Sinless To Be Saved

[D-D-W]

how?

I explained it before. There is no biblical distinction between civil ceremonial or moral law. So according to James 2.10, if you break a ceremonial law you also have broken a moral law.

whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

[D-D-W]

What does being a jew mean in the context of this topic? I am part jewish so what does it mean for me?

Read Acts 15. Then read the revisit of that topic in chapter 21, verses 20-25. The 4 laws of Acts 15 and the exemption from the rest of the Mosaic Law were applied only to Gentiles. Jewish believers in Messiah still had to keep to the Law.

How that applies to you only you can answer.

 

[onlysaved]

I explained it before. There is no biblical distinction between civil ceremonial or moral law. So according to James 2.10, if you break a ceremonial law you also have broken a moral law.

whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

We are not under any law. We are to follow Jesus and doing that fulfills the law via grace through faith.

Paul said " if you allow yourselves to be circumcised you're obligated to keep the whole law"

Our salvation rests on our faith in Christ not our ability or inability to keep any law , even God's moral law.

Yes we are to obey, but we are not to put our faith in our obedience hut our faith is in the completed work of God in Christ.

 

[D-D-W]

We are not under any law. We are to follow Jesus and doing that fulfills the law via grace through faith.

We follow the Law of Messiah.

Paul said " if you allow yourselves to be circumcised you're obligated to keep the whole law"

Exactly. Receiving circumcision makes you a Jew.

Our salvation rests on our faith in Christ not our ability or inability to keep any law , even God's moral law.
Yes we are to obey, but we are not to put our faith in our obedience hut our faith is in the completed work of God in Christ.

Very true. Even salvation under the Mosaic covenant was not on one's ability to flawlessly follow the commands. It has ALWAYS been on the basis of faith.

 

[Free]

God will judge each person on the knowledge they have,,,not on what they didn't know.

The way of Salvation is to know God and to serve Him.

It is also to know Christ.

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Joh 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

(All ESV.)

The thing is, the default for everyone is eternity apart from God. Salvation is only found through Jesus, through believing both who he is and in his atoning work on the cross and resurrection. There is no other way to be saved, whether Jew or Gentile.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is also to know Christ.

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Joh 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

(All ESV.)

The thing is, the default for everyone is eternity apart from God. Salvation is only found through Jesus, through believing both who he is and in his atoning work on the cross and resurrection. There is no other way to be saved, whether Jew or Gentile.

So everyone on the entire earth,,,who lived before the cross and from the beginning of time...
who did not hear about Jesus, is doomed?

Unlimited atonement.
Jesus died for the sins OF THE WHOLE world.

Jesus bought back everyone so that those that desire to believe in God, can be saved.

How were the OT saints saved?
By faith.
How was Abel saved?
Noah?
Abraham?
Jonah?
etc.

Everyone is saved by faith in God and obedience to God.

I'd like to get into Acts, but first HOW do you understand

Romans 1:18-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Everyone can know about God.
No one will have an excuse...because God has revealed Himself to everyone.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are not under any law. We are to follow Jesus and doing that fulfills the law via grace through faith.

Paul said " if you allow yourselves to be circumcised you're obligated to keep the whole law"

Our salvation rests on our faith in Christ not our ability or inability to keep any law , even God's moral law.

Yes we are to obey, but we are not to put our faith in our obedience hut our faith is in the completed work of God in Christ.

Oh wow.
And here we go again.
Unbiblical teachings on these Forums.

Here's what you said:

"Our salvation rests on our faith in Christ not our ability or inability to keep any law , even God's moral law."

So, according to you:

Are we required to keep the Moral Law?

Do you think Jesus taught that it's OK to be disobedient disciples?

 

[GodsGrace]

It depends on your definition of "Christian."

But remember our Lord's words:
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

A very little god, I'd say.

I don't know that I'm willing to really debate this.
It tires me out.

This is what is necessary to get to heaven:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.

God revealed Himself to a very limited population about 3,500 to 4,000 years ago.

If some want to believe that everyone before that...
and that everyone in every other part of the world was/is lost....
then so be it.

This mans that all Jews, and every other religion, are going straight to hell.

If this is the God some believe in...
it's not something I'm willing to debate for more than a few posts.

 

[GodsGrace]

The people born of the promise go to heaven. Those who put their faith in God before Christ came and those who put their Faith in Him now.

Has nothing to do with being Jewish as evidenced by Rahab the Cannanite woman. Who put her faith in God by helping the Jewish spies.
Faith in God is what did it for OT saints and Faith in Christ now..

What if someone doesn't know about Christ?

 

[GodsGrace]

No. There is no contradiction at all. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out". (John 6:37) John 14:6 is declaring that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to Heaven. John 6:37 is declaring that the one who comes to JESUS (and becomes a born-again Christian) He will in no way cast off or cast out. They have become His Children. Romans 1:19-22 is not teaching that there are many ways to God. It is teaching that everyone in their heart KNOWS there is a God.

