Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

[rogerg]

Amen to that !!!

wait - we agree? Is that even possible ? somethings a-happening here - what it is ain't exactly clear.
(you're probably to young to relate to that)

 

[Fastfredy0]

There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift.

Kewl, I can tell all my friends that if they say "I accept your gift of salvation Lord" they will go to heaven. That's so easy.
.... and here I was saying they have to have knowledge of Christ, be convicted of the evidence and trust God to be true as evidenced by obeying Him.

 

[JLB]

somethings a-happening here - what it is ain't exactly clear.

stop children what’s that sound…

 

[rogerg]

stop children what’s that sound…

lol

 

[rogerg]

There is only one Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world. This book, plus a few others will be opened at the Great White Throne judgement and only those whose names have been found written in the Lamb's book of life will receive eternal life. Those whose names were blotted out for their unrighteousness of not being obedient to God's commands will be thrown into the Lake of fire.

Nope - has to be two books because not everyone's names ever be born were written into the second one. That is,
names are missing from it but they had to be written somewhere

[Rev 17:8 KJV]
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Since those who have been given eternal life in the next world were written into the second book, then there would of necessity also have to be a book containing the names of all those ever born including those who don't inherit
eternal life or they wouldn't have existed

 

[for_his_glory]

I guess you changed your position because you previously stated, "Everyone that has ever died are still in their graves waiting for the resurrection when Christ returns on the last day." That is the definition of soul sleep.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This has nothing to do with the false teaching of soul sleep.

Jesus nor the angels have never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that made us a living soul that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body dies and returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.​

Rev 5:8 ---> "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

St. John explicitly describes God receiving prayers from someone other than the primary petitioner in Rev. 5:8. This makes the person presenting and taking the prayers of the primary petitioner to God - by definition - an intercessor.

It's not only the Apostles that only some Catholics pray to that are saints, but all that are Christ own who have entered into the Christian covenant of baptism in Christ and are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Colossians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1

David also invokes the "heavenly hosts", "angels" those "from the heavens" and those "in the heights above."

---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will." (Psalm 103:21)

---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts." (Psalm 148:1-2)

Heavenly host are the angels in heaven, not humans who have died. Genesis 2:1; Nehemiah 9:6; Luke 2:13.
This needs to be another thread

The Communion of Saints does not have anything to do with other religions. It is the Christian belief that the members of the Church are united in both heaven and on earth.

Again this needs to be another thread. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[for_his_glory]

[ACMP=warning]
All post not related to the OP will be deleted. Please feel free to start your own thread if you want to discuss other topics for discussion. Please stay on topic. Thank you.
[/ACMP]

 

[for_his_glory]

Nope - has to be two books because not everyone's names ever be born were written into the second one. That is,
names are missing from it but they had to be written somewhere

[Rev 17:8 KJV]
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Since those who have been given eternal life in the next world were written into the second book, then there would of necessity also have to be a book containing the names of all those ever born including those who don't inherit
eternal life or they wouldn't have existed

It doesn't seem like you are getting it. We were all created to be holy without blame before the Lord on the day God created us. Good or bad we are all His creation, but yet not all are His own as they reject Him and will have no place in the New Jerusalem, but will also be cast into the lake of fire. These books are not literal books, but symbolic of all the names of every person that has ever been born. God does not literally write down every name and then literally blot some names out. We either accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and walk in obedience to His commands, or we reject Him wherefore we do not walk according to His commands which we will be judged for and in judgement of God, again will have no place in the kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[for_his_glory]

Kewl, I can tell all my friends that if they say "I accept your gift of salvation Lord" they will go to heaven. That's so easy.
.... and here I was saying they have to have knowledge of Christ, be convicted of the evidence and trust God to be true as evidenced by obeying Him.

It is that easy as long as they confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior, Romans 10:9-10. Why would anyone make it hard to accept this free gift from God given by His grace. Once we accept God's plan of salvation (Christ Jesus) then we start our journey in getting to know Christ and what it is we are to be obedient to in His commands.

 

[rogerg]

It doesn't seem like you are getting it. We were all created to be holy without blame before the Lord on the day God created us. Good or bad we are all His creation, but yet not all are His own as they reject Him and will have no place in the New Jerusalem, but will also be cast into the lake of fire. These books are not literal books, but symbolic of all the names of every person that has ever been born. God does not literally write down every name and then literally blot some names out. We either accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and walk in obedience to His commands, or we reject Him wherefore we do not walk according to His commands which we will be judged for and in judgement of God, again will have no place in the kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem.

Most. if not all, of what you've said here you cannot substantiate from the Bible. The thing is, I don't feel like going through point by point and refuting it, at least not right now, though I might later. You have taken a lot of liberties
by your statements regarding what the Bible informs us of by telling us to ignore what's been written. As a word of caution, you would be wise to be careful and not be frivolous where the Bible is concerned.

