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JLB discusses speaking in tongues

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JLB said:
Brother.


Please help us to understand which of these baptisms you don’t agree with.





You go ahead and define the terms and I will share my perspective.


Meanwhile I have answered your questions so I expect you to answer one of mine.


Which one of these baptisms do you feel is not applicable to the Christian?


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2


all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,


From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.


These correlate to and represent

Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism


I don’t want to keep discussing the baptisms we agree upon.


So to bring clarity to this discussion I’m asking you to show us which one of these you feel are not relevant for us today.



JLB
Click to expand...
JLB said:
Brother.


Please help us to understand which of these baptisms you don’t agree with.





You go ahead and define the terms and I will share my perspective.


Meanwhile I have answered your questions so I expect you to answer one of mine.


Which one of these baptisms do you feel is not applicable to the Christian?


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2


all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,


From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.


These correlate to and represent

Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism


I don’t want to keep discussing the baptisms we agree upon.


So to bring clarity to this discussion I’m asking you to show us which one of these you feel are not relevant for us today.



JLB
Click to expand...
It not a matter of not believing the testimony. Its a matter of not believing in two separate baptisms from Gods hands. That is those who stated they didn't have the Spirit didn't have the Spirit of Christ in them and needed the baptism of the Spirit which would by at Jesus's will. The outward signs given were for a witness to the unsaved.
The method of giving the Spirit is always through Jesus. Whether by signs given or not. Whether the laying on hands or not.

I only hold to one baptism of the Spirit through Jesus.

Randy
 
Randy said:
Johns baptism was from God but not by God. Jesus would be exception. The question is in the context of Authority. John was making straight ways for the Lord and stated the one who the Holy Spirit comes down and remains on is the Christ and the one who will baptize by the Holy Spirit.

Mark 11
By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you authority to do this?”

Jesus replied, “I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin? Tell me!”
Click to expand...
Yes, of course John did not baptize with the Holy Spirit. Johns Baptism was by the authority of God and was a baptism of Repentance which is my point. Johns Baptism was not "man's" baptism.

We see John acting by the authority of God. What authority do you think the water functioned, or do you believe the water did not play a role in Johns baptism for repentance other than getting a person wet as a public display?

Just so you know, I believe the water functioned under Gods authority as much as John functioned under Gods authority.
 
Randy said:
It not a matter of not believing the testimony. Its a matter of not believing in two separate baptisms from Gods hands. That is those who stated they didn't have the Spirit didn't have the Spirit of Christ in them and needed the baptism of the Spirit which would by at Jesus's will. The outward signs given were for a witness to the unsaved.
The method of giving the Spirit is always through Jesus. Whether by signs given or not. Whether the laying on hands or not.

I only hold to one baptism of the Spirit through Jesus.

Randy
Click to expand...

I take it by your answer you are denying that Paul is showing from the Old Testament that there were three baptisms foreshadowed for us today.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2


  • all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,



Can you tell us which of these theee baptisms that you believe are not needed today?


Same question to you Stovebolts.




JLB
 
StoveBolts said:
Yes, of course John did not baptize with the Holy Spirit. Johns Baptism was by the authority of God and was a baptism of Repentance which is my point. Johns Baptism was not "man's" baptism.

We see John acting by the authority of God. What authority do you think the water functioned, or do you believe the water did not play a role in Johns baptism for repentance other than getting a person wet as a public display?

Just so you know, I believe the water functioned under Gods authority as much as John functioned under Gods authority.
Click to expand...


Does that mean you believe there is a baptism in water, and a baptism with the Holy Spirit?

2 Baptisms?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



  • for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.



Baptism in water by man.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.


That’s 2 Different baptisms.


Is this what you believe?


2 Baptisms?



Same question to you Randy.




JLB
 
JLB said:
Brother.


Please help us to understand which of these baptisms you don’t agree with.





You go ahead and define the terms and I will share my perspective.


Meanwhile I have answered your questions so I expect you to answer one of mine.


Which one of these baptisms do you feel is not applicable to the Christian?


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2


all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,


From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.


These correlate to and represent

Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism


I don’t want to keep discussing the baptisms we agree upon.


So to bring clarity to this discussion I’m asking you to show us which one of these you feel are not relevant for us today.



JLB
Click to expand...
I can't answer your question if I'm not sure what your asking.
Sorry.
 
JLB said:
Does that mean you believe there is a baptism in water, and a baptism with the Holy Spirit?

2 Baptisms?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



  • for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.



Baptism in water by man.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.


That’s 2 Different baptisms.


Is this what you believe?


2 Baptisms?



Same question to you Randy.




JLB
Click to expand...
Nope, it's not what I believe, and I dont think Johns baptism was a work of man.
 
StoveBolts said:
I can't answer your question if I'm not sure what your asking.
Sorry.
Click to expand...


How many baptisms are referred to in this passage?


