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The Two Natures That Co-Exist In A Spirit-Filled Christian

FYI, born-again Christians are NOT Spirit-filled.
Only those baptized with the Holy Spirit are!
Believers are enwelled with the Holy Spirit at the moment of accepting Jesus as the Christ.

1 Corth. 12:13 declares.........
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”
 
FYI, born-again Christians are NOT Spirit-filled.
Only those baptized with the Holy Spirit are!
You really don't think that those reborn of God's seed have His Spirit in them ?
As the commands to turn from sin, and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, will result in receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, (Acts 2:38), and in rebirth, (Rom 6:4), I find it impossible to separate the four events.
 
I am very sorry. I did not intend to confuse anyone, however as you can see, if and when we believe that being born again makes us "sinless", we have a real problem and chaos starts. I say that because "You" know in your heart that you sin. I know that I sin and I have been saved for 65 years. So what do we do? we study and do the work to answer the question Biblically and not denominationally.

So having said that, we need to understand that the new man is the newly regenerated spiritual nature of the born-again Christian. It is the inner self made alive in Jesus Christ and, after that, being renewed by the power of the Holy Spirit day by day. Go to and read (2 Corin. 4:16; Ro. 7:22; Ep. 3:16).

In Colossians 3:5–11, the apostle Paul lists several vices believers are to “put off,” as if taking off items of clothing: verse 5......
“sexual immorality,
impurity,
lust,
evil desires and
greed,
idolatry” (verse 5), and then in verse 8
“anger,
rage,
malice,
slander, and
filthy language” (verse 8).

These sins belong to our old “earthly nature” -old man - Sin nature. (verse 5).

Finally, Paul says, “Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all” (verses 9–11,).

Now, I know that we all desire, and want to believe that after we have been saved we have not committed any of the things listed above. Now add to that........
Adultery
Pornography
Divorce.

Now practically speaking i think every one will say.....Yep, I did that or that at sometime.
The good news if that because you believe in Christ you were forgiven even before you repented!
Thank you for the explanation. As before, I pretty much agree with everything you said (except the progressive sanctification piece). I agree completely with what you said about the identity of the new man being the "newly regenerated spiritual nature of the born-again Christian". My POV about the new man having true righteousness and holiness may be slightly different than yours, but certainly I do not say or imply that I do not sin. On the contrary, I take personal responsibility for my sins and the sinfulness of my flesh. Those things are a part of who I am in Adam (the physical me), but I receive and rely heavily on the forgiveness for those things that I have in Christ. But I also see something different in the new man/the spiritual me/ who I am in Christ. I see love for God, love for the things of God, love for the people of God, and love for those who are outside. Though I sense that God's Spirit refreshes the spiritual me on a daily basis, I never see the spiritual me changing sides to be in opposition to God or the things of God. It seems like most of these things are similar to what you believe (except the progressive sanctification part).

And you have 17 years on me in terms of salvation. I was saved as a teenager in 1977. Saved in 1960?
 
Thank you for the explanation. As before, I pretty much agree with everything you said (except the progressive sanctification piece). I agree completely with what you said about the identity of the new man being the "newly regenerated spiritual nature of the born-again Christian". My POV about the new man having true righteousness and holiness may be slightly different than yours, but certainly I do not say or imply that I do not sin. On the contrary, I take personal responsibility for my sins and the sinfulness of my flesh. Those things are a part of who I am in Adam (the physical me), but I receive and rely heavily on the forgiveness for those things that I have in Christ. But I also see something different in the new man/the spiritual me/ who I am in Christ. I see love for God, love for the things of God, love for the people of God, and love for those who are outside. Though I sense that God's Spirit refreshes the spiritual me on a daily basis, I never see the spiritual me changing sides to be in opposition to God or the things of God. It seems like most of these things are similar to what you believe (except the progressive sanctification part).

And you have 17 years on me in terms of salvation. I was saved as a teenager in 1977. Saved in 1960?
Thank you for the post. You my friend are on the right Bible track.

As for not agreeing with me on "progressive sanctification", do not let that bother you.
It is not an essential to salvation in any way.

I would only ask you to remember that Justification is a one-time work of God, resulting in a declaration of “not guilty” before Him because of the work of Christ on the cross.
Sanctification is a process, beginning with justification and continuing throughout life.
Justification is the starting point of the line that represents one’s Christian life; sanctification is the line itself and Glorification is the result either at death or the Rapture.