When the Bible tells us that something has been "written" or that "books were opened", do you think it is your prerogative to, in effect, refute or invalidate that of your own accord? If you can substantiate your comments that "written" isn't "written" and "books" aren't "books", please post those verses which support that and enlighten me so that I might learn from them. If you don't or cannot, I would say your credibility might suffer as a result. Why you would include Rev 20:12 is a total mystery to me as it supports what I said, not what you said. Please explain.

[Rev 20:12 KJV] 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
[Rev 21:27 KJV] 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[for_his_glory]

Agreed ... but you have a scripture saying "names were blotted out"? (I know there a verse about not blotting out people, but not one about blotting people out)

Aside: It's only a technicality... just curious.

Here are three for you.

Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[for_his_glory]

You have taken a lot of liberties
by your statements regarding what the Bible informs us of by telling us to ignore what's been written. As a word of caution, you would be wise to be careful and not be frivolous where the Bible is concerned.

Where have I ever said to ignore what's been written? The statements I make are all lined up with the scriptures I give. Please show me with scripture where I have error so I can be corrected.

 

[rogerg]

Please show me with scripture where I have error so I can be corrected.

What's a symbolic book ? Where do you find that in the Bible? Please provide the verse(s)

 

[Fastfredy0]

Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Interesting. I can't count the third one as it says God will NOT blot out and the question was evidence of blotting out.

Hmmm, so if 'blotting out' be true and you have given evidence of that possibility then an all knowing God writes names into a book knowing He will erase them later. Interesting ... again, not than this is a BIGGY thing ...

Good find on the first 2 verses .. .thx

 

[for_his_glory]

Most. if not all, of what you've said here you cannot substantiate from the Bible. The thing is, I don't feel like going through point by point and refuting it, at least not right now, though I might later. You have taken a lot of liberties
by your statements regarding what the Bible informs us of by telling us to ignore what's been written. As a word of caution, you would be wise to be careful and not be frivolous where the Bible is concerned.

When the Bible tells us that something has been "written" or that "books were opened", do you think it is your prerogative to, in effect, refute or invalidate that of your own accord? If you can substantiate your comments that "written" isn't "written" and "books" aren't "books", please post those verses which support that and enlighten me so that I might learn from them. If you don't or cannot, I would say your credibility might suffer as a result. Why you would include Rev 20:12 is a total mystery to me as it supports what I said, not what you said. Please explain.

[Rev 20:12 KJV] 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
[Rev 21:27 KJV] 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

There is a difference between the literal and the symbolic of what is written in the scriptures. Probably more so in the book of Rev then any other book. Many have turned away from God since the time of Adam who walk in disobedience to God's commands. Do you think they will be with God in the New Jerusalem?

 

[rogerg]

There is a difference between the literal and the symbolic of what is written in the scriptures. Probably more so in the book of Rev then any other book. Many have turned away from God since the time of Adam who walk in disobedience to God's commands. Do you think they will be with God in the New Jerusalem?

Wait you said "God does not literally write down every name and then literally blot some names out. " Where did you get that from? It would be a major change to the biblical text if true.
Whether someone will or will not be with God is not what is at issue right now -- that's a different one.

 

[for_his_glory]

What's a symbolic book ? Where do you find that in the Bible? Please provide the verse(s)

I said to please show me with scripture where I have error. I can not make you understand the difference between symbolism and the literal and this has nothing to do with the topic of the OP. If you would like to start a new thread on this you are more than welcome to do so. Just tag me into it and we can discuss it there.

 

[for_his_glory]

Wait you said "God does not literally write down every name and then literally blot some names out. " Where did you get that from? It would be a major change to the biblical text if true.
Whether someone will or will not be with God is not what is at issue right now -- that's a different one.

If you want to believe God sits on His throne and spends His time literally writing and blotting out names in a book all day, which would have to be a very very very large book that an ordinary man could not even pick up, then that is your prerogative. I can not make you see nor have the time to show you the difference between something that is symbolic or actually literal in scripture as like everyone else this is something you have to learn on your own by allowing the Holy Spirit give you the wisdom and understanding.

 

[rogerg]

I said to please show me with scripture where I have error. I can not make you understand the difference between symbolism and the literal and this has nothing to do with the topic of the OP. If you would like to start a new thread on this you are more than welcome to do so. Just tag me into it and we can discuss it there.

You're kidding, right? I understand symbolism, but the text wasn't being symbolic. The question at hand is what in the Bible gave you the justification to make that statement and that it was symbolic? Please identify the verses.

 

[rogerg]

If you want to believe God sits on His throne and spends His time literally writing and blotting out names in a book all day, which would have to be a very very very large book that an ordinary man could not even pick up, then that is your prerogative.

Okay, I got it, you don't have the verses - I'll let it go at that