You need to read this verse and consider it closely: "I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die". (Gal. 2:21)

What this verse is basically saying is that if ANY OF US could make ourselves righteous before God and we could go to Heaven as a result----THEN THERE WAS NO NEED FOR CHRIST TO DIE ON THE CROSS.

But he did die on a cross for all of us---so that if we ACCEPT that sacrifice we can THROUGH HIM go to Heaven and not perish.

No Fish.
YOU please read the two verses again.

One states that Father gives to Jesus.
And one states that Jesus gives to God.

That is a clear contradiction unless you can explain it.

John 6:37
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly * not cast out.
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

[GodsGrace]

No. There is no contradiction at all. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out". (John 6:37) John 14:6 is declaring that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to Heaven. John 6:37 is declaring that the one who comes to JESUS (and becomes a born-again Christian) He will in no way cast off or cast out. They have become His Children. Romans 1:19-22 is not teaching that there are many ways to God. It is teaching that everyone in their heart KNOWS there is a God.

You need to read this verse and consider it closely: "I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die". (Gal. 2:21)

What this verse is basically saying is that if ANY OF US could make ourselves righteous before God and we could go to Heaven as a result----THEN THERE WAS NO NEED FOR CHRIST TO DIE ON THE CROSS.

But he did die on a cross for all of us---so that if we ACCEPT that sacrifice we can THROUGH HIM go to Heaven and not perish.

PS
There was still a need for Jesus to die on the cross.
Even IF we were able to keep the Law 100%.

What do you think it was??

 

[GodsGrace]

Some of us are.

If you are Jewish I agree. Or if you have attached yourself to the Jewish community.

Jewish brains? Paul said God entrusted the Scriptures to the Jews. Romans 3.

I was taught that too. But when I took a long hard look at that James passage, I had to throw it out.

Interestingly, the James passage speaks of the Moral Law.

James 2:8-12
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

What is the Law of Liberty?
Not sure I really understand it....
I'd like your opinion.

 

[onlysaved]

What if someone doesn't know about Christ?

I don't know that's up to God not me

 

[Fish153]

PS
There was still a need for Jesus to die on the cross.
Even IF we were able to keep the Law 100%.

What do you think it was??

So, you are going to question God's Word? "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (Gal. 2:21) No---we were NOT ABLE to keep the law 100%. That's the whole point. Jesus died because NONE OF US is righteous enough to get to Heaven on our own. If one needs Jesus to enter Heaven----how can those following other faiths then enter? No--they CANNOT. Jesus is the "way, the truth and the Life" and "No one comes to the Father but by Me" (John 14:6).

 

[Fish153]

No Fish.
YOU please read the two verses again.

One states that Father gives to Jesus.
And one states that Jesus gives to God.

That is a clear contradiction unless you can explain it.

John 6:37
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly * not cast out.
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

No---once again, no contradiction at all. "No one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6). And it is the Father who GIVES this ability to receive Jesus so that WE DO COME to the Father (John 6:37). And those given this ability to come to Jesus "HE WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT". But the ONLY PERSON one can go through is Jesus Christ. If you are following another religion you are listening to "another voice"-and Jesus' sheep do not heed the voice of strangers. They only heed His voice. He is the only one who can save us!!

 

[onlysaved]

Oh wow.
And here we go again.
Unbiblical teachings on these Forums.

Here's what you said:

"Our salvation rests on our faith in Christ not our ability or inability to keep any law , even God's moral law."

So, according to you:

Are we required to keep the Moral Law?

Do you think Jesus taught that it's OK to be disobedient disciples?

You're putting words into my mouth...

Yes we are to live as Jesus lived. However we fail and we fail more wretchedly than we think. Our salvation rests on the work God has done. Not the works we do.. that's the Gospel.

Thinking that how godly we live our lives affects our salvation shows two things.

1. It shows a complete lack of understanding of why we need a savior.

2. It shows a lack of understanding of what sin is.

Do you put your trust in Christ?
Or do you put your faith in your good works and obedience? You cannot do both!
One choice leads to salvation then other to Hell.

Why do i put no faith at all in anything that I do?
" because my heart is desperately wicked"

Because. "I find another law at work in my life waging war against the Spirit, for the good i want to do i do not do but the evil i do not want to do i keep doing. Oh what a wretched man I am, who will save me from this body of death?"

Sin is an ancient archery term, it means anything but a perfect bullseye.

My best attempts i barely hit the target at all. If I have to rely on a bullseye every time? Or even once in a while? I'm toast.

The gospel is God did for me that which i could not do for myself. If I could do it on my own then Christ died for nothing.

 

[D-D-W]

PS
There was still a need for Jesus to die on the cross.
Even IF we were able to keep the Law 100%.

What do you think it was??

My opinion? To establish the new covenant.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

I think it is not hard to understand guys we are saved through faith and not by following the law and yes while we are to be obedient we cannot and never could fully obey the law that is why Jesus came to fulfil it for us

is there any other way to salvation except through faith in Jesus and what he did on the cross? can obeying any law satisfy God?