Allow me to ask you a question. Think back to when you were saved.
Now, did you know at that time about the "kenosis" of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Did you understand "Predestination"?
Did you understand why God loved you so much that He died for YOU?
Did you understand why Jesus had to be incarnated by a "virgin".
Did you know how many books are in the Bible?

You see, what I am saying is that when I got saved, I did so because the preacher said that if I did not accept Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I would go to hell and hell was hot! I did not want to go there and if more people were totally honest they would say the very same thing.
When I accepted Christ in an old tent revival, that night when I said YES to Jesus, I was declared NOT GUILTY by God...I was Justified.

Now as I grew and aged and married, and I read the Bible, I began to grow in knowledge and I learned about all those things I asked you. That my dear friend is the process of Sanctification.
You see, we do not know anything about theology, or the Bible when we accept Christ. ALL we know is that we got a get out of hell card.

Then as we grow, and learn we keep passing "GO" and collecting our $200 and pretty soon we have learned about God, Jesus and the things of what it means to say we are Saved.

I was saved in a tent revival meeting held by the late great evangelist, E. J. Daniels.
 
I really have to say that every one of the people who post and say they never sin, or that they are now free from sin, are walking around guilty of one of the greatest sins of all: Pride. None of us as Christians is ever completely free from sin. If that were true there would be some of us who are never tempted. Their old nature is gone (destroyed) correct? Then all they have now is the perfect Spirit nature. So, they must be free from temptation. The Bible never teaches anyone that they are free from temptation. "There hath no temptation taken you but that which IS COMMON TO MAN..." (1 Cor. 10:13)

"For in many things we offend all". (James 3:2)

I like what the person said above "So, you say you don't sin huh? Let me talk to your wife..." LOL. You say you aren't married. So, let us talk to your best friend or family members, and see if they think you never sin. Ha ha. I John 1 clearly tells us that if we think we have no sin we are lying to ourselves, and others. And the only way you can keep doing that is through great PRIDE.
 
Thank you for the post. You my friend are on the right Bible track.

As for not agreeing with me on "progressive sanctification", do not let that bother you.
It is not an essential to salvation in any way.

I would only ask you to remember that Justification is a one-time work of God, resulting in a declaration of “not guilty” before Him because of the work of Christ on the cross.
Sanctification is a process, beginning with justification and continuing throughout life.
Justification is the starting point of the line that represents one’s Christian life; sanctification is the line itself and Glorification is the result either at death or the Rapture.

Allow me to ask you a question. Think back to when you were saved.
Now, did you know at that time about the "kenosis" of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Did you understand "Predestination"?
Did you understand why God loved you so much that He died for YOU?
Did you understand why Jesus had to be incarnated by a "virgin".
Did you know how many books are in the Bible?

You see, what I am saying is that when I got saved, I did so because the preacher said that if I did not accept Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I would go to hell and hell was hot! I did not want to go there and if more people were totally honest they would say the very same thing.
When I accepted Christ in an old tent revival, that night when I said YES to Jesus, I was declared NOT GUILTY by God...I was Justified.

Now as I grew and aged and married, and I read the Bible, I began to grow in knowledge and I learned about all those things I asked you. That my dear friend is the process of Sanctification.
You see, we do not know anything about theology, or the Bible when we accept Christ. ALL we know is that we got a get out of hell card.

Then as we grow, and learn we keep passing "GO" and collecting our $200 and pretty soon we have learned about God, Jesus and the things of what it means to say we are Saved.

I was saved in a tent revival meeting held by the late great evangelist, E. J. Daniels.
My grandfather was a contemporary of EJ Daniels and was also a Southern Baptist minister. So that's cool.

Similar to your experience, my preacher's sermons on hell scared me to death as a kid. I remember one night tossing and turning in my bed repeating out loud something like, "I don't want to go to hell". But I wasn't saved until about a decade later when I first trusted Christ as my Savior and received Him into my heart. What I remember most about those days is that the weight of my sins was lifted.

You are right that we all start out knowing virtually nothing about Christianity. But then we learn, and grow, and mature concerning spiritual things. You call it sanctification; I call it growing up spiritually. My nephew is certain that what I call spiritual growth is sanctification, so that idea isn't brand new to me. Maybe some day we can discuss the Bible verses that describe growing spiritually as sanctification.
 
John 8:31-36 says that we will no longer be SLAVES to sin and Satan when we have the new birth

What?

John 8:31-36 certainly does not say that.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32

IF….

If you abide, remain in my teaching, my doctrine, you are My disciples indeed.

This same John said it again in 2 John.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9
 
My grandfather was a contemporary of EJ Daniels and was also a Southern Baptist minister. So that's cool.

