Nicolaitans?

[for_his_glory]

Strange, I haven't read any commentaries that ask their readers to do that either...

You're basically rejecting the God given gift of the teachers in the body. God gave the Church TEACHERS my friend.

These teachers are not infallible, but to say that all of them corporately are not useful is just ridiculous.

Also how does the Holy Spirit determine truth from error for you? Does the Holy Spirit grant you an infallible understanding of the Scriptures magically, while everyone else is wrong? What gives you such a power that other believers do not have?

I never said I rejected all teachings as there are many that are word teachers that God has given us and not just socially acceptable traditionally taught teachers. Yes, the Holy Spirit is the only one who can give me pure understanding as I will not believe anyone unless the Holy Spirit confirms through the word that they are teaching truth or error. Many confess Jesus as their Savior and are Spiritual born-again, but yet teach in error because they just take it as face value of what they have been taught by others and continue to teach others in the same manner as they do not dig out truth for themselves. I'm sure you have heard the phrase being lead around like a bull with a ring in it's nose.The grace of God gives all of us his power and authority to be His servants as it is not us that speaks, but the Holy Spirit that speaks through us. I do believe that the Holy Spirit gives me an infallible understanding of scripture just as he gives others. Am I infallible, no, but the Holy Spirit that dwells in me is and if I need correction then the Holy Spirit will correct me.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[jasonc]

I do not see what I post as commentary, but actual scriptural teachings as commentaries are what others think the word says by rationalization of the carnal mind and not that of the Holy Spirit teaching them. I have written many Biblical classes that I teach from, but the difference between me and all those well known authors is that I never ask anyone to believe me for what I say, but to take the scriptures I give and search them out for themselves by comparing scripture with scripture, OT to NT, as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truths. I alone will stand before the Lord to give an account for those things I have taught others and am very cautious in what I teach. Agree with me or disagree with me, it truly doesn't matter, but dig the word out for yourself for all truths by allowing the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes and ears to hear and see what God has already spoken.


1John2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

you teach do you not.or do you just not ask people to listen to you? that is why I don't like the circular argument its truth because the Holy Spirit says its such. sure He can change us and expound upon us, but how is that we have so many views? whom is right?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I never said I rejected all teachings as there are many that are word teachers that God has given us and not just socially acceptable traditionally taught teachers.

So basically those obscure teachers that agree with you are the ones that God gave?

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the only one who can give me pure understanding as I will not believe anyone unless the Holy Spirit confirms through the word that they are teaching truth or error.

Is that like a mystical enlightenment?

Many confess Jesus as their Savior and are Spiritual born-again, but yet teach in error because they just take it as face value of what they have been taught by others and continue to teach others in the same manner as they do not dig out truth for themselves.

Oh.. but YOU are the one who is enlightened right?

The grace of God gives all of us his power and authority to be His servants as it is not us that speaks, but the Holy Spirit that speaks through us. I do believe that the Holy Spirit gives me an infallible understanding of scripture just as he gives others. Am I infallible, no, but the Holy Spirit that dwells in me is and if I need correction then the Holy Spirit will correct me.

Does the Holy Spirit give anyone else an infallible understanding? What happens when you both claim to receive infallible understandings of the Scriptures yet come to contrary interpretations?

This is where this Gnostic kind of understanding really turns into madness.

 

[jasonc]

agree to disagree. I know people who do that with me on end times. I make them see what im saying. they cant deny when I quote scripture. I say things like. are the disciples still alive? what is a saved jew?

 

[for_his_glory]

This is the definition of a commentary. "A spoken or written discussion in which people express opinions about someone or something." You are giving a commentary of the text, whether you like it or not.

Biblical Commentaries do their best to determine the meaning of the text via investigating the present culture, the original language and the surrounding context. You see we embrace this thing called Verbal Plenary Inspiration which means that Paul still writes as Paul, yet inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore it is important to know what Paul was like, and what was the occasion for his writings as he personally had purposes for them.

What you're suggesting sounds more like Gnosticism, like you are privy to some kind of "enlightenment" that is gained through mystical means while everyone else is working with the actual words and history to come up with false interpretations.

