Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Dorothy Mae]

Then you don't like what the Bible says.

Act 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Who did Jesus pay?

 

[electedbyhim]

God isn’t provoked into killing people right and left before their time and scripture doesn’t say he does. It’s better not to accuse him of that which He doesn’t do in general. But what it does say is we can totally miss Gods plan written in the book. Written in the book isn’t written in stone.

So your belief, by your own words, is what is written in Scripture is not set in stone. God changes?

Noted!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So your belief, by your own words, is what is written in Scripture is not set in stone. God changes?

Noted!

The reference is the days of a man's life. Where is scripture is a particular man's life written in detail beforehand? We are talking "all the days of his life."

 

[Whatever]

Who did Jesus pay?

If you don't believe your Bible says that Jesus purchased the Church with His own blood, don't ask me. Pray about it.

 

[electedbyhim]

The reference is the days of a man's life. Where is scripture is a particular man's life written in detail beforehand? We are talking "all the days of his life."

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unshaped substance; And in Your book all of them were written The days that were formed for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

 

[electedbyhim]

The reference is the days of a man's life. Where is scripture is a particular man's life written in detail beforehand? We are talking "all the days of his life."

You are very difficult to understand and I am not the first one in this thread to state this.

It is often said, that when a person is not understood easily it is because they do not have the knowledge of what they are trying to say.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Edward]

You guys translate the Titus passage as "the grace of God has appeared to every single human being on Earth."
I understand it to be saying that "the grace of God has appeared to mankind." It will eventually over time reach most people, but even now 2,000 years later, it still has not reached some.

Is sounds like we agree. Mankind is everyone. All have not heard it. All will not accept it. I don't see a disagreement here.

 

[Whatever]

Is sounds like we agree. Mankind is everyone. All have not heard it. All will not accept it. I don't see a disagreement here.

Well, the verse says the grace of God has appeared to "all" men. Most would say that means that somehow, every single human being has seen or heard it. I disagree, you seem to also.

 

[Whatever]

Who did Jesus pay?

Let me post this from Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of the NT on the word RANSOM.

1. lutron (G3383), lit., "a means of loosing" (from luo, "to loose"), occurs frequently in the Sept., where it is always used to signify "equivalence." Thus it is used of the "ransom" for a life, e.g., Exo_21:30, of the redemption price of a slave, e.g., Lev_19:20, of land, Lev_25:24, of the price of a captive, Isa_45:13. In the NT it occurs in Mat_20:28 and Mar_10:45, where it is used of Christ's gift of Himself as "a ransom for many." Some interpreters have regarded the "ransom" price as being paid to Satan; others, to an impersonal power such as death, or evil, or "that ultimate necessity which has made the whole course of things what it has been." Such ideas are largely conjectural, the result of an attempt to press the details of certain Old Testament illustrations beyond the actual statements of New Testament doctrines.
That Christ gave up His life in expiatory sacrifice under God's judgment upon sin and thus provided a "ransom" whereby those who receive Him on this ground obtain deliverance from the penalty due to sin, is what Scripture teaches. What the Lord states in the two passages mentioned involves this essential character of His death. In these passages the preposition is anti, which has a vicarious significance, indicating that the "ransom" holds good for those who, accepting it as such, no longer remain in death since Christ suffered death in their stead. The change of preposition in 1Ti_2:6, where the word antilutron. a substitutionarv "ransom," is used, is significant. There the preposition is huper, "on behalf of," and the statement is made that He "gave Himself a ransom for all," indicating that the "ransom" was provisionally universal, while being of a vicarious character. Thus the three passages consistently show that while the provision was universal, for Christ died for all men, yet it is actual for those only who accept God's conditions, and who are described in the Gospel statements as "the many." The giving of His life was the giving of His entire person, and while His death under divine judgment was alone expiatory, it cannot be dissociated from the character of His life which, being sinless, gave virtue to His death and was a testimony to the fact that His death must be of a vicarious nature.

 

[journeyman]

A choice they can never make, neither are they able to choose. Why? Because they're blind and lost.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The passage you cited says the devil blinds the minds of unbelievers who don't understand the gospel, which is, the Image of God on earth was sinned against horribly....and still willing to forgive the repentant. Do you agree? And if you disagree, why do you think God came here?

