The Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

[ezrider]

Jesus will appear a second time.

He appeared the first time and was seen.

26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:26-28

The context dictates that just as He was not invisible, and appeared the first time, He will also appear a second time.

The word appear carries itself as such.

Appear - Strong's G3700 - optanomai

1. to look at, behold
2. to allow one's self to be seen, to appear

The seconding coming of Christ will be visible, not invisible, and will be seen by all.

• To those who have rejected Him - Mourning, as He will appear for their judgement of punishment.
• To those who eagerly await for Him - He will appear for salvation.

JLB

If as you say that Jesus has not come a second time without sin unto salvation, then you cannot claim that salvation for yourself, and you remain yet dead in your sins. How can we know the salvation of the Lord if we remain yet dead in our sins, and the Spirit of Christ has not yet come? The scripture says we are dead because of sin, but we live by the Spirit of Christ who dwells within us. How can we live by the Spirit of Christ if he has not yet come the second time to salvation?

Went personal reba

 

[reba]

General statement to all of us:
Having a different view of Scripture does not mean some one is ignoring or not accepting Scripture ... We do not all learn at the same pace... My understanding is ABC The other guys understanding is XYZ both are the alphabet.

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Do not reply to this post in this thread..

 

[JLB]

If as you say that Jesus has not come a second time without sin unto salvation, then you cannot claim that salvation for yourself, and you remain yet dead in your sins.

• Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?
• Will you die someday?

If your answer to these questions is yes, then you have the hope of salvation.

Salvation is the end result of your faith in Jesus Christ.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for, the evidence of things not seen.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


When Jesus returns He will gather all His people at the resurrection/rapture, and destroy the wicked, as He takes His place on His throne in Jerusalem to reign as King over the whole earth.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light. 8 And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,” And His name one.

10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.

11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

15 Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:5-16

We will see Him, as He reigns and rules in righteousness from His Throne in Jerusalem.

• For now we have salvation by faith.
• Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

JLB

 

[JLB]

Why can't you acknowledge the promise of His coming in the person of the Holy Spirit?

Rephrase edited reba


Let's please discuss this with scripture.



JLB

 

[reba]

This thread is about a post or 2 from being closed... STOP going personal
do not reply to this post in this thread..

 

[Jim Parker]

Greetings,

I have made a 12 minute video discussing this topic. It is part of my 5 part end times summary videos. I cannot post links but it is on my youtube channel godlord21 titled: "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching! BE WARNED!"

I believe the pre-tribulation rapture is not borne out by the Word of God. I feel it ignores the scripture showing us that we will suffer and be hated in these times, war will be made against us, we will be beheaded and killed for the testimony of our word etc. I feel like the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is contributing to lack of preparedness and the falling away in the body of Christ, when the faith of many will fail under persecution and difficulty as they thought they would never suffer.

In this video I display onscreen all of the Word of God I rely on in my interpretation as I discuss this topic, so please read the information in the video as well.

You are welcome to disagree, and have your own interpretations. I am open to discussion and consideration of others points of view and opinions, however, I feel a lot of scripture must be ignored or distorted to accept the belief of the pre-tribulation rapture.

We are told those who are in the light will not be taken as a thief, they will not be sleeping but being awake and aware of the signs (1 Thes 5:1-8). I see the many signs of the impending judgment of the Lord upon the earth.

The Word tells us of the saints suffering under persecution, being hated by all nations, delivered up to death by their families, killed during the first four seals, made war against by the beast, the dragon, the false-prophet, and their blood found in Babylon (Babylon destroyed Rev 18). I cannot rectify these many areas of the Word of God with the belief that all believers will be taken before the tribulation. We are told that not all who say they are believers are true believers (Matthew 7:21-23), we are told the day of the Lord will not come before an apostasy/falling away and the man of sin exalting himself in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Anyway, you are welcome to consider my video. You can read the video description under the video to get a good summary of my main contention here.

I have made this video and other videos on my channel because I felt a lot of the Word of God was being ignored. I am moving according to my feelings and drivings of my spirit. Again you are welcome to have your own opinions/interpretations, I am open to discussion on these topics.

Kind Regards, Christopher

As I see it:
There is only one return of Christ.
When HE comes, the dead in Christ will rise first and then we who remain alive at that time will rise to meet the Lord in the air.
Then will come the ONE AND ONLY judgment.
And then will come the restoration of all things.


iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

As I see it:
There is only one return of Christ.
When HE comes, the dead in Christ will rise first and then we who remain alive at that time will rise to meet the Lord in the air.
Then will come the ONE AND ONLY judgment.
And then will come the restoration of all things.


iakov the fool

Amen to that!

 

[Anto9us]

• Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?
• Will you die someday?

If your answer to these questions is yes, then you have the hope of salvation.

You may NOT "die someday" but still have hope of salvation.

"We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet"

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[JLB]

You may NOT "die someday" but still have hope of salvation.

The Rapture would indeed be the exception.

