the Corinthians--will be burned up at the Judgment and he'll have no crown of believers placed into the building of Christ in the kingdom for him to glory in.

The passage is NOT about disobedient, but saved people having their works burned up and not stored up for them because those works, or lack of works, did not pass some test of authenticity, while they themselves remain saved and enter kingdom minus any praiseworthy obediences.

"1 Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 3:1 NASB)

"1 Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown..." (Philippians 4:1 NASB)

"19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20 For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 NASB)

Especially note this passage:

"15 ...so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain. " (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)


Our responsibility as believers is to prove ourselves to be a blameless and innocent children of God. We do that by being blameless and innocent. If you don't do that the person who led you to Christ will have no reward to show for his labor in placing you in the building of Christ because you will not survive the fire of the Judgment to come because you were not blameless and innocent, not "holding fast the word of life".

You have to hold fast to what you have in this life through living a blameless life (not sinless, but blameless, covered by the blood of Christ) in order to be saved on the Day of Judgment, and so the person who led you to Christ will have reward for his labor in the gospel. But OSAS says that these rewards for service are for doing obedient things with the right attitude and motivation, and that is what gets burned up at the Judgment for believers if they were not done for the right reason, while you remain saved. It's easy to see from the passage, and other supporting passages that is NOT what Paul is teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is not a OSAS passage.
Click to expand...

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Yes, it is about the saved. No where is Paul speaking of the unsaved there.
 
Danus said:
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Yes, it is about the saved. No where is Paul speaking of the unsaved there.
Click to expand...
"22 only the gold and the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin and the lead, 23 everything that can stand the fire, you shall pass through the fire, and it shall be clean," (Numbers 31: NASB)

People who either heard a false gospel message, or, did not retain the true gospel they heard, holding fast to it by living it out, will be burned up at the Judgment and purged from the household and building of Christ at the Judgment because the fire will reveal them to be perishable and not made of that which can survive the Judgment.

What is burned up and purged from the building are indeed UNSAVED people. They are unsaved at the Judgment because they were either built up with a false gospel by the worker who placed them in the building, or they did not hold fast in the true gospel they heard. And in the end they were found to be made of perishable material, not imperishable material that is able to withstand the fires of Judgment.

Each man who labors in the construction of God's building--that is, his household, his people--should be careful how he builds so that those he places in the building will survive the Judgment, and the worker, assuming he is himself steadfast to the end, will have reward for his labor. Otherwise, his careless, or inferior work will be shown for what it is and his work--the people he preached to and taught--will not be a crown of reward for him in the kingdom. He himself will be saved (assuming he himself is saved and steadfast to the end), but he will not have the joy, and crown, and glory of his work in building the household of God in the kingdom.

Don't be deceived. 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is NOT teaching that believers can live unforgiven, disobedient, even Christ rejecting lives and still expect to be saved, just minus any rewards for works of the Spirit.
 
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:40-43 NASB)

Danus, don't be deceived about what happens to fruitless growth. Fruitless growth in the kingdom of God will be purged out of the kingdom by fire. To those who have ears to hear, our responsibility is to show ourselves to be fruitful plantings of God who are harvested for the Master, not cut down and thrown into the furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Tares look like wheat, but they never bear fruit like a wheat plant does. So, the fruit is how God will judge that which is true and which he will harvest for his own, and that which is false and which he does not harvest for himself, but burns up in the furnace (compare to Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB).

If you or I build people up into that which will be burned up, not harvested and brought into the store house, we--assuming we ourselves are steadfast and fruitful in the kingdom--will receive reward for our labor, otherwise we who have labored in the building will not have the reward, the crown of achievement (other believers) for us to glory in in the kingdom to come.

I simply don't see how OSAS is a gospel that builds people up into that which is harvested for God, and not burned up in the furnace. If you or I take false comfort in a gospel that says you do not have to be fruitful to avoid being burned up at the Judgment, and live according to that, you will indeed be that which is gathered up and tossed into the furnace and burned up at the Judgment.
 
Last edited:
FreeGrace said:
Unfortunately, none of this is germaine to our Lord's parable. It was all about the condition of the soils.
.
Click to expand...
Only if you think plants don't need (designed for in fact) light was my post germane. It's not "all about the condition of the soils". There's more to it than just the 'soils' (people) was my point. It contains Christ (The Light) and 'moisture' (The Holy Spirit) too. But, I certainly agree that it contains zero de-salvation. Some people (the anti-OSAS type) just go searching the Scriptures for the phrase "fall away" or "cast away", and when they find it they say; see you can loose your salvation.

