Temporal Salvation?

[LovethroughDove]

You're not understanding what's going on.
It is being argued that if you try to be holy you are not resting in Christ. So if that means you sin, even purposely, oh well, that's God's problem because if you did anything about it you'd be working and not resting in Christ--you'd be sinning. I wouldn't be surprised if this sounds right to you. This false doctrine has infiltrated the church so deeply that many 'Christians' can not recognize it for the junk doctrine that it is.

I guess he should speak from himself, cause I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I know though you have been labeling people as false indoctrination and I actually haven't been hearing in the church what has been stated on this thread. That Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith...........that those who hear his voice follow..........

You are seeing that any type of person......the devil's children.........are receiving Christ somehow and doing whatever to the blood and calling it holy. That is not what is happening here.

1 John 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with the one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him our to be a liar and the word has no place in our lives.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.

You are seeing that any type of person......the devil's children.........are receiving Christ somehow and doing whatever to the blood and calling it holy.

No, believers sanctified by the blood of Christ are trampling on the blood and calling it holy.
Though, certainly, a number of these simply are not Christians to begin with.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I guess he should speak from himself, cause I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

I figured you wouldn't see it. I'm amazed at how many people can't see this deceit in the church today, even when you talk directly to them about it and show them what people are saying. It's almost scary how Christians can say (and live) what they do and then when you point it out to them they instantly go into denial about it. This inability to see what's going on, and this fierce denial, is what convinces me this is a demonic spirit at work in the church blinding the eyes of the church, and not just a casual difference of doctrinal opinion. We are witnessing the end times falling away of the church, IMO.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I figured you wouldn't see it. I'm amazed at how many people can't see this deceit in the church today, even when you talk directly to them about it and show them what people are saying. It's almost scary how Christians can say (and live) what they do and then when you point it out to them they instantly go into denial about it. This inability to see what's going on, and this fierce denial, is what convinces me this is a demonic spirit at work in the church blinding the eyes of the church, and not just a casual difference of doctrinal opinion. We are witnessing the end times falling away of the church, IMO.

Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand"

I'm outta here. I don't want you to blaspheme the Spirit, if you haven't already.

 

[jerry63935]

What happens with indoctrinations is, first, the indoctrinated person will not see the plain words in scripture that defy what they believe. Apparently, that's where you're at right now. Then when they can no longer deny what the passage says they will invent a way for those words to not really apply to them or make them not really mean what they say."

if this be the case this falls on every one.. the word doctrine means teaching.. see denominations draw lines in the sand called doctrine.. from osas to osnas speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy ghost . no musical instruments in the worship service... no canned music accompaniment music if it has drums.. some independent baptist feel drums in the Church is unGodly . the list goes on and on and never stops. while those who oppose are playing the indoctrinated trump card .

if it that indoctrination Goes against the teaching of saved by grace through faith . then by all means label it false . many hold to there belief ( including me ) its due to the fact they studied it out . feel this is correct for them by all means it is right for them .

but yet man has a hard accepting one outside their circle

 

[jerry63935]

how many people can't see this deceit in the church today,

what decit would that be?

 

[JLB]

Yes, this is exactly how born agains walk. It is a natural process! Romans 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Obeying and being led by the Spirit is a choice we as born again Christians must make each day, if we expect to inherit eternal life.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit will led us and empower us to love our neighbor.
This is the way of life; The way of eternal life.


And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

what decit would that be?

That it's better for you to sin instead of you purposely trying not to sin because that would be works. That's called resting in Christ and not trying to save yourself. The church is deluded.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

if this be the case this falls on every one.. the word doctrine means teaching..

Yes.
I use the word 'indoctrinated' in every negative sense of the word.
If I explained every detail about what I'm saying my posts would be too long.
Best to just address these kinds of issues as they come up.

 

[jerry63935]

That it's better for you to sin instead of you purposely trying not to sin because that would be works. That's called resting in Christ and not trying to save yourself. The church is deluded.

dont know where you ran on to that ..i have yet to hear it

 

[jerry63935]

Yes.
I use the word 'indoctrinated' in every negative sense of the word.
If I explained every detail about what I'm saying my posts would be too long.
Best to just address these kinds of issues as they come up.

actually you need to explain
in•doc•tri•nate ĭn-dŏk′trə-nāt″
►

• transitive verb
  To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles.
• transitive verb
  To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view.
• 
  To imbue with learning, or with a particular doctrine or principle; cause to hold as a doctrine or belief; instruct.

in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
to teach or inculcate.
to imbue with learning.
we are all indoctrinated in our belief

 

[JLB]

That it's better for you to sin instead of you purposely trying not to sin because that would be works. That's called resting in Christ and not trying to save yourself. The church is deluded.

What’s so utterly sad, is the very people who are opposing what you are trying to convey, don't even understand what the discussion is about. They just know they don’t agree with with you because they know where you stand.

 

[JLB]

I figured you wouldn't see it. I'm amazed at how many people can't see this deceit in the church today, even when you talk directly to them about it and show them what people are saying. It's almost scary how Christians can say (and live) what they do and then when you point it out to them they instantly go into denial about it. This inability to see what's going on, and this fierce denial, is what convinces me this is a demonic spirit at work in the church blinding the eyes of the church, and not just a casual difference of doctrinal opinion. We are witnessing the end times falling away of the church, IMO.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

• giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

We are withessing first hand what the Bible portrays as a “flood of deception“, being unleashed against God’s people.


