Do Denominational Differences Really Matter?

[Corn Pop]

Yes and no. I don't think this applies when talking about cults such as JWs and Mormons. However, the Christian church is indeed broad and I agree that within this we can apply the heresy label.

They maybe have gone a bit crazy on there wrong interpretations but they are no different from everyone else debating over scripture and saying what they think it means.

How many pastors are correct when teaching revelation to there church?. They go a bit over the top as well. And people on this site interpreting the bible.

If JW and Mormon believe in the birth,death and ressurection of Christ they are christians. Yet still decieved and led off path by false doctrine and 'adding to' scripture.

The trinity is just interpretation that come out the bible as well. Its credibility sure adds up, but its not direct scripture.

Oh and dont forget the rapture

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

They maybe have gone a bit crazy on there wrong interpretations but they are no different from everyone else debating over scripture and saying what they think it means.

How many pastors are correct when teaching revelation to there church?. They go a bit over the top as well. And people on this site interpreting the bible.

If JW and Mormon believe in the birth,death and ressurection of Christ they are christians. Yet still decieved and led off path by false doctrine and 'adding to' scripture.

The trinity is just interpretation that come out the bible as well. Its credibility sure adds up, but its not direct scripture.

Oh and dont forget the rapture

These two cults deny the deity of Jesus.
When you deny his deity, you strip him of his power.
What Jesus did on the cross is not good enough.
So they look for their salvation elsewhere.

This is one of the great weapons of the enemy.
Convince people that Jesus does not have the power of the our God almighty and he becomes powerless to save you.
People who teach this are cults, not Christians.

 

[smaller]

I might observe that whatever sights they/anyone has can be either gracious or condemning. There is plenty of room for both. I consider the condemnation portion as bait to show us our own evil hearts.

Here is a sight, from God Himself, about 'who' is accepted. The only question one should have in their own shortsightedness is, is this enough? In God's Eyes, it is.

Acts 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[Blake]

You have a very valid point I think. Now the J/Ws embrace an Arian Christology - Jesus is not God. In their eschatology there will be more saved than the group you mentioned, which if memorynserves numbers 144,000; however, there is some special status conferred on the 144,000; individual members of that group self identify as such. To date I have read there are more than 144,000 such self identifications!

Welcome to CF.net! So glad to have you here. I love seeing the Orthodox on these forums, you guys have a rich treasure trove of theology and I always enjoy reading your perspectives on things. Others on this forum don't share my enthusiasm, as I'm sure you might expect, so I apologize in advance on behalf of CF for confused members who equate Roman Catholics as the "Whore of Babylon" and the Orthodox as her strange Greek and Russian cousins, LOL. Know that you are welcome, despite any accusations or insults that come your way. I was telling another Orthodox poster here just about a month ago to consider it a podvig of sorts to endure these things, and shine your light regardless, because you never know who you might be helping. Okay, enough of that. Back on topic for me.

I don't think denominational differences make that much of a difference. Beneath the cross is a level playing ground. The Spirit blows where He will, and despite our aversion to that (whether directly or indirectly), no one denomination has a monopoly on Him.

 

[Free]

They maybe have gone a bit crazy on there wrong interpretations but they are no different from everyone else debating over scripture and saying what they think it means.

How many pastors are correct when teaching revelation to there church?. They go a bit over the top as well. And people on this site interpreting the bible.

If JW and Mormon believe in the birth,death and ressurection of Christ they are christians. Yet still decieved and led off path by false doctrine and 'adding to' scripture.

The trinity is just interpretation that come out the bible as well. Its credibility sure adds up, but its not direct scripture.

Oh and dont forget the rapture

There are doctrines one must believe in order to be a Christian, most important of which are the deity of Christ and his literal, physical death and resurrection. Jesus is central to the entirety of Scripture and central to salvation, so certainly it stands to reason that believing in who he is and what he has done is absolutely vital.