Similar to your experience, my preacher's sermons on hell scared me to death as a kid. I remember one night tossing and turning in my bed repeating out loud something like, "I don't want to go to hell". But I wasn't saved until about a decade later when I first trusted Christ as my Savior and received Him into my heart. What I remember most about those days is that the weight of my sins was lifted.

You are right that we all start out knowing virtually nothing about Christianity. But then we learn, and grow, and mature concerning spiritual things. You call it sanctification; I call it growing up spiritually. My nephew is certain that what I call spiritual growth is sanctification, so that idea isn't brand new to me. Maybe some day we can discuss the Bible verses that describe growing spiritually as sanctification.
Absolutely agreeable. Here are 3 off the top of my head......
Philippians 4:8: "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you."
Colossians 3:21: "Sanctification is God's will for our lives and soul."
Romans 6:6: "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me."

I need to explain to you that there are Two elements of santification.
1. Positional
2. Practical.

You see, at the moment of salvation, we are Justified and set apart positionally; that is, we are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin which is death/hell. Our "position" is here on the earth but positionally, we are already in heaven based on the fact that by faith we are IN Christ and Christ is in heaven.

Then begins progressive sanctification, which is the process whereby we are saved from the practice and power of sin. We are not sinless because we still live in a body that is sinfull but we can choose to not be dominated by sin. And after this physical life is over, we will be sanctified finally; that is, we will be saved from the presence of sin which is referred to as Glorification.
 
I really have to say that every one of the people who post and say they never sin, or that they are now free from sin, are walking around guilty of one of the greatest sins of all: Pride. None of us as Christians is ever completely free from sin. If that were true there would be some of us who are never tempted. Their old nature is gone (destroyed) correct? Then all they have now is the perfect Spirit nature. So, they must be free from temptation. The Bible never teaches anyone that they are free from temptation. "There hath no temptation taken you but that which IS COMMON TO MAN..." (1 Cor. 10:13)

"For in many things we offend all". (James 3:2)

I like what the person said above "So, you say you don't sin huh? Let me talk to your wife..." LOL. You say you aren't married. So, let us talk to your best friend or family members, and see if they think you never sin. Ha ha. I John 1 clearly tells us that if we think we have no sin we are lying to ourselves, and others. And the only way you can keep doing that is through great PRIDE.
You are right.
 
I really have to say that every one of the people who post and say they never sin, or that they are now free from sin, are walking around guilty of one of the greatest sins of all: Pride.
Proud of what God's graceful gifts of repentance from sin, and what baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and what rebirth from God's seed after the destruction of the old me, have accomplished.
That being, a new creature with the nature if Him who begot me.
None of us as Christians is ever completely free from sin.
Might as well be a Jew then.
If that were true there would be some of us who are never tempted.
Jesus was tempted.
Does that mean He can't say He doesn't commit sin ?
Their old nature is gone (destroyed) correct?
Yep, thanks be to God !
Then all they have now is the perfect Spirit nature.
It is written..."Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)
So, you are correct !
So, they must be free from temptation.
Why ?
Do you really think the devil ever stops trying to lure converts back into darkness ?
The Bible never teaches anyone that they are free from temptation. "There hath no temptation taken you but that which IS COMMON TO MAN..." (1 Cor. 10:13)
Temptations don't stop at conversion.
"For in many things we offend all". (James 3:2)
Written by James, to stigmatize those who he later accuses of of teaching conflicting doctrines...sweet and fresh water dispensers, so to speak. (James 3:11-12)
Their wisdom did not descend from above, but was sensual, earthy, devilish.
They were the offenders of verse 3 !
I like what the person said above "So, you say you don't sin huh? Let me talk to your wife..." LOL. You say you aren't married. So, let us talk to your best friend or family members, and see if they think you never sin. Ha ha. I John 1 clearly tells us that if we think we have no sin we are lying to ourselves, and others. And the only way you can keep doing that is through great PRIDE.
It is those who walk in darkness, (which Pro 4:19 says is the "way of the wicked"), who cannot say they have no sin.
In fact, 1 John 1:6 says they also cannot say they have fellowship with God, and 1 John 2:3 says they do not even know God !
The cure for all of that, is to walk in the light, that 1 John 1:5 says is God !
As there is no sin in God, neither can there be sin in those walking in Him.

Confess your sins. (1 John 1:9)
Get washed of them by the blood of Christ. (1 John 1:7, Acts 2:38)
Then you can walk with us, in God, and free from sin. (1 John 1:7)
 
Absolutely agreeable. Here are 3 off the top of my head......
Philippians 4:8: "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you."
Colossians 3:21: "Sanctification is God's will for our lives and soul."
Romans 6:6: "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me."
Hmmm, those verse references don't go with the quotes.

