Mungo
Member
What do you mean "church" in this context?
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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
What do you mean "church" in this context?
Number 3 seems to be a consolidation of 1 and 2.
Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is biblical and separate from being baptized in water.
It is the promise of the Father and is for all God’s children.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5
JLB
And here I thought CCR was a music group.
Mungo
Member
No it isn't
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not Biblical.
Being baptized with the Holy Spirit inot a biblical term.
It is a figure of speech - a metaphor
metaphor
n noun a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable.
It was used by JtB and Jesus to indicate some new experience, which those addressed had not had before, relating it to something they had experienced (being baptised in water).
You cannot call it being literally baptised and cannot translate it into a noun form.
In Luke 's gospel Jesus used another metaphor to indicate the same (Pentecost) experience to the apostles.
And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high. (Lk 24:49)
They were not literally going to be clothed. And translating that into a noun form - power clothes - make even less sense.
Do we ask "have you received your power clothes yet?"
We are familiar with metaphors - Jesus is a door (John 10:7) but we don't think he is literally a door with a handle and hinges.
Protestants claim that they are sola scriptura - scripture alone.
But this shows they are not.
They are scripture + personal interpretation.
Of course claims are made that their interpretation is infallible - based on 1 John 2:20-21. But that claim in itself is interpretation.
So what the apostles experienced at Pentecost (and others experienced later) was real, but not a baptism.
Its God who sends the Spirit. As was shown in this thread the Spirit came on Cornelius before they were baptized with water.
Mungo
Member
Of course it is God that sends the Spirit.
I haven't suggested otherwise.
I still don't get your point.
It is God that puts his Spirit within us at baptism as prophesied by Ezekial 36:25-27. And As Peter said in Acts 2:38)
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
As I said in an earlier post:
Regarding water baptism, yes we receive the Holy Spirit from God. What is your point?
Ok you can tell that to the Lord Jesus.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8
JLB
Yes we believe in being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.
Luke 24:49
Endued means to ”put on”; hence the word clothed.
But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. Colossians 3:14
and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, Colossians 3:10
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:27
The scriptures are something to be honored and obeyed not mocked.
JLB
Sorry
Read Rom 5:5
I’m only holding you to your own pet doctrine “faith alone” not room in the sacred five solas for love of God!
Thanks
I am in Christ because of the Father not your sola's I do not walk away from that grace.
Read the head of the body of Christ
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
More mocking in the face of truth?
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.
Luke 24:49
Endued means to ”put on”; hence the word clothed.
But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. Colossians 3:14
and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, Colossians 3:10
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:27
The scriptures are something to be honored and obeyed not mocked.
Please post the scripture that teaches us “power clothes”.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8
JLB
Not without baptism no one is a Christian
Mungo
Member
I'm following your logic.
Luke 24:49
"And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high.”
You claimed that the promise of the Father was literal in Act 1:4-5. Therefore you claimed that what followed (baptised with the Holy Spirit) was also literal.
Therefore by the same logic if the promise of the Father in Luke 24:49 is literal then what follows - clothed with power - is also literal.
Also you claimed that you can switch a verb (baptised) to a noun (baptism).
By the same logic the verb in Luke 24:49 (clothed) can be switched to a noun (clothes)
Since the clothes clothe us with power they must be power clothes.
So the prisoner on the cross is not on Paradise?
You deny Christ words then. Were you baptized as a infant? If so you better examine yourself to see if Christ is in you for that gift is received by faith. And it was "repent" and be baptized.
The test to see if you are in the "Faith" is Christ in you. How can such a one who is one with Christ and the seed of Abraham not be heirs according to the promise? God is not bound to water baptism in order to give the gift of the Spirit which He does to those who believe and obey Him. "My point"
Is this the church?
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
It doesn't matter what you think as this is Jesus's will in regard to those who the Father give to Him. Those who believe in Him.
Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
I didn't receive the Spirit when I was baptized as a infant. But later in life when I asked for that gift in prayer as one who believes in Christ Jesus my Lord. I do confess with my mouth Jesus is Lord.
If you choose to twist God’s word and mock His teachings in favor of your particular denomination’s tradition then of course is your choice.
Nevertheless, Jesus paid the price for your and I to receive power to be His witnesses, by being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8
This gift is also called the promise of the Father.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5
- for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
Just like being baptized with water, being baptized with the Holy Spirit is a very real part of the Christian faith.
I hope you receive this gift from the Lord and are endued with His power to be His witness for your family and community.
JLB