But, Just exactly what did the thorn bushes in #3 'chock' the plants out of? (Water, soil or light?). Light. They were growing there first and grew up faster, blocking the sunlight to the young plants as weeds do.

WRT #2:
What scorched the plants in soil #2 that "received the word (the Light) with joy"? To much light (affliction from the Word) before it's roots could sustain that amount of photosynthesis by supplying the plant with enough water to bear fruit.

Also, WRT #3: 'chocked'
by the worries and riches and pleasures of life, and they do not bear fruit to maturity.​

1: pleasures of life (sins?)
2. riches/deceitfulness of wealth (sins?)
3. Worries/anxieties of the world (including worrying about loosing your salvation?)

Oh, and technically, soil #three did not produce fruit to maturity (grain/crop). It doesn't say it didn't produce any blooms/blossoms.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:40-43 NASB)

Danus, don't be deceived about what happens to fruitless growth. Fruitless growth in the kingdom of God will be purged out of the kingdom by fire. To those who have ears to hear, our responsibility is to show ourselves to be fruitful plantings of God who are harvested for the Master, not cut down and thrown into the furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Tares look like wheat, but they never bear fruit like a wheat plant does. So, the fruit is how God will judge that which is true and which he will harvest for his own, and that which is false and which he does not harvest for himself, but burns up in the furnace (compare to Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB).

If you or I build people up into that which will be burned up, not harvested and brought into the store house, we--assuming we ourselves are steadfast and fruitful in the kingdom--will receive reward for our labor, otherwise we who have labored in the building will not have the reward, the crown of achievement (other believers) for us to glory in in the kingdom to come.

I simply don't see how OSAS is a gospel that builds people up into that which is harvested for God, and not burned up in the furnace. If you or I take false comfort in a gospel that says you do not have to be fruitful to avoid being burned up at the Judgment, and live according to that, you will indeed be that which is gathered up and tossed into the furnace and burned up at the Judgment.
Click to expand...

Jethro, there you go again brother. You keep painting this picture of what you think I believe and I've not said any of that. Fruitless growth? where have I said that?

I have been very clear on what I believe. God saves who He chooses to save, man can not save himself. God changes those He saves, He starts a good work in them that HE finishes, not that man. BUT that man can "affect" his salvation. We can make decisions within our salvation, and the ONLY effort we make, is in our salvation, but not to be saved.

If you want to call that OSAS and paint it with your own colors, that's on you. That's not where I'm leading you in thought.

I would urge you to be more objective so that you can measure theological doctrines ,ore fairly and gain a better understanding of how individual theological understandings stack up to Gods word rather than to just your own theology.

You and I will agree that Gods word, the bible alone is the measuring rod here. If we are just comparing theology to theology, or doctrine to doctrine and leaving out Gods word, we're not getting any where.
 
I think it important to know that this is the fruit that will indicate to God and the angels that you are to be harvested and brought into the storehouse, not cut down and burned in the fire:

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control..." (Galatians 5:22-23 NASB)

"...applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance,godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:5-8 NASB)


"9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." (2 Peter 1:9-11 NASB)


The Bible is telling us, don't forget the forgiveness of sins you have received (think 'unmerciful servant', Matthew 18:23-35 NASB). 'Do' these things and you will live in surety and confidence that you have the Holy Spirit inside of you, bearing the fruit of righteousness, and that you will be spared on the Day of Burning Wrath, not destroyed. But OSAS says you do NOT have to 'do' these things to ensure your place in the kingdom of God. Anybody who says you can still be saved and not bear the fruit of the Spirit (in increasing measure, not all at once, see above) is deceived.
 
Last edited:
Danus said:
Jethro, there you go again brother. You keep painting this picture of what you think I believe and I've not said any of that. Fruitless growth? where have I said that?
Click to expand...
John 15.

Danus said:
I have been very clear on what I believe. God saves who He chooses to save, man can not save himself.
Click to expand...
That hardly means man has no responsibility in the matter. That is the logic I am directly challenging.

And the Bible is clear, God's invitation to salvation goes out to all the world, not just a select few. He desires that all men be saved and come to the truth. But to say he only purposely is going to save a few is completely contradictory to that. Utterly and completely contradictory. Worse, it makes him a liar.


Danus said:
God changes those He saves, He starts a good work in them that HE finishes, not that man. BUT that man can "affect" his salvation. We can make decisions within our salvation, and the ONLY effort we make, is in our salvation, but not to be saved.

