The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[jasoncran]

Jason,

Once again please, let's start with posts 6 & 7...

What are your thoughts on those verses presented ?

i have and you cant answer my problems with chialism. is the law applicable to the jew in the millenium if not then why do you take the third temple of ezekiel literally?

it has levites doing this in this chapter
ezekiel 45

19And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.

20And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
21In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
22And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
23And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
24And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah. 25In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil

 

[jasoncran]

No, I was referring to the holy scriptures, all written by Jews.

How bout posts 6 & 7 ?

the chialism wasnt believed by the sages per that link.
but the pharisess did believe in the chialism that you teach. john the apostle who wrote the book of revalation didnt.

do i believe the whole kingdom of god is on the earth? NO but i dont believe part of it is or the church isnt in the kingdom.

so jesus didnt say the he would save you instantly? or does the church teach that its a process?

what does day of the lord mean to you? to me that in part has happend as that was for isreal. you may disagree but if you do tell me how luke 21 supports your position on jesus rescuing isreal?

 

[Eventide]

i have and you cant answer my problems with chialism.

No, you have not, and IMO the reason is obvious... Because they don't need interpretation... They're as plain as day.

 

[jasoncran]

No, you have not, and IMO the reason is obvious... Because they don't need interpretation... They're as plain as day.

so the idea of grace is no more after the second coming and yet there sinners being saved?

how odd is that to you and yet that is what i was forced to see if i took it all in in context.

 

[Eventide]

so the idea of grace is no more after the second coming and yet there sinners being saved?

how odd is that to you and yet that is what i was forced to see if i took it all in in context.

Jason, I can understand that you might associate me with some wacked out group that you were once a part of... That's fine, but all I'm asking is for your opinion on the word of God as it has been presented, not what some nut job might have told you in the past.

What are the holy scriptures from Matt and Luke saying to you in simplicity and in truth ?

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, I can understand that you might associate me with some wacked out group that you were once a part of... That's fine, but all I'm asking is for your opinion on the word of God as it has been presented, not what some nut job might have told you in the past.

What are the holy scriptures from Matt and Luke saying to you in simplicity and in truth ?

im not. im told this here and in my church you do believe in the aod and seven year tribulation right? that god will remove the church and deal with isreal and that one should look up when thou seest all these things?

and you then deny what i posted as fact on the idea of any army attacking jerusalem?

let see here.

ah yes i found this a while back

http://www.revelationcommentary.org/index.html

and im taught that jesus will rescue the nation of isreal by my pastor and any church i have been to. i confronted an elder on this and he is also ordained and he said the same.

so its not something made up by me nor was i raised in the church. you like i was havent really read the bible without their bias to see it. i was forced to by questions such as im posing to you.

as always the futurists couldnt answer the questions so i had to then be honest and say that doesnt fit and it doesnt.

i also have my dakes bible sold to me by a christian book store and dake was once part of my VERY DENOMATION AND DEFROCKED. so i dont read him and let see what he says
matthew 24:16

Then let them which be in judea flee into the mountains:

foot note i THEN when the antichrist enters judea and takes over the temple(daniel 9:27,11:40-450 Isreal will have to flee from judea

now then isnt that something you and i are taught these days? YUP. i hear all the time. david jeremiah is teaching this stuff all this month. skip hitzig has A books on IT.

HOW CANT THAT be when it cleary says that jerusalem shall not be saved in that same gospel but fall? why then do you cling to a return of isreal when its clear that its a warning for them to flee? and then if god judged them for rejected him why then would he then bring them back to the land only to scatter them?

when ever in the ot the remnant that returned did so with the idea that they had to build up the temple and aslo were on a mission from god? MODERN ISREAL IS OF NO SUCH SORT.

MOST OF THAT NATION IS SECULAR AND ALLOWS GAYS TO SERVE IN THE IDF AND ALSO allows freedom of religion and so forth and abortion. yet we say and teach god bless them for that! yes i know cufi deals with them on that and others but really?

 

[Eventide]

Never mind Jason, it's obvious that you can't even provide a simple response to the scriptures which have been presented here, and would rather speak about your own experience in some former group.

I tried.

 

[jasoncran]

is that what you think? ask your pastor on what verse are to support the literal temple? and then lets talk.

if not then think what you wish im not interested in being insulted on this, just presenting an alternate view. and try to least learn what the other arguments says.

amil doesnt say that all that is on earth is the best its going to get only that the church is the kingdom on the earth and when the lord returns he will then complete the deal with removing the wicked and then redeem all of creation.