Christianity has historically taught that Jesus is God Incarnate, the God-man. JWs believe that he is a mere creature, the same as one of us. Mormons believe he is the literal offspring of the Father and his wife, who was also the offspring of his father and mother, etc. This is not merely going "a bit crazy" with some wrong interpretations, it is the wrong starting point altogether, which is why so much of their theology is way off.

There just is no way one can say that simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God is enough, or that as long as one believes in his death and resurrection that is enough. Who Jesus is (what the term "Son of God" implies), is central to everything and one must acknowledge that he is as Scripture reveals him to be.

 

[Sinthesis]

I personally believe that as long as the essentials of Christianity are adhered to, denominational differences about non essential doctrine simply allow Jesus to cast a wider net to catch more converts.

If I ultimately learn that God is more accepting than I originally thought, then it's not my place to complain. I'm not the Judge.

 

[Edward]

There are doctrines one must believe in order to be a Christian, most important of which are the deity of Christ and his literal, physical death and resurrection. Jesus is central to the entirety of Scripture and central to salvation, so certainly it stands to reason that believing in who he is and what he has done is absolutely vital.

Christianity has historically taught that Jesus is God Incarnate, the God-man. JWs believe that he is a mere creature, the same as one of us. Mormons believe he is the literal offspring of the Father and his wife, who was also the offspring of his father and mother, etc. This is not merely going "a bit crazy" with some wrong interpretations, it is the wrong starting point altogether, which is why so much of their theology is way off.

There just is no way one can say that simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God is enough, or that as long as one believes in his death and resurrection that is enough. Who Jesus is (what the term "Son of God" implies), is central to everything and one must acknowledge that he is as Scripture reveals him to be.

I agree...

One question... Is doing that really a 'doctrine'?

 

[smaller]

There are doctrines one must believe in order to be a Christian, most important of which are the deity of Christ and his literal, physical death and resurrection. Jesus is central to the entirety of Scripture and central to salvation, so certainly it stands to reason that believing in who he is and what he has done is absolutely vital.

God has spoken to "man" in diverse ways and manners. The "revealing" of Christ Himself came at certain time. Yet and nevertheless, the "Fullness" of Him remains a Great Mystery. The various boxes that are constructed are interesting, but don't you think that God has to reveal Himself? And that such constructs are just that, really unable of themselves to "reach out and touch" anyone.

In other words people of supposed substantial intellect may be able to define and understand "The Trinity" but that really doesn't mean or equate to them "knowing God in Christ."

The experience factor plays a much more critical role. The personal testimonies of "engagements" showing the "reality" of faith. These are not to be found in intellectual pursuits nor in intellectual bullying.

Christianity has historically taught that Jesus is God Incarnate, the God-man. JWs believe that he is a mere creature, the same as one of us. Mormons believe he is the literal offspring of the Father and his wife, who was also the offspring of his father and mother, etc. This is not merely going "a bit crazy" with some wrong interpretations, it is the wrong starting point altogether, which is why so much of their theology is way off.

The JW's and the Mormon's have "stories" that some/many "buy into." I suspect however that these too do contain some element of "faith." And on that basis I am reluctant to intellectually bully them either. Paul was satisfied and rejoiced "however" Christ was preached, even if done falsely (in pretence.) And I believe Paul took that posture knowing that Jesus Is Able.

Anyone who has dealt with faith knows that sooner or later most are led to question storylines personally, for validity. I personally don't think it takes 'much' faith to be saved. Mustard seed or smaller comes to mind, where even a mustard seed of faith contains more than any of us have ever witnessed.

There just is no way one can say that simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God is enough, or that as long as one believes in his death and resurrection that is enough. Who Jesus is (what the term "Son of God" implies), is central to everything and one must acknowledge that he is as Scripture reveals him to be.

I believe it is up to Jesus to reveal Himself to anyone. And that can be an interesting process, certainly not limited to human intellectual exaltation.