[Rev 5:12 KJV] 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Personally, if I was God and sombody spit on me, I'd knock his head off. Worthy is the Lamb that was (spit on slapped, punched, mocked and) slain! And turned the other cheek???AMEN!!!

[Eph 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The passage you cited says that Jesus did not bring sinners into judgement by the law (which he had every right to do). Instead, he put the law to death at the cross, where wicked men heaped their sins on him. He did it to have mercy on all "both" (that is, all mankind.)

Faith is given only as a fruit of the Spirit. Those who believe, do so by that fruit - true faith is not of oneself

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God created all mankind with the ability to have faith. I showed the same thing in my last post about "natural affection", or compassion, but after rereading it, it came out sounding crass toward you, which wasn't my intention. My intention was to show how Paul regarded the lost as having a Godly sense of compassion, which will desolve in the latter days.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

For the love of God, he's saying we believe in Jesus, because he proved God true by rising from the dead!

 

[Edward]

Well, the verse says the grace of God has appeared to "all" men. Most would say that means that somehow, every single human being has seen or heard it. I disagree, you seem to also.

So you have seen, grace? What color is it? I've never seen it before, just it's effects.

 

[Edward]

Well, the verse says the grace of God has appeared to "all" men. Most would say that means that somehow, every single human being has seen or heard it. I disagree, you seem to also.

All men, would fit the description of every single person on earth. Once everyone has had the chance to hear the gospel message, they can choose to reject it or accept it.

After that the Harvest.

 

[journeyman]

No, it clearly says that he purchased the Church. The price was His own blood.

God doesn't need.to buy anything, because,

If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is mine, and all that is in it. Psa.50:12

When mention is made of a price, and of Christians as bought with a price, the terms plainly enough display the nature, intention, and scope of Christ’s death. The Lord’s delivery to death was the price by which we were bought. The allusion is to the well–known prevalent custom of classical times, with which the apostle was familiar, by which, on the payment of a price, a slave passed out of the hands of one master into the service of another.

As to the price paid, it is elsewhere sufficiently described, when it is represented as the act of Christ, who gave His life a ransom for many.

The meaning of the passage will be evident from the following outline. It presupposes captivity: it takes for granted that in our natural condition we were sold under sin, exposed to the curse, subject to Satan, according to the just Judgment of God, and that a ransom was necessary and fully paid; not, indeed, to Satan, who was but the executioner of God’s justice, but to God, our original owner, and the fountain of justice, to whom we are by this means legitimately restored.

Furthermore,

This is what the LORD says: “Where is your mother’s certificate of divorce with which I sent her away? Or to which of my creditors did I sell you? Because of your sins you were sold; because of your transgressions your mother was sent away.
Isa.50:1

This can only make sense with the passage you cited if the blood of Christ was "spent" to wake people up. Of course, rising from the dead would be the best way to do that.

 

[electedbyhim]

We all got of track......

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

 

[Edward]

Again, you are selling Grace short, it comes saving those whom Christ died and redeemed, His Elect, it says nothing about making grace available, thats a figment of your imagination.

I thik you are confusing grace, with Favor.

You still have to receive the grace.

2 Chronicles 30:9 KJV​

9 For if ye turn again unto the Lord, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the Lord your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.../

Grace enables us to be able to be overcomers. It's not like, I can live my own life and God will save me no matter what because of grace. One still has to have faith and a contrite heart.

That is a pretty big "if" that I bolded...

 

[rogerg]

The passage you cited says the devil blinds the minds of unbelievers who don't understand the gospel, which is, the Image of God on earth was sinned against horribly....and still willing to forgive the repentant. Do you agree? And if you disagree, why do you think God came here?

If I understand you, I disagree. God forgives and from and by that do those who have been forgiven, repent: a byproduct. Repentance is a gift from God, but the repentance is from dead works unto a complete trust in the efficacy of Christ.