I'm interested in locating Bible verses that tell us what exactly is meant by the word, "sanctification". This could be by defining it or by using the word in the context of what it means. Particularly, I am interested in seeing the word used in the context of learning, growing, and maturing spiritually. Of the three verses you referenced above, only the middle one contains the word. The context is as follows:

3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. (1 Th 4:3–8)​

Here, "sanctification" is not about learning, growing, or maturing spiritually. It is about the actions we must take to fulfill our calling to live godly lives (vs 7): We should abstain from sexual immorality (vs 3), we should take control over our own bodies (vs 4), we should not indulge the lusts of the flesh (vs 5), and we should not take avantage or cheat other people in this regard (vs 6).
I need to explain to you that there are Two elements of santification.
1. Positional
2. Practical.

You see, at the moment of salvation, we are Justified and set apart positionally; that is, we are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin which is death/hell. Our "position" is here on the earth but positionally, we are already in heaven based on the fact that by faith we are IN Christ and Christ is in heaven.

Then begins progressive sanctification, which is the process whereby we are saved from the practice and power of sin. We are not sinless because we still live in a body that is sinfull but we can choose to not be dominated by sin. And after this physical life is over, we will be sanctified finally; that is, we will be saved from the presence of sin which is referred to as Glorification.
You are not telling me things I don't already know. I learned these things in the 1980's at FBC Jacksonville then more technically at MABTS in Memphis. What I am alleging is that some of this stuff (in particular the notion that God's sanctification of us is progressive) is not Scriptural. However, if you were to make element 1 God's sanctification of us, and element 2 self-sanctification (i.e., learning to walk in the Spirit to deny the lusts of the flesh as 1 Th 4:3–8 says) then we would be on the same page.
 
Just think my friend.....when you say "God bless" when some sneezes, you just committed a sin.
Apparently, therere is a lot of misunderstanding about sin. Sin is a transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). What law is transgressed when a person says "God bless"?
When someone asks you how you are feeling and you do not feel well, & say, I am OK, you sinned.
OK means "satisfactory" or "not so bad". If you are in severe pain, saying OK may be percieved as lying (sin). If you have a mild cold, saying OK is not necesserily lying, depending on what you want to convey. For example, if you answer OK to your boss, you may mean that you continue working in your condition: this is a true statement.
When you put down a questionable deduction on your income tax's, you sinned.
What if you are not aware that this deduction is wrong? In this case you didn't transgress the Law of God within you, your conscience (Romans 2:14,15).
When you see a really pretty woman and think, wow...she is beautiful, you just sinned.
I disagree. Yahshua the Messiah said, whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Matthew 5:28). There is a big difference between thinking about a woman "she is beautiful" and lusting after her. Do you think that everyone looking at the painting of Mona Lisa, and thinking that she is beautiful, sins?
 
Apparently, therere is a lot of misunderstanding about sin. Sin is a transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). What law is transgressed when a person says "God bless"?

OK means "satisfactory" or "not so bad". If you are in severe pain, saying OK may be percieved as lying (sin). If you have a mild cold, saying OK is not necesserily lying, depending on what you want to convey. For example, if you answer OK to your boss, you may mean that you continue working in your condition: this is a true statement.

What if you are not aware that this deduction is wrong? In this case you didn't transgress the Law of God within you, your conscience (Romans 2:14,15).

I disagree. Yahshua the Messiah said, whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Matthew 5:28). There is a big difference between thinking about a woman "she is beautiful" and lusting after her. Do you think that everyone looking at the painting of Mona Lisa, and thinking that she is beautiful, sins?
I was pointing out the contrast over "I am sinless" when we do and say things that are questionable.
Any time we use God's name in something that is not praise, it "may be" that you used His name in vain.

If you are trying to tell the world that "you" have never looked upon a woman with lust so as to keep you sinless......You will have to do better than this because I do not believe you.
 
Hmmm, those verse references don't go with the quotes.

I'm interested in locating Bible verses that tell us what exactly is meant by the word, "sanctification". This could be by defining it or by using the word in the context of what it means. Particularly, I am interested in seeing the word used in the context of learning, growing, and maturing spiritually. Of the three verses you referenced above, only the middle one contains the word. The context is as follows:

3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. (1 Th 4:3–8)​

Here, "sanctification" is not about learning, growing, or maturing spiritually. It is about the actions we must take to fulfill our calling to live godly lives (vs 7): We should abstain from sexual immorality (vs 3), we should take control over our own bodies (vs 4), we should not indulge the lusts of the flesh (vs 5), and we should not take avantage or cheat other people in this regard (vs 6).