So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. Revelation 12:14

• the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman,

JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

I actually was saying that we will be more holy than what Jethro is trying to convince us of, because it will be Christ doing it rather than our "dead self". If the doctrine on here is gonna be hijacked by people saying that there are people condoning sin.........that is why I say I'm out........cause that was NEVER stated in this thread! But, you all can't say you are sinless otherwise you are lying and the truth is not in you. Christ does his job when we repent, and also when we let his holiness work through us.

 

[jerry63935]

there are people condoning sin.........that is why I say I'm out........cause that was NEVER stated in this thread!

i have yet to read it and i have never heard this taught to say this goes against scripture . shall we sin because under grace Paul said certainly not. when he wrote that it should be enough word to know let sin alone sin does not need a booster its in us. we just have to allow the Holy spirit to help us keep it in tack. i man once said its not so much the things i dont understand that bothers me. but its the thing i do know that does

 

[JLB]

I actually was saying that we will be more holy than what Jethro is trying to convince us of, because it will be Christ doing it rather than our "dead self". If the doctrine on here is gonna be hijacked by people saying that there are people condoning sin.........that is why I say I'm out........cause that was NEVER stated in this thread! But, you all can't say you are sinless otherwise you are lying and the truth is not in you. Christ does his job when we repent, and also when we let his holiness work through us.

The Spirit works with us each and everyday, to empower us to walk according to the Spirit; to practice righteousness.


This involves our participation to live according to the Spirit, who dwells within us, rather than living according to the sinful desires of our flesh.


The Spirit will led us and empower us to love our neighbor.
This is the way of life; The way of eternal life.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


Here are the two choices we as born again Christians, (people who can indeed walk in the Spirit), we are faced with each and everyday.

1. For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
2. but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

These are the two choices; live according to the flesh, or live according to the Spirit.


Notice the phrase... if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Please read that —

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Can you see that we are required to put to death (crucify) the deeds of the body... by the Spirit.


There is a divine effort that we as Christians must put forth in this daily battle against our flesh. Our flesh strives against the Spirit. It’s a battle.

The question is, whose side are you on?


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Are we investing ourselves towards strengthening our inner man, or are we investing our time gratifying our flesh.


Blood Bought 1953 says to live anyway we want.

That’s his narrative. Go back and read it more yourself.

The reason he gave is we are to rest in “the Gospel of grace“...which he says is found in Hebrews 3&4. As we discovered it’s not found in Hebrews or anywhere else in the Bible but it came from a book he read.


This is what Jethro is addressing; what he is pushing back on.


Blood Bought 1953 believes and many people in the church as well, is if we try to put forth the effort to practice righteousness and live according to the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit, which is to love God and love our neighbor, we are then not “resting in the Gospel of grace”... we are trying to earn our salvation.


That’s what the discussion is about between Jethro Bodine and Blood Bought 1953.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

There is no such thing as temporal salvation as there is no fence riding when it comes to eternal life in Christ. A true believer is kept secure by the power of God and sealed for the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. All which God gives to Christ He will lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day John 6:38-40.

If you are lukewarm like those of the Church of Laodicea and grieve the Holy Spirit, God will spew you out of His mouth as you were never truly His own, Rev 3:15, 16; Ephesians 4:30

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Obeying and being led by the Spirit is a choice we as born again Christians must make each day, if we expect to inherit eternal life.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit will led us and empower us to love our neighbor.
This is the way of life; The way of eternal life.


And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28



JLB

NOBODY ever “ did “ this except Jesus.....this is why we need a great big LOOP HOLE.....it involves GRACE .....maybe some don’t need it.....maybe they are under the Delusion that they actually Love God with ALL their Heart.....ALL their Mind .....and ALL their Soul. Trust me— they don’t.Here’s another False Belief they don’t understand—- they aint “ Holy” either. ( unless their Holiness is an imputed one- just like the Righteousness one does not have unless it is an imputed one )
Oops... I got side tracked there for a second.That Loop Hole I was talking about? It’s in 1Cor 15:1-4.......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:18

Did Jesus ever say in regard to James that we should “ follow James as he follows Christ” If your response was “ No”——- go to the Head Of the Class!
Jesus told me , and probably you too, if you are a Gentile, you are to “Follow Paul”. That is what I do when these two Titans Of our Faith disagree on matters......there are NO contradictions between Peter and Paul. It just appears that way .God will clear up this matter “ over there”.... meanwhile , I will go with the one God said “ to follow”. God said Paul was “ a Chosen Vessel”
James did not get the endorsement that Paul received .....A man wont go wrong by going with either one of these men .....having said that, I have made myChoice—— I am going with Paul......

 

[JLB]

NOBODY ever “ did “ this except Jesus.....this is why we need a great big LOOP HOLE.....it involves GRACE ...

Grace is the God given ability, the power to do what we could not do without it. Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of grace which empowers us to obey the Lord and keep His commandments.

Because we have the same Holy Spirit that Jesus had when He walked this earth which empowered Him to live His life in obedience before His Father, we can keep His commandments.


If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10


The scriptures tell us His commandments are not burdensome.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His Commandments are about love. Why do you teach us that it is impossible to love?

We are told to “put on Christ” and “put off the old man”.


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:8-16

• But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
Colossians 3:8-10

• Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
• and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,

Again, this takes effort on our part, by the Spirit, to do these things.


I encourage you to learn how to do these things before you pass on from this life. The first step is to believe what the Spirit is teaching us to do. Believe the Holy Spirit, not the enemy.



JLB