God Is Love. In that, He reveals Himself.

Let's face the fact that sacerdotal systems in ANY form is, uh, well, largely a construct of "man." And hasn't really done christianity or Christ in us, any great service, other than to intellectually DIVIDE believers.

At the end of the day, the end of the service, the end of our "intellectual pursuits", the end of our lives,

God in Christ will still be LOVE.

 

[smaller]

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[ezra]

I don't know much about SDA, but I don't think Mormon or JW are cults. I don't agree with them, but I have to hold out hope that God saves us even if we don't understand everything right. That by faith in Jesus, we are given Salvation. Because if that's not true, then there's no hope for any of us. Mormon's have extra books along with the bible. Those books I think are a sham, but I don't think they refuse their faith in Jesus or in God. Jehovah Witnesses studied the bible and developed many other theologies that aren't shared among other Christian groups, but I think their faith and trust in Jesus, and in God is still very real.

have you studied out the J.W OR MORMONS they are a work based salvation .the more works you do the higher up you go any thing out side of grace is a cult

 

[Kidron]

Acts 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

What you quoted is from Peter, and is taken from before he understood that you are not justified by good works., or as he states it...."worketh righteousness".
Today we know, thanks to Paul, that God only "accepts" us based on the Blood atonement, and executes for us Salvation when we hear the Gospel and BELIEVE it.
Romans 10.
Peter didnt know about the revelation of the grace of God, when he preached in Acts 2:38 or spoke in Acts 10:35.
This is why he, and (James) talk about "works" to be "accepted", when in point of fact this is not the basis of how God accepts or justifies or "saves" a person, or as Paul teaches...."We conclude that a person is justified by FAITH".

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What you quoted is from Peter, and is taken from before he understood that you are not justified by good works., or as he states it...."worketh righteousness".
Today we know, thanks to Paul, that God only "accepts" us based on the Blood atonement, and executes for us Salvation when we hear the Gospel and BELIEVE it.
Romans 10.
Peter didnt know about the revelation of the grace of God, when he preached in Acts 2:38 or spoke in Acts 10:35.
This is why he, and (James) talk about "works" to be "accepted", when in point of fact this is not the basis of how God accepts or justifies or "saves" a person, or as Paul teaches...."We conclude that a person is justified by FAITH".

Gee whiz, I didn't know the Bible was so messed up.
Thanks Kidron.

 

[reba]

I personally believe that as long as the essentials of Christianity are adhered to, denominational differences about non essential doctrine simply allow Jesus to cast a wider net to catch more converts.

If I ultimately learn that God is more accepting than I originally thought, then it's not my place to complain. I'm not the Judge.

Sheesh there is no like button here..

 

[Kidron]

Gee whiz, I didn't know the Bible was so messed up.
Thanks Kidron.

The bible is not messed up.
People are messed up who have not been taught how to "rightly divide" the bible.
This is not the Bible's fault.

 

[smaller]

What you quoted is from Peter, and is taken from before he understood that you are not justified by good works., or as he states it...."worketh righteousness".

Uh, no, those are Holy Spirit inspired Words of an Apostle.

God in Christ is not and can not be against doing good. And just as clearly such (below cited) are accepted with God, as stated in this "inspired" citing from Peter in Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Today we know, thanks to Paul, that God only "accepts" us based on the Blood atonement, and executes for us Salvation when we hear the Gospel and BELIEVE it.

I would deny your employment of "only" as this denies Peter's inspired statement as well as other statements of the Apostles. If we want to be simple about these matters,

God is for good actions, and against evil.

Romans 10.
Peter didnt know about the revelation of the grace of God, when he preached in Acts 2:38 or spoke in Acts 10:35.
This is why he, and (James) talk about "works" to be "accepted", when in point of fact this is not the basis of how God accepts or justifies or "saves" a person, or as Paul teaches...."We conclude that a person is justified by FAITH".