You are not telling me things I don't already know. I learned these things in the 1980's at FBC Jacksonville then more technically at MABTS in Memphis. What I am alleging is that some of this stuff (in particular the notion that God's sanctification of us is progressive) is not Scriptural. However, if you were to make element 1 God's sanctification of us, and element 2 self-sanctification (i.e., learning to walk in the Spirit to deny the lusts of the flesh as 1 Th 4:3–8 says) then we would be on the same page.
My friend, the specific, literal word does not have to be in the Bible to make it acceptable as a doctrine.

There is a thing in theology called "Implied Truth".

That is exactly what is found in the Scriptures I posted for you.

Sanctification is God’s will for us 1 Thess 4:3. The word sanctification is related to the word saint; both words have to do with holiness. To “sanctify” something is to set it apart for special use; to “sanctify” a person is to make him holy.

In 1 Thes 4. where we read about the things that we are to put off all takes place in the Christians life so that those things will not keep him from serving God.

I have no idea what you were taught at FBC, but in Christian theology, sanctification is a state of separation unto God; all believers enter into this state when they are born of God: ...1 Corth. 1:30...“You are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption”.

As I stated, while we are positionally holy (“set free from every sin” by the blood of Christ, we know that we still sin according to 1 John 1:10.

That’s why the Bible also refers to sanctification as a practical experience of our separation unto God.

“Progressive” or “experiential” sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life as we read the Word and work to obey. It is the same as growing in the Lord or spiritual maturity.

God started the work of making us like Christ, when He convicted us of our sin and He is continuing it. That kind of activity, learning and growing is and can only be described as Progressive.
That type of sanctification is to be pursued by the believer earnestly when we pursue that goal it is Progressive.

Progressive sanctification is effected by the application of the Word of God. Progressive sanctification has in view the setting apart of believers for the purpose for which they are sent into the world:

John 17:18-19
“As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified”.

The fact that Jesus set Himself apart for God’s purpose is both the basis and the condition of our being set apart. We are sanctified and sent because Jesus was. Our Lord’s sanctification is the pattern of and power for our own. The sending and the sanctifying are inseparable. On this account we are called “saints” (hagioi in the Greek), or “sanctified ones.” Prior to salvation, our behavior bore witness to our standing in the world in separation from God, but now our behavior should bear witness to our standing before God in separation from the world. Little by little, every day, “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14, ESV) are becoming more like Christ.

I will sum this all up as best I can by saying that In your past, God granted you justification, a once-for-all, positional holiness in Christ when He called you and you accepted HIs call to be saved.

Then in your present, God guides you to maturity, growing you in grace and knowledge in a practical, progressive holiness.

In the future, God will glorify you in a permanent, eternal and ultimate position of holiness.

These three phases of sanctification separate the believer from the ......
1. penalty of sin (justification),
2. the power of sin (maturity/sanctification), and the
3. the presence of sin (glorification).
 
My grandfather was a contemporary of EJ Daniels and was also a Southern Baptist minister. So that's cool.

Similar to your experience, my preacher's sermons on hell scared me to death as a kid. I remember one night tossing and turning in my bed repeating out loud something like, "I don't want to go to hell". But I wasn't saved until about a decade later when I first trusted Christ as my Savior and received Him into my heart. What I remember most about those days is that the weight of my sins was lifted.

You are right that we all start out knowing virtually nothing about Christianity. But then we learn, and grow, and mature concerning spiritual things. You call it sanctification; I call it growing up spiritually. My nephew is certain that what I call spiritual growth is sanctification, so that idea isn't brand new to me. Maybe some day we can discuss the Bible verses that describe growing spiritually as sanctification.
It's very interesting--I was just thinking about this the other night. When you are born into this world physically you know nothing. You didn't "choose" to be born---it happened to you. You just grew up from there. I think of my spiritual rebirth and it's very similar. No one told me "you have to say this 'sinner's prayer' and accept Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior".