1 or 2?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” John 1:4-5



  1. John truly baptized with water,
  2. but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit



JLB
 
StoveBolts said:
Nope, it's not what I believe, and I dont think Johns baptism was a work of man.
Click to expand...


Do you believe John Baptized with the Holy Spirit? No

Do you believe Jesus Baptized with water? No


Two different people with two different baptisms.


So far there is at least two baptisms mentioned and both come after a person is born again.




JLB
 
JLB said:
Do you believe John Baptized with the Holy Spirit? No

Do you believe Jesus Baptized with water? No


Two different people with two different baptisms.


So far there is at least two baptisms mentioned and both come after a person is born again.




JLB
Click to expand...
The way I understand baptism, there is only one baptism which comes from the authority of God.

How that one baptism functions is at the will of our Father for His good purpose whether it is for repentance, forgiveness, spiritual rebirth, the imparting of the Holy Spirit etc. Much in the way of the Trinity, they are in harmony and not in conflict with each other.

To say Johns baptism was mans baptism in water just because it didn't function to impart the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is to deny the works of God and His authority because Johns Baptism was from heaven, and not of himself.
 
Last edited:
JLB said:
Do you believe John Baptized with the Holy Spirit? No
Do you believe Jesus Baptized with water? No
Two different people with two different baptisms.
So far there is at least two baptisms mentioned and both come after a person is born again.
JLB
Click to expand...

I've never seen it mentioned in scripture that this happens AFTER a person is "born again"...which we know my stance on the mistranslation of "Born Again".

Never once definitively.
 
JohnDB said:
I've never seen it mentioned in scripture that this happens AFTER a person is "born again"...which we know my stance on the mistranslation of "Born Again".

Never once definitively.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard scripture give a prophet credit for Gods work?
 
JohnDB said:
Haven't heard of that either.

Must be emanations from the penumbra
Click to expand...
If we were on the phone talking id break into my Speedy Gonzales voice and say, umbra, umbra, andale andale!

I say, I say boy, yea gotta keep on your toes, a fast one just went past yea!
 
StoveBolts said:
The way I understand baptism, there is only one baptism which comes from the authority of God.

How that one baptism functions is at the will of our Father for His good purpose whether it is for repentance, forgiveness, spiritual rebirth, the imparting of the Holy Spirit etc. Much in the way of the Trinity, they are in harmony and not in conflict with each other.

To say Johns baptism was mans baptism in water just because it didn't function to impart the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is to deny the works of God and His authority because Johns Baptism was from heaven, and not of himself.
Click to expand...


Johns Baptism (a man) is from God.
(Today it is done by a Pastor or minister)

Jesus Baptism with the Holy Spirit is from God.

The Spirit baptizing us into Christ is from God.


I hope this clears up any misperception.



JLB
 
JohnDB said:
I've never seen it mentioned in scripture that this happens AFTER a person is "born again"...which we know my stance on the mistranslation of "Born Again".

Never once definitively.
Click to expand...


Do you believe baptism is for unbelievers?



JLB
 
StoveBolts said:
To say Johns baptism was mans baptism in water just because it didn't function to impart the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is to deny the works of God and His authority because Johns Baptism was from heaven, and not of himself.
Click to expand...


Was John a man or not?


Jesus called it the baptism of John.


Today water baptism is administered by a man, just as it was done by the Apostles in the first century.



JLB
 
StoveBolts said:
The way I understand baptism, there is only one baptism which comes from the authority of God.
Click to expand...


Which one of the three baptisms listed in scripture do you consider to be relavant today?

The Spirit baptises us into Christ
Water Baptism
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit



JLB
 
JLB said:
Johns Baptism (a man) is from God.
(Today it is done by a Pastor or minister)

Jesus Baptism with the Holy Spirit is from God.

The Spirit baptizing us into Christ is from God.


I hope this clears up any misperception.



JLB
Click to expand...
What is more important, the gift or the altar it is put upon?

I have understood you clearly for several years now how you take Gods work and reduce it to man's deeds. I have not challenged you, not faulted you as it is a reflection of the faith God has granted you.

If you are asking me to agree with you, I cannot as I only see one baptism from God.

We like to say that God works through us and we are simply the conduits for God. But before I go on, you have a scriptural misunderstanding.

Johns baptism was for repentance. Jesus baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.

What is apparent to me is this? John was a prophet of God. As a prophet, he spoke Gods very words and God did mighty things through him. When I look at the prophet Elijah, it was God who raised the widows child from the dead, Elijah was simply the conduit.

In this same way, John's baptism was not human in origin. It was Gods work through John for John has no authority other than what God gifted him and the baptism was from God through John. God used both John and water as instruments to show his authority.

Jesus commands us to baptize in His name. That is to say we baptize not on our authority, but the very authority of God for it is not man who baptizes, but God. We, like Elijah and John are obedient conduits.

Moses parted the sea, but it wasn't the authority of Moses which parted the waters.

I know you will disagree, and that's fine, your allowed to do that.
 
Last edited:
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