Neither "grace" or "faith" is against doing good either, and can't be.

Genesis 4:
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

 

[Kidron]

Uh, no, those are Holy Spirit inspired Words of an Apostle.

God in Christ is not and can not be against doing good. And just as clearly such (below cited) are accepted with God, as stated in this "inspired" citing from Peter in Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


I would deny your employment of "only" as this denies Peter's inspired statement as well as other statements of the Apostles. If we want to be simple about these matters,

God is for good actions, and against evil.

Neither "grace" or "faith" is against doing good either, and can't be.

Genesis 4:
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

Uh, no, those are Holy Spirit inspired Words of an Apostle.


No, thats an apostle who has just been shown that gentiles are going to be saved and not just JEWS.
He is kinda freaking out as he perceived the "truth" that not just JEWS were going to be in the family of God.

Smaller, try to keep in mind that not everything said by an apostle or not everything that one does is "holy Spirit" inspired.
For example, in Galatians , Paul is giving Peter a very harsh "verbal lesson" for being a coward and trying to hide his Faith from the Jews.
I could give you many more examples like this, but that one will suffice for now.


God in Christ is not and can not be against doing good. And just as clearly such (below cited) are accepted with God, as stated in this "inspired" citing from Peter in Acts 10:


God is absolutely desiring that we be "be holy as He is Holy", but, this is with the understanding that all this holy effort to be holy, cant save you, and if you dont do it, then this cant cause you to lose your salvation.
This is because Jesus SAVES you, and not your attempt to imitate Him with your lifestyle.



I would deny your employment of "only" as this denies Peter's inspired statement as well as other statements of the Apostles. If we want to be simple about these matters,


I didnt deny what he said, but rather i explained to you that at the time Peter said what he said, he had just learned that Gentiles could be and would be saved.
This is 10 years after the Cross that He has to be taught this.....and also, at this time, he also didnt have a clue that Grace though Faith was Salvation.
This revelation came by PAUL, and not by Peter, as Peter didnt even know that gentiles were to be saved.
You might say he was kinda out of the loop, BUT, after Paul showed up with the revelation that Jesus had personally given him as "the gift of Righteousness", then eventually all the Apostles were able to get the understanding that water didnt save and works didnt save, but rather JESUS SAVED once a person Believed the "Gospel".
This is how God set it up, but it took a while for all of the 11 to get dialed in.
Nearly 2 decades.
Paul was the first to get the info and start preaching the "Gospel".
Eventually, the "11" had the new plan, but they didnt have it in Acts 2:38, or in Acts 10, or in the epistle of "James".

 

[evenifigoalone]

have you studied out the J.W OR MORMONS they are a work based salvation .the more works you do the higher up you go any thing out side of grace is a cult

They do teach that, but from what I've gathered from having a Mormon friend they also believe that hell is hard to get into(?) and it sounds like they don't believe that unbelief will lead there. I could be wrong, though, I have not studied them much.

 

[smaller]

No, thats an apostle who has just been shown that gentiles are going to be saved and not just JEWS.

Doesn't eliminate what Peter said, which IS a scriptural, spiritual fact that doesn't apply just to "Jews."

"he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him"

He is kinda freaking out as he perceived the "truth" that not just JEWS were going to be in the family of God.

Your descriptive. Scripture has never been against "anyone" who does good.

Smaller, try to keep in mind that not everything said by an apostle or not everything that one does is "holy Spirit" inspired.

Especially so if it steps on pet doctrines, eh? Yes, this particular instance was Directly Inspired by The Spirit, and was even backed up by the appearance of an Angel of God to drive home the point.

For example, in Galatians , Paul is giving Peter a very harsh "verbal lesson" for being a coward and trying to hide his Faith from the Jews.
I could give you many more examples like this, but that one will suffice for now.

Again, no. The Spirit of God in Christ is very specifically against, and will always be against HYPOCRISY, which Jesus also "condemned" and for which Peter was berated for, as "condemned." So, yes, that encounter was also "inspired" by the Spirit, and not just a couple of random guy/Apostles arguing about "food laws."

God is absolutely desiring that we be "be holy as He is Holy", but, this is with the understanding that all this holy effort to be holy, cant save you, and if you dont do it, then this cant cause you to lose your salvation.

I expect Jesus to be considerably more GRACIOUS than many are able to see:

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Your insistence of faith that saves, but actually doesn't do any "good" I might not consider all that much of faith, as faith "works" through "LOVE."

I'll take the above statement as a statement of "fact" from God Himself.

I didnt deny what he said, but rather i explained to you that at the time Peter said what he said, he had just learned that Gentiles could be and would be saved.

I read it very specifically as "are accepted with him." Not "will be" if they cotton up to somebody else's doctrines. What was said is also entirely "in line" with what Jesus said as well, many many times.

This is 10 years after the Cross that He has to be taught this.....and also, at this time, he also didnt have a clue that Grace though Faith was Salvation. This revelation came by PAUL, and not by Peter, as Peter didnt even know that gentiles were to be saved.
You might say he was kinda out of the loop, BUT, after Paul showed up with the revelation that Jesus had personally given him as "the gift of Righteousness", then eventually all the Apostles were able to get the understanding that water didnt save and works didnt save, but rather JESUS SAVED once a person Believed the "Gospel".
This is how God set it up, but it took a while for all of the 11 to get dialed in.
Nearly 2 decades."

I don't have any doubt that this axiom has always applied people in every nation, though God specifically "dealt" with the people of Israel.

"in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Scriptures tell us that creation itself witnesses and has witnessed God to man, even by men's conscience.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 2:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

People have always had the "witness" of creation and the "witness" of conscience, of things pertaining to God.

Paul was the first to get the info and start preaching the "Gospel".
Eventually, the "11" had the new plan, but they didnt have it in Acts 2:38, or in Acts 10, or in the epistle of "James".

You seem to have a great deal of trouble harmonizing the Apostles, and instead, diminish their statements as if they are in conflict with each others. That is not a requirement of the Gospel. All these men of faith spoke and TAUGHT straight out of the O.T.

The GOSPEL was delivered to the GENTILES a long long way back. Isaiah 11 and 42 being a great examples. It just fell on a LOT of deaf ears, perhaps purposefully so.

 

[Free]

God has spoken to "man" in diverse ways and manners. The "revealing" of Christ Himself came at certain time. Yet and nevertheless, the "Fullness" of Him remains a Great Mystery. The various boxes that are constructed are interesting, but don't you think that God has to reveal Himself? And that such constructs are just that, really unable of themselves to "reach out and touch" anyone.

And yet we have that revelation of Christ given in Scripture. Either what Scriptures says about Jesus is true or it is not, and what the JWs and Mormons believe about Jesus is not what Scripture reveals.

In other words people of supposed substantial intellect may be able to define and understand "The Trinity" but that really doesn't mean or equate to them "knowing God in Christ."

Of course not, but one cannot know God in Christ if the Christ they believe in is not whom is revealed in Scripture.

The experience factor plays a much more critical role. The personal testimonies of "engagements" showing the "reality" of faith.

What do you mean by this?

The JW's and the Mormon's have "stories" that some/many "buy into." I suspect however that these too do contain some element of "faith." And on that basis I am reluctant to intellectually bully them either. Paul was satisfied and rejoiced "however" Christ was preached, even if done falsely (in pretence.) And I believe Paul took that posture knowing that Jesus Is Able.

This is not "intellectual bullying," this is about properly interpreting Scripture, and Scripture itself teaches us we are to judge doctrine and belief so as to avoid those things which are false. This obviously means there are certain things that are true that we are to believe.