[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[Heb 9:14 KJV] 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The passage you cited says that Jesus did not bring sinners into judgement by the law (which he had every right to do). Instead, he put the law to death at the cross, where wicked men heaped their sins on him. He did it to have mercy on all "both" (that is, all mankind.)

Where He took upon Himself the sin of only those He came to save, not all mankind or all mankind would be saved
which they're not.

God created all mankind with the ability to have faith. I showed the same thing in my last post about "natural affection", or compassion, but after rereading it, it came out sounding crass toward you, which wasn't my intention. My intention was to show how Paul regarded the lost as having a Godly sense of compassion, which will desolve in the latter days.

It is impossible for the unsaved to have faith in Christ: natural man cannot believe in Him. Belief in Christ is given only as a fruit of the Spirit upon becoming born again.

And I took no offense to what you posted.

For the love of God, he's saying we believe in Jesus, because he proved God true by rising from the dead!

Nope. Read it again. It does not say what you say. "by him" means that those who believe do so only BY God: it is God who gives belief. Were it to be as you say, then the verse couldn't truthfully say "by God" because belief wouldn't/couldn't be by God but of themselves.
See my reply immediately above.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[rogerg]

I thik you are confusing grace, with Favor.

You still have to receive the grace.

If someone has to receive grace of themselves in order to have it, then that's not grace. Grace is all-encompassing
and dependent upon nothing but its giver (God) and itself in order for it to be grace.

 

[journeyman]

"paid for doing right"? What does that mean? Where do you find that conclusion in that verse?

It says he purchased us with his blood. It's against the law to put an innocent man to death. He went in spite of it,

keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith. For the joy set out for him he endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb.12:2

Can you imagine this? I would have killed everyone of them, but who am I? It's mind blowing!

[Heb 9:15 KJV] 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

He means under the old covenant, Jesus could not have overcome death if he was guilty. It's the same as,

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sinin the flesh: Rom.8:3

He means the old covenants sacrifices once killed, remained dead.

 

[brightfame52]

I thik you are confusing grace, with Favor.

You still have to receive the grace.

2 Chronicles 30:9 KJV​

9 For if ye turn again unto the Lord, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the Lord your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.../

Grace enables us to be able to be overcomers. It's not like, I can live my own life and God will save me no matter what because of grace. One still has to have faith and a contrite heart.

That is a pretty big "if" that I bolded...

I believe you selling Grace short. Grace and Favor are interchangeable, the same. The word grace charis:

1. grace
   1. that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
2. good will, loving-kindness, favour

In fact its translated favor Lk 1:30

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Acts 7 46

Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

In Titus 2 11 Grace actually saves !

 

[journeyman]

If I understand you, I disagree. God forgives and from and by that do those who have been forgiven, repent: a byproduct.

It should be, as our Savior taught,

Then his lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; Mt.18:32

Repentance is a gift from God, but the repentance is from dead works unto a complete trust in the efficacy of Christ.

[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

To not lay again the foundation of repentance from "dead works", that is, to stop straddling the fence,

Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered...Eze.18:23-24

His works are dead and so is his faith,

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jas.2:17

[Heb 9:14 KJV] 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Exactly! If the blood of innocent animals which remained dead convinced people that their sins were forgiven, how much more would the blood of Christ!

Where He took upon Himself the sin of only those He came to save, not all mankind or all mankind would be saved
which they're not.

No they wouldn't all be saved. The unsaved would be damned for what they did to him and not repenting of it,

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Jn.3:36

rogerg:
It is impossible for the unsaved to have faith in Christ: natural man cannot believe in Him. Belief in Christ is given only as a fruit of the Spirit upon becoming born again.

I've cited many passages showing people having faith in God before being born again. Here's how becoming born again goes,

Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Jn.14:23

Humility toward God comes first. Then the Spirit isgiven.And so,

he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No Act.19:2

And I took no offense to what you posted.

Nope. Read it again. It does not say what you say. "by him" means that those who believe do so only BY God: it is God who gives belief. Were it to be as you say, then the verse couldn't truthfully say "by God" because belief wouldn't/couldn't be by God but of themselves.
See my reply immediately above.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I'm going to tell you a secret.....Jesus is God.