 

[Anto9us]

Yep. The one exception.
and
"Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?"
is the one question;
In the present tense -- if you answer YES -- both OSAS and OSnAS is covered
IF I can answer it YES at any given moment,
and get run over crossing the street 'cuz I'm thinkin' about Daniel's 70th week
and not paying attention to traffic--
I'm still gonna be OK

 

[JLB]

Yep. The one exception.
and
"Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?"
is the one question;
In the present tense -- if you answer YES -- both OSAS and OSnAS is covered
IF I can answer it YES at any given moment,
and get run over crossing the street 'cuz I'm thinkin' about Daniel's 70th week
and not paying attention to traffic--
I'm still gonna be OK

 

[JLB]

get run over crossing the street 'cuz I'm thinkin' about Daniel's 70th week

What's your view on the 70th week?

Past or Future?



JLB

 

[Anto9us]

I lean toward future, I'm not dogmatic about it, don't claim to understand everything

I just don't see what could have been that would count as it having happened, even metaphorically
and I don't see that The Man of Sin/Son of Perdition has been destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming

 

[JLB]

I don't see that The Man of Sin has been destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming

You are my new favorite member.


Where is the LIKE button when you need it.



LIKE !!!!

 

[Anto9us]

Thank you JLB

I just burned sumpn on the stove -- tomato soup boiling over -- so ABSENT-MINDED I'm glad I wasn't crossing the street thinkin' about Daniel...

Actually I think this is a pretty TAME "antiPreTrib thread"
I been in some bloody ones in the past

I've had periods of being PreTrib as well as "Pre-Wrath"

I used ta think I could tell someone the Day and the Hour and the MINUTE
and that I knew what the SEVEN THUNDERS told John that he wasn't even supposed to write down

 

[JLB]

Thank you JLB

I just burned sumpn on the stove -- tomato soup boiling over -- so ABSENT-MINDED I'm glad I wasn't crossing the street thinkin' about Daniel...

Actually I think this is a pretty TAME "antiPreTrib thread"
I been in some bloody ones in the past

I've had periods of being PreTrib as well as "Pre-Wrath"

I used ta think I could tell someone the Day and the Hour and the MINUTE
and that I knew what the SEVEN THUNDERS told John that he wasn't even supposed to write down

You hit the nail on the head, when you invoked "His coming".

The pre-trib rapture doctrine is refuted in one verse, if a person understands what the verse says, with surrounding context.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4;17

The rapture and resurrection are one event, that occurs at His coming, along with the destruction of the anti-christ.


JLB

 

[Anto9us]

And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isa 40:5

I wouldn't say "refuted", but definitely dealt a blow...

I WANT to be "Left Behind" --

I WANT To be after "the dead in Christ", let them go first -- I'll defer --

I WANT to see through a glass darkly as long as I can, I'm not like Paul, I've been here a long time and I want to STAY

to go FIRST means I would have kicked the bucket,
and since the final destination is eventually settled -- I want to be here much as I can

 

[JLB]

And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isa 40:5

I wouldn't say "refuted", but definitely dealt a blow...

I WANT to be "Left Behind" --

I WANT To be after "the dead in Christ", let them go first -- I'll defer --

I WANT to see through a glass darkly as long as I can, I'm not like Paul, I've been here a long time and I want to STAY

to go FIRST means I would have kicked the bucket,
and since the final destination is eventually settled -- I want to be here much as I can

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

When has Jesus Christ ever sat on the throne of David and ruled God's earthly kingdom? Where is the throne of David located? It is my understanding that the only way to sit on the throne of David is to enter the gates of Jerusalem. "The times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord" Acts 3:19 last phrase. When is Christ coming to the earth again? Acts 3:21, the times of restitution of all things.

Today Christ is the head of the church, his espoused bride to be. It is in the millennium that Christ will rule over the house of Jacob when the earthly kingdom will be restored: Luke 1:32-33.

Jerusalem was the starting point of the Church, but during the millennium kingdom Jerusalem is the center point. Psalm 132:11 " The LORD hath sworn in truth to David; he will not turn from it: Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne." This is a prophecy about Jesus sitting on the throne of David

Any student of serious study of scripture should be able to see and understand that there is going to be an earthly kingdom in which Jesus will sit on the throne of David, in the city of Jerusalem, on earth, and rule that Kingdom. That is the gospel of the kingdom which was offered to the house of Jacob, Israel, when Jesus Christ walked bodily upon the earth. His triumphal entry into Jerusalem was the offering of the kingdom to Israel, of which they rejected it. It was never a secret that God was going to give gentiles an opportunity for salvation. We see proselytes during the Exodus of Egypt. The "mystery" was the church, the body Of Christ, making of both Jews and Gentiles into one body and taking away that distinction, by breaking down the " middle wall of partition"

 

[Atonement]

This has been one of the most talked about subjects since I joined here. The interpretation of the Word has a lot (if not everything) to do with the views we hold and the reason(s) why. The best practice - be prepared, go about our Father's business doing the work for the Kingdom, and not get caught up in the mere interpretations, but rather live a life that glorifies the Father. In doing so, you can know that when His arrival has finally come, you can be certain you will be a part of that glorious event.