The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[Eventide]

As travail upon a woman with child...

Revelation 12 is a fascinating portion of the word of God which pertains to the things which shall hereafter...

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman is clearly Israel !

A nation born in a day... In that day, the day of the LORD, the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[jasoncran]

revalation 12:1-5 already has come to pass. that happened when jesus was on this earth and died on the cross.
surely you arent going to look for another man-child to rule the nations that is born to a virgin that is going to be killed by satan.

that well would put you in a pickle.

 

[Eventide]

revalation 12:1-5 already has come to pass. that happened when jesus was on this earth and died on the cross.
surely you arent going to look for another man-child to rule the nations that is born to a virgin that is going to be killed by satan.

that well would put you in a pickle.

I used to believe that as well, although its context is clearly future, and it's contextually linked to Daniel 12 which speaks of the time of the end, when his (Daniel's) people shall be delivered.

It speaks of a woman with child, and Paul tells us that the day of the LORD shall come as travail upon a woman with child.

And of course it is within the portion of the book pertaining to the things which shall be hereafter.

This is speaking of the nation of Israel being born again and then protected in the wilderness for a time, times, and half a time.

 

[jasoncran]

I used to believe that as well, although its context is clearly future, and it's contextually linked to Daniel 12 which speaks of the time of the end, when his (Daniel's) people shall be delivered.

It speaks of a woman with child, and Paul tells us that the day of the LORD shall come as travail upon a woman with child.

And of course it is within the portion of the book pertaining to the things which shall be hereafter.

no that is it even taught by my pastor at all.. look at what the child is to do! rule the nations with an iron fist! who can only do that? JESUS

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

so jesus is coming back as boy again to save isreal? hmm what about all them jewish men like me and others who have repented and do serve? is that not what paul is saying?

he is talking about INDIVIDUALS of that nation not the state. one is only of isreal to god if one is in christ and a hebrew. that is what is also told to the jews by peter in 1 peter!

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia

1 peter 2:10

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[Eventide]

While it should be fairly obvious from the text that the woman is Israel... Notice another vital link in the text...

Michael...

Then go read Daniel 12 and see Michael there as well, and its context is the time of the end, when Daniel's people shall be delivered.

Not destroyed as so many preach... D E L I V E R E D...

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Eventide]

no that is it even taught by my pastor at all.. look at what the child is to do! rule the nations with an iron fist! who can only do that? JESUS

Take it slowly...

There's a woman with child... And From Genesis we can see that the woman is Israel..

Can you see the birth pains yet...

Can you see that Day approaching...

I sure can... And that Day shall come as travail upon a woman with child...

 

[jasoncran]

While it should be fairly obvious from the text that the woman is Israel... Notice another vital link in the text...

Michael...

Then go read Daniel 12 and see Michael there as well, and its context is the time of the end, when Daniel's people shall be delivered.

Not destroyed as so many preach... D E L I V E R E D...

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

so paul and those jews that believed arent of isreal?

no jew saved in ere this rapture is a jew thus will NOT be in that land promise? that verse says to me when isreal rejected the messiah they lost their status as his nation and were judged. clearly said by peter as he wrote to the jews.

 

[jasoncran]

Take it slowly...

There's a woman with child... And From Genesis we can see that the woman is Israel..

Can you see the birth pains yet...

Can you see that Day approaching...

I sure can... And that Day shall come as travail upon a woman with child...

its says man - child meaning boy as in baby. that cant be taken any other way.

 

[Eventide]

that verse says to me when isreal rejected the messiah they lost their status as his nation and were judged. clearly said by peter as he wrote to the jews.

Where does Rev 12 say that... It says that they are protected in the wilderness, not that they rejected their Messiah...

 

[Elijah674]

revalation 12:1-5 already has come to pass. that happened when jesus was on this earth and died on the cross.
surely you arent going to look for another man-child to rule the nations that is born to a virgin that is going to be killed by satan.

that well would put you in a pickle.

Yet, there are required repeats regardless if satan has to use (or make up) counterfiets. The answer to your question is seen in Heb. 6:6 clearly in the spiritual re/execution of Christ by professed saints. And these are doing it all over again, are they not??

And ask yourself, (not other 'blind' posters) why Christ did not come as recorded that He would in Matt. 24:14? It is documented that the Gospel had gone to even the end of the earth. (twice recorded Col. 1:23-Rom. 10:18) And the reason is because God requires this repeat! (Eccl. 3:15 + Eccl. 1:9-10 & for how God WORKS as seen in Gen. 41:32's doubled & twice!)

Even see Matt. 10:5-6 with Christ's COMMAND! and then in verse 23 you find Christ's Second Coming prophesied! (but He was there ALREADY there speaking Jason.) And the verse says...
[23] But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

OK: Did He come?? Of course not, this is the REQUIRED second time 'worldwide' prophecy!