 

[Eventide]

is that what you think?

I told you what I think and showed you the scripture supporting it... Although for some strange reason you can't speak to the scriptures....

And that says it all imo

 

[Eventide]

Imagine if a person told you that the resurrection of the dead had already happened..

You'd think that they are crazy, wouldn't you ?

And yet this is what some people say today..

Paul doesn't say that they're crazy though.... It's worse than that.. He says that their words eat like a cancer.

And Christians put up with this nonsense.

 

[jasoncran]

Imagine if a person told you that the resurrection of the dead had already happened..

You'd think that they are crazy, wouldn't you ?

And yet this is what some people say today..

Paul doesn't say that they're crazy though.... It's worse than that.. He says that their words eat like a cancer.

And Christians put up with this nonsense.

im NOT one of those. that hasnt happened yet. dont confuse me with stormcrow. hitchs view of the ressurection that it speaks of the first ressurection being our repentence and that doesnt deny in any way the the idea of a bodily ressurection. the spirit is raised then the body. that is what hitch says. jesus doesnt make men good he takes dead men and brings them back to life.

that is what hitch and the churches teach.

 

[Eventide]

im NOT one of those. that hasnt happened yet.

Ya mean to tell me that you're one of those wacky futurists ? LOL

 

[jasoncran]

historically speaking even the lutherans and calvinism were partial preterist and usually also amil.

that is close to what i am. the more i dig into this the less i know.

 

[Stormcrow]

Imagine if a person told you that the resurrection of the dead had already happened..

You'd think that they are crazy, wouldn't you ?

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:50-53 (NASB)

Yep. Guess old Levi was nutty as a loon.

 

[zeke]

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:50-53 (NASB)

Yep. Guess old Levi was nutty as a loon.

Yet future...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:16-17 KJV)​

Yep - preterism completely misunderstands old Levi. The NT does not teach the revisionist version of preterism - never has.

 

[Eventide]

And what preterists 'say' is no different than what was said in Paul's day... that the resurrection is past already.. and so the same is true concerning what their words do...

They eat like a cancer..

 

[Eventide]

im NOT one of those..

So if you do not believe that the resurrection of the dead has already happened, then that demands that you also can't believe that Christ has already come.. because His coming is directly tied to the resurrection.

 

[Stormcrow]

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Luke 21:20 (NASB)

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days [the siege of Jerusalem: Luke 21:20] THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Matthew 24:29-31 (NASB)

"But in those days, after that tribulation, [the siege of Jerusalem: Luke 21:20] THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Mark 13:24-27 (NASB)

The "great tribulation" of Jerusalem, which culminated in its siege and destruction, happened in the three and a half year period leading up to 9 Av 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the city and killed - by some estimates - 1.1 million Jews.

Everything Jesus Christ Himself told the disciples on the Mount of Olives - highlighted and underscored above - is set in the period immediately after these events. These are not my words: they are His.

So either admit you don't understand what He was telling them, or continue to call Him "liar."

 

[Eventide]

So this goes back to people IGNORING the mystery pertaining to ISRAEL and therefore becoming wise in their own conceits. We see it every day here in CF.

The nation of Israel is blinded in part UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..

We also know that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the times of the GENTILES be fulfilled.

We know that the nation of Israel is an enemy as concerning the GOSPEL..

We know that Israel is beloved because of the fathers... the seemingly countless patriarchs of Israel mentioned throughout the ancient texts of the OT..

We know that the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB...

Simple stuff and yet it's ignored by many in Christendom today... and it's just as Paul says.. they become wise in their own conceits.

 

[Stormcrow]

So this goes back to people IGNORING the mystery pertaining to ISRAEL and therefore becoming wise in their own conceits. We see it every day here in CF.

The nation of Israel is blinded in part UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..

We also know that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the times of the GENTILES be fulfilled.

We know that the nation of Israel is an enemy as concerning the GOSPEL..

We know that Israel is beloved because of the fathers... the seemingly countless patriarchs of Israel mentioned throughout the ancient texts of the OT..

We know that the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB...

Simple stuff and yet it's ignored by many in Christendom today... and it's just as Paul says.. they become wise in their own conceits.

All fulfilled in the life of Christ and the apostolic era culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem.