Not the church founded by God in Christ
He makes no errors and needs no reform
Who is the arbiter of truth?
Who can decide truth
spiritual and physical
Invisible and visible
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 5:14
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
John MacArthur: Distinguished Calvinist Preacher.
- Thread starter JAG ..
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He makes no errors and needs no reform
Who is the arbiter of truth?
Who can decide truth
Invisible and visible
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 5:14
Iconoclast
Member
Well that explains why you gave no Biblical thought to his comments.
Are you injured and unable to open your bible?When you do not know a passage do you pause and look it up?
At the link I agree with .Which 2.5 points?
Are you serious?
Universal Atonement
Resistible Grace
Fall from Grace
The definition of freewill they give I agree 50% , kind of
So 3.5 points
Oops.At the link I agree with .
Universal Atonement
Resistible Grace
Fall from Grace
The definition of freewill they give I agree 50% , kind of
So 3.5 points
I didn't see any link.
The problem with showing up in the middle of a thread!
I agree with you.
I agree with libertarian free will.
Was that spoken of?
The Freemasons invented communism
Then where is our King and Queen?
Dorothy Mae
Member
Karl Marx did.
Who decides what is the word of God?
Why did Christ found a church of apostles to teach all men?
Matt 16:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8
God Himself.
It's His Word.
Let Him preserve it as Promised to His Church.
The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth in gathering scrolls, compare then, and see His Word manifest among the over 5,200 manuscripts and fragments, and lectionaries, and writings of thye TIME.
He Promised His Word will persevere, and it has.
The Authorized King James Version.
In use in Greek texts used by the Church from the first century 1600 years) until the completion of the KJV (another 400 years.)
Despite ALL attempts of man to discredit it and destroy it.
Won't happen.
Not one jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled!
Thank you, Jesus..
The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ was founded in Jerusalem.
Peter was a pebble, Christ is the Rock as confirmed in the Psalms and elsewhere.
Jesus Christ is a "Jewish" Messiah prophesied to Israel, He arrived to Israel, He was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, and He sends the apostles to the four cardinal points of the compass TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL scattered, as James said all throughout the then-known world.
Soon, God turns His attention fully to Israel when the Times of Gentiles ends, and Israel's "Jewish" Messiah comes to Israel and to sit on the throne of David AT JERUSALEM.
Not Rome.
Iconoclast
Member
So we would have the scriptures and not have to rely on Roman Catholic stories and fables.We can read and obey the truth as God designed.
Jesus did not say for us to be gullible but wise!
Marx and Engels were figureheads, front men used to give it legitimacy, it was from the depths of hell, and the minions of satan written in the lodge.
The great rebellion began by Lucifer and continues by men duped by satan with a seething hatred for God, Christ, His church and all thing ordained by God like marrige, the whole purpose for a new world order is to destroy the old world order established by God and all memories of God!
Show me a list of scripture?
A list of the Ten Commandments?
The commandments in Matt 28:20?
All from scripture alone please?
Is the word of God limited to scripture?
It’s not the new covenant for all men?
Matt 16:17
Jesus declares Peter’s person not confession to be blessed!
Peter is the rock chosen by God!
Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
God chose Peter!
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Is Peter’s person blessed or Peter’s confession?
Does Peter’s confession or Peter’s person receive divine revelation?
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
When God changes a man’s name abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel or Simon to Peter it signifies an office!
Is Peter’s person or Peter’s confession who’s name is changed?
And! Peter and rock are the same!
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?
Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?
Did the Father send Christ or a confession of Christ?
Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!
Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ!
Christ sends Peter not his confession!
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone, and instructed peter to minister to the other apostles
Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!
Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter
It’s Christ who does this
Why is the name of peter even mentioned?
Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!
Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!
First and chief apostle!
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!
Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!
Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles in the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22
Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
4 important questions:
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!
Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Can you show us in scripture where Jesus Christ or Paul or Peter or any Apostles ever taught anything about a “Pope” ruling over the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ from Rome?
Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.
Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.
Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19
This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17
A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.
Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 acts 2:42 eph 5:32
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!
Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Can you show us in scripture where Jesus Christ or Paul or Peter or any Apostles ever taught anything about a “Pope” ruling over the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ from Rome?
Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.
Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.
Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19
This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17
A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.
Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 acts 2:42 eph 5:32
Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!
Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3
How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority” excludes the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the teaching authority of Christ in his apostolic church and the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Bibles we’re Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith cometh by hearing not reading.
The church of the apostles are lead into all truth Jn 16:13 and they are commanded to teach all men! Matt 28:19 Luke 1:4 acts 1:8 acts 8:31 Acts 4:1-2 Acts 18:25 Matt 18:17 hear the church 1 Tim 3:15 church is the pillar of truth! Church of the apostles is the light of the world! Matt 5:14
The “Bible alone” could not be a Christian’s rule of faith or source of truth!
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
The word of God is not limited to scripture alone!
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Scripture challenge!
Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?
1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.
2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.
3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20
4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?
Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)
Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.
When God speaks it is His written word.
He doesn't say anything not written in Scripture.
The reason? Do you know?
Have you ever heard the voice of God? I have, Mr. Don Adams. And His words were Scripture.
THAT'S HOW we test the prophets and anyone who says they speak for God.
If it's not chapter and verse it's chatter and worse.
Really?
Explain Lk 3:2