--Elijah

PS: You have tough skin!;) But when does Titus 3:9-11 apply with these guys for you?

 

[Eventide]

Why are so many people bent on the destruction of Israel when the scriptures clearly show the time of the end pertaining to the DELIVERANCE of that nation ?

Look at Matthew 19...

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Do the math..

When shall the Apostles sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel ?

Answer... In the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory..

When shall the LORD sit upon the throne of His glory ?

Answer... When the LORD shall come in His glory.. As Matt 25 plainly teaches..

 

[Eventide]

as travail upon a woman with child...

So if Rev 12 speaks of the woman (Israel) being with child and then protected in the wilderness for a time, times, and half a time... where else might the Revelation show us some more detail of this nation being born again, having Christ in them... ?

Well, Revelation 7 of course... (which also pertains to the things which shall be hereafter)

There we read of 144,000 Israelites, from the twelve tribes listed.. SEALED with the seal of God in their forheads..

Plain as day isn't it... ?

A nation born (again) in a day...

Yes, and only possible through the grace and power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Eventide]

The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ might have a very different meaning than what you may have thought or been taught... its actually more aligned with the 'Unveiling of Jesus Christ'... God's anointed King of kings.. and the events pertaining to many of the things 'which shall be'... hereafter.

 

[Sinthesis]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ might have a very different meaning than what you may have thought or been taught... its actually more aligned with the 'Unveiling of Jesus Christ'... God's anointed King of kings.. and the events pertaining to many of the things 'which shall be'... hereafter.

How could this not be in the past when we all already know that Jesus Christ is God's anointed King of kings. Surely Jesus is not still veiled to you.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: as travail upon a woman with child...

So if Rev 12 speaks of the woman (Israel) being with child and then protected in the wilderness for a time, times, and half a time... where else might the Revelation show us some more detail of this nation being born again, having Christ in them... ?

Well, Revelation 7 of course... (which also pertains to the things which shall be hereafter)

There we read of 144,000 Israelites, from the twelve tribes listed.. SEALED with the seal of God in their forheads..

Plain as day isn't it... ?

A nation born (again) in a day...

Yes, and only possible through the grace and power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

hereafter , john's day not all of it but johns day. so james the apostle didnt write to the scattered tribes of isreal and there wasnt a woman of asher?
luke 2

And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

so they didnt know where the lost tribes were? i think they did know and they talked to them and also told them of jesus.

 

[eddif]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ might have a very different meaning than what you may have thought or been taught... its actually more aligned with the 'Unveiling of Jesus Christ'... God's anointed King of kings.. and the events pertaining to many of the things 'which shall be'... hereafter.

I even wonder if the word hereafter is that: it happens here after the heavenly prophecy agrees. Done on earth as it is in heaven: hereafter. Of course as a jerk from Mississippi, what should I know.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Just in case you are wondering......

Paul followed his heavenly vision.
Acts 26:19 said that Paul was not disobedient to his heavenly vision.
That is just a personal thing that became a hereafter.

There have been several things that have been discussed in this thread about what will happen here after the signs are seen (prophesy that will come to pass).


eddif

 

[Eventide]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

How could this not be in the past when we all already know that Jesus Christ is God's anointed King of kings. Surely Jesus is not still veiled to you.

What specifically are you referring to ?

The entire book ?

If so, could you explain to us when all of these things took place ?

You do know that the Revelation describes the coming of Christ with His saints.. Don't you ? So are you saying that The Lord Jesus Christ has already come ?

AND of course he Lord is not veiled to those who are in Christ and members of His body.. Although He is veiled to this present evil world.

 

[Eventide]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

I even wonder if the word hereafter is that: it happens here after the heavenly prophecy agrees. Done on earth as it is in heaven: hereafter. Of course as a jerk from Mississippi, what should I know.

eddif

Not sure what you're trying to say here... Are you saying that God's will IS being done on earth right now ?

 

[eddif]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

Not sure what you're trying to say here... Are you saying that God's will IS being done on earth right now ?

In one sense.

There were things that were foretold by prophets / angels / dreams / etc that came to pass. There are things that exist now that were foretold, that we experience now. There are many things that are to be (already foretold and some having signs that will show their appearing is eminent).

This is all a new thought with me. I honestly do not know that I can totally put this in words yet. Once I quoted the church tradition that Jesus used parables to teach with, and (finally I saw scripture reavels Jesus used parables to conceal).

Jesus had many prophecys and signs of his coming foretold. Now we have many things that are foretold and given the signs of the appearing things.

It seems to me that the restatement of creation in Genesis sure has a lot of things similar to statements / restatements in Revelation.

All symbols have a spiritual reality behind them. Jesus is sure the reality behind a lot of symbols. Jesus was the temple he was talking about, but he also was aware of the physical temple of the time.

eddif