My neighbor handed me a Gospel of John and I read it in my bedroom all alone. I knew NOTHING about the Gospel, and almost nothing about God. When I came to Chapter 10 Jesus said "I call my sheep by name, and lead them out". I truly believe that right when I read that Jesus called me by name. I heard no verbal "voice"---I just knew I needed to respond to something. I asked Jesus "Can I be one of your sheep"? And everything changed. I DIDN'T KNOW I had been "born-again". I really didn't. I hadn't CHOSEN to be born-again. God had brought me to a place through his merciful love where I began to cry as a new born baby would physically--gasping for oxygen. Spiritually I NEEDED God to survive and I cried to him with all of my heart. I believe at this point I was "regenerated". But it took me years to really understand what had happened to me. I had become a NEW CREATION by God's will (John 1:13). I KNOW without a doubt now that I was born-again that day in my bedroom. But at that point I was as unknowledgeable as a new physically born baby is!

So, it always amazes me when people say that salvation and rebirth happen after certain "steps" are taken: You must repent, be baptized, etc.---THEN you are born again. I say "no". You are born-again and become a new creation---this LEADS YOU to repent, and then be baptized (as you grow in knowledge and understanding). Repentance and Baptism are a RESULT of being regenerated. You no longer desire to do the things you did before. You do not "clean yourself up" before you come to Jesus. You "come as you are" and HE cleans you up.

So, I see sanctification as being "growing up into" what you ALREADY HAVE. When Paul says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" he means "grow into what you already possess"---let the Lord sanctify you.
 
My friend, the specific, literal word does not have to be in the Bible to make it acceptable as a doctrine.

There is a thing in theology called "Implied Truth".

That is exactly what is found in the Scriptures I posted for you.

Sanctification is God’s will for us 1 Thess 4:3. The word sanctification is related to the word saint; both words have to do with holiness. To “sanctify” something is to set it apart for special use; to “sanctify” a person is to make him holy.

In 1 Thes 4. where we read about the things that we are to put off all takes place in the Christians life so that those things will not keep him from serving God.

I have no idea what you were taught at FBC, but in Christian theology, sanctification is a state of separation unto God; all believers enter into this state when they are born of God: ...1 Corth. 1:30...“You are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption”.

As I stated, while we are positionally holy (“set free from every sin” by the blood of Christ, we know that we still sin according to 1 John 1:10.
It's not simply positional holiness, but actual holiness in the spiritual being He created when He came to live in our hearts. The Bible says clearly that "the new man" "was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). Good theology must at least accomodate this truth. The righteousness and holiness of the new man is "true" righteousness and holiness and it does not improve over time. It has been completed and is not progressive, as Hebrews 10:14 says, "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified".
That’s why the Bible also refers to sanctification as a practical experience of our separation unto God.

“Progressive” or “experiential” sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life as we read the Word and work to obey. It is the same as growing in the Lord or spiritual maturity.
Self-sanctification (2 Tim. 2:21; 1 Peter 3:15; Rom. 6:11, 13) is God’s calling for us to consider and act according to the truth that God Himself has sanctified us. We should consider ourselves set apart, culled us out, cleansed of our sins by the blood of Jesus, made one with Him by new life in Christ, and called into full-time service to Him. And we should present ourselves to God as such every day.

Our acceptance of the fact that we have true righteousness and holiness in Christ (Rom. 6:11), and our daily choice to present ourselves to God as people who are alive from the dead and as instruments to be used by Him for His glory (Rom. 6:13) has nothing to do with progressively putting away our sins. It only has to do with us making an identical choice every day to separate ourselves to God and to walk with Him in the newness of life (Rom. 6:4).

But if we choose to walk with God every day in the newness of life, some things will change. Our trust in God will increase (2 Cor. 10:15). Our knowledge of God will grow (Col. 1:10). Our discernment of good and evil will sharpen (Heb. 5:14). Our spirits will grow stronger (Eph. 3:16). Our love for one another will abound (1 Thess. 3:12). The fruits of our righteousness will multiply (2 Cor. 9:10). Our brethren with whom we interact will be strengthened (Acts 18:23). And our numbers will increase (Acts 16:5).

These things are not evidence of God cleaning us up over time or of us becoming more and more like Jesus over time. They are the fruits of walking in the Spirit. Their existence proves that God has given us new lives in Christ Jesus, that we possess everything we need for life and godliness, and that fruitful Christian lives happen only when we trust God and walk with Him—as He leads us, guides us, and directs us from the depths of our own hearts (Gal. 5:16–26).

If this is what you mean by progressive/experiential/practical sanctification then we are on the same page doctrinally even though we have different names for it.
God started the work of making us like Christ, when He convicted us of our sin and He is continuing it. That kind of activity, learning and growing is and can only be described as Progressive.
That type of sanctification is to be pursued by the believer earnestly when we pursue that goal it is Progressive.