How come people who all have the Holy Spirit come to different interpretations than you?


Find me ONE Biblical Commentary that does the opposite of this. Just one please. You also do know that there is a Holy Spirit empowered ministry for the Church that is the Teachers?


You'll also give an account for what you say here, and don't look now but you're bearing false witness against these men.


So exegesis is totally useless in your world?

First I never give opinion, but only scripture so others can read it for themselves. The Holy Spirit by using my voice to teach others and give them understanding of scripture speaks in all his simplicity that even a child could understand as scripture is literal and Spiritual.

I too study the culture, original language and history of the various Prophets, Disciples, Kings and wars to understand what scripture is teaching me. You need history and prophecy of the OT to understand that of the NT in all the writings from Matthew to Revelations.

How come people who have the Holy Spirit come to different interpretations, it's by how they learn. Eveyone who has been Spiritually born-again has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but many do not understand that of what and who the Holy Spirit is. They are the ones who believe everything that is taught from the pulpit for after all they are our Pastors, Priest, Rabbis etc. etc., but yet to open their Bibles at home to study for themselves.

There are many good word teachers out there, but there are also many false prophets that we need to be aware of what they teach. It might sound pleasing to the ear, but yet comes against Gods word as text is being twisted and taken out of context.

Have I named names, no, then how am I giving false witness. I will give account before Jesus no matter where I speak or teach just as you and everyone else will stand alone on that day.

I do not interpret nor explain the word of God as I can speak nothing on my own understanding as that would be my opininion, but can only speak that of what the Holy Spirit speaks through me.

 

[for_his_glory]

So basically those obscure teachers that agree with you are the ones that God gave?


Is that like a mystical enlightenment?


Oh.. but YOU are the one who is enlightened right?


Does the Holy Spirit give anyone else an infallible understanding? What happens when you both claim to receive infallible understandings of the Scriptures yet come to contrary interpretations?

This is where this Gnostic kind of understanding really turns into madness.

I think I have answered your questions and now this is turning into foolishness and i will not grieve the Holy Spirit. I know who I am in the Lord and how I am being taught. I can not speak for others in how they are taught so I will end this discussion as i have said and explained all that is needed to answer your questions. God bless you

 

[for_his_glory]

you teach do you not.or do you just not ask people to listen to you? that is why I don't like the circular argument its truth because the Holy Spirit says its such. sure He can change us and expound upon us, but how is that we have so many views? whom is right?

Out of the forty years that I have been Spiritually born-again I have been teaching for the last sixteen years in some Churches and Prison Ministry, but mostly now through the internet as I no longer have a home Church since our old one had to close the doors. I would only hope that in those years of what I have taught would have taught others to open their Bibles and study for themselves that of the scriptures I taught from. I should never expect anyone to believe me for what I say, but come to me with any concerns of what I have taught so we could sit down together and go through the scriptures.

Whom is right and whom is wrong...............test the spirit that is speaking. If the words they speak do not line up with what scripture says then I would think either they are a false prophet or someone who has been taught a socially acceptable word.

 

[jasonc]

Out of the forty years that I have been Spiritually born-again I have been teaching for the last sixteen years in some Churches and Prison Ministry, but mostly now through the internet as I no longer have a home Church since our old one had to close the doors. I would only hope that in those years of what I have taught would have taught others to open their Bibles and study for themselves that of the scriptures I taught from. I should never expect anyone to believe me for what I say, but come to me with any concerns of what I have taught so we could sit down together and go through the scriptures.

Whom is right and whom is wrong...............test the spirit that is speaking. If the words they speak do not line up with what scripture says then I would think either they are a false prophet or someone who has been taught a socially acceptable word.

test the spirit was by the word? you do realize that many futurists say that while making poor grammar usage of the translations they use. ie all doesn't mean all. a Christian gentile isn't a jew but a jewish Christian is part of isreal but only in the trib while ignoring the plain words of no man knows the hour.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

First I never give opinion, but only scripture so others can read it for themselves.

Yes, you provide Scripture that you think confirms your opinion.

The Holy Spirit by using my voice to teach others and give them understanding of scripture speaks in all his simplicity that even a child could understand as scripture is literal and Spiritual.