If you want to call that OSAS and paint it with your own colors, that's on you. That's not where I'm leading you in thought.
Click to expand...
Well, this is a OSAS thread, you know. So, if I'm reading what you write in that vein perhaps you know why now. But I'm well aware of the connection between the church's misunderstanding about the end of the law, predistination, and OSAS, and how they have a common thread.....they all originate from the same misunderstanding of Paul's grace/works teaching--that any and all responsibility of man is included in the works that can not justify. Even--oddly enough--the responsibility to continue to believe in that which justified you in the first place.


Danus said:
I would urge you to be more objective so that you can measure theological doctrines ,ore fairly and gain a better understanding of how individual theological understandings stack up to Gods word rather than to just your own theology.

You and I will agree that Gods word, the bible alone is the measuring rod here. If we are just comparing theology to theology, or doctrine to doctrine and leaving out Gods word, we're not getting any where.
Click to expand...
Hmm....I think it's obvious that I use an ABUNDANCE of scripture in my defense. You are free to use whatever scripture you want for your defense.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I....OSAS says you do NOT have to 'do' these things to ensure your place in the kingdom of God. Anybody who says you can still be saved and not bear the fruit of the Spirit (in increasing measure, not all at once, see above) is deceived.
Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 3:11, 21, 23 (LEB) For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ... So then, let no one boast in people. ... For all things are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. ​
 
chessman said:
Only if you think plants don't need (designed for in fact) light was my post germane. It's not "all about the condition of the soils". There's more to it than just the 'soils' (people) was my point. It contains Christ (The Light) and 'moisture' (The Holy Spirit) too. But, I certainly agree that it contains zero de-salvation. Some people (the anti-OSAS type) just go searching the Scriptures for the phrase "fall away" or "cast away", and when they find it they say; see you can loose your salvation.

But, Just exactly what did the thorn bushes in #3 'chock' the plants out of? (Water, soil or light?). Light. They were growing there first and grew up faster, blocking the sunlight to the young plants as weeds do.

WRT #2:
What scorched the plants in soil #2 that "received the word (the Light) with joy"? To much light (affliction from the Word) before it's roots could sustain that amount of photosynthesis by supplying the plant with enough water to bear fruit.

Also, WRT #3: 'chocked'
by the worries and riches and pleasures of life, and they do not bear fruit to maturity.​

1: pleasures of life (sins?)
2. riches/deceitfulness of wealth (sins?)
3. Worries/anxieties of the world (including worrying about loosing your salvation?)

Oh, and technically, soil #three did not produce fruit to maturity (grain/crop). It doesn't say it didn't produce any blooms/blossoms.
Click to expand...
Surely you would have to admit that you have been all of the types of soil at one time or another. I remember being soil 1. I remember being soil 2. I remember being soil 3. I know what it is to be soil 4 (actually kind of going back and forth between 3 and 4, lol.) The point being, it is what you are on the Day of Judgment, and where you were expected to be in accordance with what God had tried to nurture in you that determines your fate, NOT WHAT YOU WERE WHEN YOU STARTED OUT.

If we do not stay steadfast in what we've heard, bringing what we've heard to fruition according to what is expected at any one moment in time in our growth, we will not be saved on the Day of Wrath.
 
chessman said:
1 Corinthians 3:11, 21, 23 (LEB) For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ... So then, let no one boast in people. ... For all things are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. ​
Click to expand...
Not sure what your point is, but what can be laid--laid correctly, or incorrectly--are the 'houses' on top of that foundation.

The worker in the building is to be careful what kind of 'houses' (other people) he builds on the foundation of Christ. Because anyone placed there made of wood, hay, or stubble will not survive the judgment, and the worker who put them there will have zero reward for his labor. He himself will be saved (assuming he himself is not wood, hay, or stubble), but his work will have been in vain and he will have nothing to show for his labor. He will have no crown of fellow believers in the kingdom to come.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
John 15.


That hardly means man has no responsibility in the matter. That is the logic I am directly challenging.
Click to expand...

That's right. man does have a responsibility. Man is responsible for his SIN! But, It's called culpability.

Man has no responsibility FOR his salvation, because he can't save himself, but he is responsible in his salvation, not to be saved, but to live in his salvation, if in fact he is saved.

Did you devise a plan to save yourself? NO! God did. Did you add something to wjhat Jesus Christ did for you? NO

Is this how you pray? "Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not-that is the difference between me and them."


Have you improved the grace God gives?
 
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)NASB

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)NASB

Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory blameless with great joy…” “To the only wise God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 24-25)NASB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top