Progressive sanctification is effected by the application of the Word of God. Progressive sanctification has in view the setting apart of believers for the purpose for which they are sent into the world:

John 17:18-19
“As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified”.

The fact that Jesus set Himself apart for God’s purpose is both the basis and the condition of our being set apart. We are sanctified and sent because Jesus was. Our Lord’s sanctification is the pattern of and power for our own. The sending and the sanctifying are inseparable. On this account we are called “saints” (hagioi in the Greek), or “sanctified ones.” Prior to salvation, our behavior bore witness to our standing in the world in separation from God, but now our behavior should bear witness to our standing before God in separation from the world. Little by little, every day, “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14, ESV) are becoming more like Christ.

I will sum this all up as best I can by saying that In your past, God granted you justification, a once-for-all, positional holiness in Christ when He called you and you accepted HIs call to be saved.

Then in your present, God guides you to maturity, growing you in grace and knowledge in a practical, progressive holiness.

In the future, God will glorify you in a permanent, eternal and ultimate position of holiness.

These three phases of sanctification separate the believer from the ......
1. penalty of sin (justification),
2. the power of sin (maturity/sanctification), and the
3. the presence of sin (glorification).
 
It's not simply positional holiness, but actual holiness in the spiritual being He created when He came to live in our hearts. The Bible says clearly that "the new man" "was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). Good theology must at least accomodate this truth. The righteousness and holiness of the new man is "true" righteousness and holiness and it does not improve over time. It has been completed and is not progressive, as Hebrews 10:14 says, "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified".

Self-sanctification (2 Tim. 2:21; 1 Peter 3:15; Rom. 6:11, 13) is God’s calling for us to consider and act according to the truth that God Himself has sanctified us. We should consider ourselves set apart, culled us out, cleansed of our sins by the blood of Jesus, made one with Him by new life in Christ, and called into full-time service to Him. And we should present ourselves to God as such every day.

Our acceptance of the fact that we have true righteousness and holiness in Christ (Rom. 6:11), and our daily choice to present ourselves to God as people who are alive from the dead and as instruments to be used by Him for His glory (Rom. 6:13) has nothing to do with progressively putting away our sins. It only has to do with us making an identical choice every day to separate ourselves to God and to walk with Him in the newness of life (Rom. 6:4).

But if we choose to walk with God every day in the newness of life, some things will change. Our trust in God will increase (2 Cor. 10:15). Our knowledge of God will grow (Col. 1:10). Our discernment of good and evil will sharpen (Heb. 5:14). Our spirits will grow stronger (Eph. 3:16). Our love for one another will abound (1 Thess. 3:12). The fruits of our righteousness will multiply (2 Cor. 9:10). Our brethren with whom we interact will be strengthened (Acts 18:23). And our numbers will increase (Acts 16:5).

These things are not evidence of God cleaning us up over time or of us becoming more and more like Jesus over time. They are the fruits of walking in the Spirit. Their existence proves that God has given us new lives in Christ Jesus, that we possess everything we need for life and godliness, and that fruitful Christian lives happen only when we trust God and walk with Him—as He leads us, guides us, and directs us from the depths of our own hearts (Gal. 5:16–26).

If this is what you mean by progressive/experiential/practical sanctification then we are on the same page doctrinally even though we have different names for it.
I have no earthly idea what "self sanctification" is.

What I am saying and have said is that Sanctification is a three-stage process –
1. past,
2. present, and
3. future.

The first stage occurs at the beginning of our Christian lives. It is an initial moral change, a break from the power and love of sin. It is the point at which believers can count themselves “dead to sin but alive to God”. Once sanctification has begun, we are no longer under sin’s dominion. There is a reorientation of desires, and we develop a love of righteousness. Paul calls it “slavery to righteousness” in Rom. 6:17-18.


The second stage of sanctification requires a lifetime to complete.
As we grow in grace, we are gradually – but steadily – changing to be more like Jesus. This occurs in a process of daily spiritual renewal. The apostle Paul himself was being sanctified even as he ministered to others. Paul claimed that he had not reached perfection, but that he “pressed on” to attain everything Christ desired for him in Philp. 3:12.

The third and final stage of sanctification occurs in the future. When believers die, their spirits go to be with Christ. Since nothing unclean can enter heaven, we must be made perfect at that point. The sanctification of the whole person—body, soul, and spirit—will finally be complete when the Lord Jesus returns and we receive glorified bodies.

If that is your position then Yes, we are on the same page.
 
I have no earthly idea what "self sanctification" is.

What I am saying and have said is that Sanctification is a three-stage process –
1. past,
2. present, and
3. future.