Scripture often uses metaphors, how is it then "literal?" It's actually best to handle the passage by considering what genre of writing it is.

I too study the culture, original language and history of the various Prophets, Disciples, Kings and wars to understand what scripture is teaching me. You need history and prophecy of the OT to understand that of the NT in all the writings from Matthew to Revelations.

Why do you do this? Won't the Holy Spirit just grant you complete and infallible understanding?

How come people who have the Holy Spirit come to different interpretations, it's by how they learn. Eveyone who has been Spiritually born-again has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but many do not understand that of what and who the Holy Spirit is. They are the ones who believe everything that is taught from the pulpit for after all they are our Pastors, Priest, Rabbis etc. etc., but yet to open their Bibles at home to study for themselves.

I'm a believer who studies very in depth on my own and don't just take people's word for what the Bible teaches. Yet, you and I come to different interpretations as do many other people who also study on their own.

You're basically creating this elite class of believers who have been "enlightened," and then sheep who just follow the leader.

There are many good word teachers out there, but there are also many false prophets that we need to be aware of what they teach. It might sound pleasing to the ear, but yet comes against Gods word as text is being twisted and taken out of context.

Only those that agree with YOU are the good ones right?

Have I named names, no, then how am I giving false witness. I will give account before Jesus no matter where I speak or teach just as you and everyone else will stand alone on that day.

No, you generalized about an entire community and I asked you to provide the least amount of proof possible, to just name ONE SINGLE commentary where the writer tells them to simply take their word for it.

You basically can just claim whatever you want without any justification at all, then when called out to provide evidence you say, "I don't have to give an account to you."

You do realize how dishonest this tactic is right?

I do not interpret nor explain the word of God as I can speak nothing on my own understanding as that would be my opininion, but can only speak that of what the Holy Spirit speaks through me.

This would make YOU infallible. You can't speak your opinion about the Scriptures, therefore since what you're saying is supposedly by the Holy Spirit it therefore would have to be completely infallible.

Such a person as you is unteachable and beyond reason.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I think I have answered your questions and now this is turning into foolishness and i will not grieve the Holy Spirit. I know who I am in the Lord and how I am being taught. I can not speak for others in how they are taught so I will end this discussion as i have said and explained all that is needed to answer your questions. God bless you

You provided no evidence to back up your claims about Biblical commentaries, which is what I originally called you out on.

You also fail to see how your belief basically makes you the Pope, having infallible utterances concerning the meaning of Scripture.

A dangerous doctrine is what you have.

 

[for_his_glory]

Doulos lesou this is my reply to your last two post.


you said: Yes, you provide Scripture that you think confirms your opinion.

I provide scripture for others to confirm of what I teach to be truth or error.

you said: Scripture often uses metaphors, how is it then "literal?" It's actually best to handle the passage by considering what genre of writing it is.

Metaphors are mostly used in the parables that Jesus taught and it's up to us to understand them. Which by the way they are very clear to understand. Scripture is very literal in the actual accounts of those Prophets and Disciples in their witness and testimonies and very Spiritual in that of prophecies given.

you said: Why do you do this? Won't the Holy Spirit just grant you complete and infallible understanding?

The Holy Spirit does give me understanding when I study the history of a person such as Ezra, Ezekiel Moses, Abraham Etc. Etc. or country or war to get a background of the event or person.

you said: You're basically creating this elite class of believers who have been "enlightened," and then sheep who just follow the leader.

There is actually those two classes of people. I do not know how you study nor do you know how I study. Scripture may say something different to you then it does for me and that is why we come together to discuss our beliefs. We might not always agree, but we also have to stand on our belief unless someone can prove us wrong as I am always opened for correction when need be. Yes I said the Holy Spirit speaks through me as my mouth can not speak of things I have yet to learn.

you said: Only those that agree with YOU are the good ones right?

No, we need to agree with what God has already spoken in His word. Again this is why we need to be ready in and out of season to be able to answer others.

I have given one single commentary which is once again Wilmington's Guide to the Bible. All commentaries give scripture to back up what they speak, but not all scripture given does, but only sounds logical as one reads it with a carnal mind.