Anyone who has dealt with faith knows that sooner or later most are led to question storylines personally, for validity. I personally don't think it takes 'much' faith to be saved. Mustard seed or smaller comes to mind, where even a mustard seed of faith contains more than any of us have ever witnessed.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I believe it is up to Jesus to reveal Himself to anyone. And that can be an interesting process, certainly not limited to human intellectual exaltation.

God Is Love. In that, He reveals Himself.

Again, all that we need to know has already been revealed in Scripture. You seem to be giving in to this false idea that experience trumps what the Bible says. This is one of the reasons why homosexuality is currently making such inroads into the church--people are interpreting Scripture through experience instead of letting Scripture speak.

 

[smaller]

And yet we have that revelation of Christ given in Scripture. Either what Scriptures says about Jesus is true or it is not, and what the JWs and Mormons believe about Jesus is not what Scripture reveals.

I agree. Though I do not pander to the imaginations of J. Smith regarding the Mormon's sights of things, that does not mean they are entirely devoid of ANY meanings. From a citizen standpoint and from the standpoint of 'doing good' I have few, if any issues with Mormons and have many in my area, though I do struggle to do business with them as they are a very closed sect. Similar to some of the SDA's in my area in the latter regards.

Of course not, but one cannot know God in Christ if the Christ they believe in is not whom is revealed in Scripture.

I would speculate that God in Christ reaches out and saves a LOT of people who didn't have a clue about the "official Trinity construct" Free. Understanding the specifics of that construct does NOT save. Jesus Himself does SAVE, and does so without that as a prerequisite.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that "most" if not "all" believers start out their "believing lives" without knowing much, if any of ALL the matters that are taught in the churches. God in Christ seems to move quite sufficiently apart from the churches themselves. Anyone who happens to pick up a bible might very well be reached. Or any number of other ways as well. The notions that God is confined to only the correct religious authorities is, FALSE. The "best" that the churches seem able to do is what I might term "general coagulation." But there is plenty of friction available to all. Suitable for most to fall into condemnations, apparently.

This is not "intellectual bullying," this is about properly interpreting Scripture, and Scripture itself teaches us we are to judge doctrine and belief so as to avoid those things which are false. This obviously means there are certain things that are true that we are to believe.

It depends on how high the intellectuals want to place that bar. If people believe that no one will be saved unless they have some exact formula for the Trinity figured out, I'd dare say they will be proven wrong. We are not saved by intellectualism.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.


Again, all that we need to know has already been revealed in Scripture. You seem to be giving in to this false idea that experience trumps what the Bible says.

What God Himself said is this:

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It quickly breaks down from there, doesn't it, as we learn "how" to condemn each others. You think all the Trinity proponents who cut out the tongues of others and burned them at the stake and tortured them over God in Christ and their doctrines were RIGHT and SAVED and that this "knowledge" did them any good?

I'd say NEVER and what they learned was in fact totally useless, if that's what their "beliefs" resulted in them doing.

This is one of the reasons why homosexuality is currently making such inroads into the church--people are interpreting Scripture through experience instead of letting Scripture speak.

Yeah, well, when the church members are themselves, sinless, maybe you'd have a point. Morality doesn't equal salvation either, any more than having every jot and tittle of doctrine spot on. Every person that is saved is in fact a sinner, and remains so after salvation.

People that raise the standards of "morality" don't need God in Christ to be 'moral.'

What "christians" in general seem to struggle with is that the mere THOUGHT of sin, is in fact SIN. So, who want's to limbo themselves under that bar?

Matt. 5:28 will be entirely suitable to personally condemn the most ardent anti-homosexuals.

Sorry, none will slide under the non-sinner bar. No, not one.

The believers who look with covetousness upon their neighbors shiny antique car will be standing right next to the effeminate.

1 Cor. 6:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Romans 13:13
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

2 Corinthians 12:20
For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

1 Timothy 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

If ANYONE hasn't located themselves on the list yet, they just aren't looking.