The first stage occurs at the beginning of our Christian lives. It is an initial moral change, a break from the power and love of sin. It is the point at which believers can count themselves “dead to sin but alive to God”. Once sanctification has begun, we are no longer under sin’s dominion. There is a reorientation of desires, and we develop a love of righteousness. Paul calls it “slavery to righteousness” in Rom. 6:17-18.


The second stage of sanctification requires a lifetime to complete.
As we grow in grace, we are gradually – but steadily – changing to be more like Jesus. This occurs in a process of daily spiritual renewal. The apostle Paul himself was being sanctified even as he ministered to others. Paul claimed that he had not reached perfection, but that he “pressed on” to attain everything Christ desired for him in Philp. 3:12.

The third and final stage of sanctification occurs in the future. When believers die, their spirits go to be with Christ. Since nothing unclean can enter heaven, we must be made perfect at that point. The sanctification of the whole person—body, soul, and spirit—will finally be complete when the Lord Jesus returns and we receive glorified bodies.

If that is your position then Yes, we are on the same page.
Rodger---

Thanks---I agree with what you are saying. "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily". (1 Cor. 15:31). Paul new and taught that sanctification was a daily process "from glory to glory".

There is the first step of sanctification which you mention:

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit, UNTO obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied". (1 Peter 1:2).

We are initially sanctified by the Spirit which CAUSES us to obey and repent. As the verse directly above says we are "sanctified UNTO obedience". Then for the rest of our Christian lives we are "working out our salvation"--meaning we are CHANGING DAILY into the people God created us to be. We POSSESS salvation--just as an acorn is an OAK TREE once it grows---we too are sanctified UNTO obedience. Then, we die daily and "grow into" what we are in Christ. It is not "self-sanctification"---it is a continuation of the work God started in us:

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath BEGUN a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). We are saved, but we are daily being sanctified to be more and more like Jesus Christ---and GOD is doing the work, not US.
 
I have no earthly idea what "self sanctification" is.

What I am saying and have said is that Sanctification is a three-stage process –
1. past,
2. present, and
3. future.

The first stage occurs at the beginning of our Christian lives. It is an initial moral change, a break from the power and love of sin. It is the point at which believers can count themselves “dead to sin but alive to God”. Once sanctification has begun, we are no longer under sin’s dominion. There is a reorientation of desires, and we develop a love of righteousness. Paul calls it “slavery to righteousness” in Rom. 6:17-18.


The second stage of sanctification requires a lifetime to complete.
As we grow in grace, we are gradually – but steadily – changing to be more like Jesus. This occurs in a process of daily spiritual renewal. The apostle Paul himself was being sanctified even as he ministered to others. Paul claimed that he had not reached perfection, but that he “pressed on” to attain everything Christ desired for him in Philp. 3:12.

The third and final stage of sanctification occurs in the future. When believers die, their spirits go to be with Christ. Since nothing unclean can enter heaven, we must be made perfect at that point. The sanctification of the whole person—body, soul, and spirit—will finally be complete when the Lord Jesus returns and we receive glorified bodies.

If that is your position then Yes, we are on the same page.
I am trying to help you understand it. Jesus sanctified Himself. You quoted that verse. What does that mean? He certainly didn't make Himself holy since there was never a time that He wasn't holy. And it didn't relate to Him being saved. And it wasn't progressive. It therefore must relate to His determination to do and say and think only those things that the Father told Him to do (i.e., separate Himself wholy to God). We know that He made that exact determination when He found Himself to be in the form of a man...

And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. (Php 2:8)​

That is what we do also when we consider and act according to the truth that God Himself has sanctified us. We santify ourselves when we consider ourselves as having been set apart, culled us out, cleansed of our sins by the blood of Jesus, made one with Him by new life in Christ, and dedicate ourselves daily to full-time service to Him.

You might call that something else. I call it sanctifying ourselves. But it could be called walking in the Spirit, or fulfilling the call to godly living, or living a sanctified life, or maybe something else.

It seems like we are just rehashing things we've already said. Maybe we should just say we agree on most items and move on to other things?
 
I was pointing out the contrast over "I am sinless" when we do and say things that are questionable.
Any time we use God's name in something that is not praise, it "may be" that you used His name in vain.
To say "God bless" is not using His name is vain, simply because "God" is not the name.
If you are trying to tell the world that "you" have never looked upon a woman with lust so as to keep you sinless......You will have to do better than this because I do not believe you.
It does not matter if you believe or don't believe me. What is important is that you believe the power of the Holy Spirit and the Bible:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32).

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:24).
 
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