Why would i want to give my opinion of what I think scripture is saying as this would lead others to believe an opinion instead of what the word truly does say. I can not speak that of what I do not understand thus I am teachable always as we could never exhaust the word of God as we are ever learning, but at times not coming into understanding.

 

[jasonc]

literal? ok

there shall be some standing here that shall not see death till all these things come to pass

is that literal or a metaphor?

 

[ezrider]

literal? ok

there shall be some standing here that shall not see death till all these things come to pass

is that literal or a metaphor?

If you believe the testimony of Stephen in Acts 6-7, then that saying would have been literal.

 

[jasonc]

If you believe the testimony of Stephen in Acts 6-7, then that saying would have been literal.

of course. that means that the idea of futurism is shot to include most of what is taught today and being debated here.

btw Stephen saw him at the right hand of god not coming back.

 

[for_his_glory]

the Jesuits control the masons? hmm and there aren't jewish masons? my grandfather was one of those.

Sorry i missed this post of yours. Many become Masons, but have no clue what they are truly all about, but that needs to be another thread, but would probably be to controversial. If you are interested just do a study on Freemasonry as I don't feel lead to go into it in the forums.

 

[jasonc]

Sorry i missed this post of yours. Many become Masons, but have no clue what they are truly all about, but that needs to be another thread, but would probably be to controversial. If you are interested just do a study on Freemasonry as I don't feel lead to go into it in the forums.

no need, I know the gist of what they are. we have a master mason on this forum. I can ask him and I have asked one that I worked with what that is. masonry isn't limited to the rcc nor is controlled by it. separated entities.

while I don't think its wise for any Christian to be a part of that. America was founded by masons. the image on the us dollar what does that come from? the way d.c. is set up, the Washington monument etc. islam may have some masons in those republics but I highly doubt that they are in that position you speculate to do with what you say with isreal. eisigies not exigesis.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hierarchy = Categorization of a group of people according to ability or status. = Nicolatians

A royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people = The Kingdom of God


JLB

Hierarchy = Categorization of a group of people according to calling and giftedness = the Church


Do you have a historical source to show us the hierarchy you describe was part of the Nicolatians system of worship? I've never heard of it before.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you are giving yours. its influenced by schofiedism.

Mine is not commentary. And there's no question that everyone in the church today has somehow been influenced by Schoefield. That's why it's important that we read the Bible for ourselves and weigh what he and others say about it instead of blindly accepting it. We are to especially do that with those who assert themselves to be leaders of the church. We do that with everybody else, but if you claim you're a leader and have a plaque on the wall to show it, the church seems to just blindly accept whatever that person has to say.

I do not learn from any single source of information. I learn when I can talk to my brothers and sisters about the scriptures and weigh carefully what is said, the way Paul said we are to do. Some people have a lot of truth in what they say, some not as much, but through the collective experience I add to my learning as I add what I hear to what I read in the Bible. It's just that I have found, after reading the Bible for myself, that commentaries are among those who contribute the least to my spiritual inspiration. Generally speaking, they don't speak to me like the Bible does. Hearing God in the Bible is how I can recognize when I'm hearing the Spirit outside of the Bible, and when I'm not.

 

[TOG]

Hierarchy = Categorization of a group of people according to calling and giftedness = the Church


Do you have a historical source to show us the hierarchy you describe was part of the Nicolatians system of worship? I've never heard of it before.

Hierarchy isn't just about categorization. It's about authority - putting one person or group of people in authority over another. That's the problem many people, myself included, have with the church hierarchy. The way I see it, pastors, elders, deacons, bishops ans others in the church hierarchy are supposed to be our servants, not our masters.

The TOG​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The way I see it, pastors, elders, deacons, bishops ans others in the church hierarchy are supposed to be our servants, not our masters.

They are both.

Paul likens the relationship between church leader and the church as that of a parent to a child.

And like human parent/child relationships, some church leaders aren't very good at serving the needs of the child and use their parental authority to insulate themselves from the responsibility. That doesn't nullify the legitimacy of the parent/child relationship. It simply means it's being abused.