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The Truth About The Trinity Doctrine: The Answer to All Questions.

Peterlag said:
Did the Trinty come from the Apostles or from the Catholics?
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What's the difference?
Are you aware that the CC was the first church and cemented all the first teachings?

The Trinity is shown in scripture but it took some early theologians in the beginning of the church to sort it out.
That church happens to be the CC...which stated the understanding of the Trinity at the council of Nicea in 325AD.
It stated..not invented. The theory was circulating already and just needed to be confirmed by a governing body.
 
Cooper said:
So we are provided with a link to a false cult almost identical to Trinitarianism. Both teach three individual persons. Each person is God but is not the other person, who is also God, both adding up to three gods.
.
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I agree that they sound very similar.

In trinitarianism God has always existed as FATHER, LOGOS, SPIRIT

In modulism,,,God created LOGOS and SPIRIT as time went on.
 
Cooper said:
It came from Constantin who adopted Christianity for political reasons many years after the death of Christ and the apostles. It was adopted by the early Catholic Church against the wishes of many bishops.
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§Actually you're right in both cases.

Constantine did adopt the Christian religion for PERHAPS political purposes...who can know for sure what was in his heart...but it seems feasible to me.

Some in the Catholic church believed in ariansim....
but the church, as a body, and as a majority, did agree that Jesus was God in some form, as described by the NT writings.

Would you like to read some writings of the early theologians?
I can post them but will not do so if you're not interested...
 
Cooper said:
I know all that, been there and done it as they say. I did write that Trintarism was adopted by the Catholic Church at the behest of Constantine. However, I am reading the Trinitarians were founded on 17 December 1198; 823 years ago by John of Matha and Felix of Valois. Their headquarters are in Rome and their membership in 2018 numbered 610, which includes 415 priests. Their Parent organization is the Catholic Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
This must be a different order. Constantine the Great born 272 died on 22 May 337.

Now down to the core of the matter. I asked you to look at the Trinitarian diagram's outer edge and tell me what it says. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

I shall post it. Here it comes. “The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father.”

That is Modalism with the name changed to Trinitarianism.
I believe in ONE God and Jesus said “I and the Father are One.”
Please do not call me a Modalist, you could not have devised a greater insult if you had tried.
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Your image is correct.

I do feel that you just want to argue with Free instead of trying to understand each other.
You BOTH sound correct...

Difficult to use man's language for God's order.
 
Free said:
What it is is a purposeful and willful lack of comprehension on your part. That the diagram happens to fit with Modalism is irrelevant, as the diagram doesn't not communicate the entire doctrine of the Trinity. You should actually read the definitions I gave, the ones you asked for, and then actually read the definition of the Trinity provided in your link. Your argument is a straw man.


So do I, so do Modalists, so do Arianists. But there is much more that need to be taken into account than a single verse.


Your beliefs are far closer to Modalism (if not identical to) than the doctrine of the Trinity. Modalism--one person, three modes; you--one person, three titles or roles. Note that "roles" is essentially the same as "modes." The only difference is that you believe all three exist at the same time, although, I would think that Modalists must believe God can exist in all modes at once, since all three appear at the same time in the NT. Regardless, your position is not Trinitarian and not biblical.
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Actually Free...
The image Cooper has posted is correct.
Again,,,it's not easy to talk about this.


1658748080121.png


This is the accepted understanding of the Trinity or Godhead.
 
Peterlag said:
I would prefer if you gave a verse to suggest there is such a thing. Then I would be happy to comment if it's one verse at a time.
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No PL.
YOU must provide the verse.
It's YOU that introduced a new idea and your responsibility to support it.

We here on this forum believe in the Trinity/Godhead as it is accepted by traditional Christianity.

If you have a differing opinion, it's up to you to state it.
 
True Faith said:
they are the very same that are used to make up the Bible... if you are using any version of the Bible out there you are using the same ones.. as for question 2, it is answered in the post you quoted..
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Could you be m ore clear?
WHAT is the same that is used to make up the bible?

I'm sure you're aware that the "originals" do not exist.
What do you believe is used to make up the bible?
 
wondering said:
Actually Free...
The image Cooper has posted is correct.
Again,,,it's not easy to talk about this.


View attachment 14489


This is the accepted understanding of the Trinity or Godhead.
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I never said the image was incorrect, just that it doesn’t communicate the doctrine of the Trinity all that well.
 
wondering said:
What's the difference?
Are you aware that the CC was the first church and cemented all the first teachings?

The Trinity is shown in scripture but it took some early theologians in the beginning of the church to sort it out.
That church happens to be the CC...which stated the understanding of the Trinity at the council of Nicea in 325AD.
It stated..not invented. The theory was circulating already and just needed to be confirmed by a governing body.
Click to expand...
The Apostles did not teach the Trinity because there's no such Christian concept. The Catholics invented it when they took over by force the Christian church.
 
Peterlag said:
The Apostles did not teach the Trinity because there's no such Christian concept. The Catholics invented it when they took over by force the Christian church.
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While there is no specific teaching of the Trinity in the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity exists because of what God reveals of himself through Scripture. It came from many years—a few centuries—of considering, meditating on, and trying to make sense of these revelations. It has little to do with Catholicism and everything to do with Scripture.
 
Free said:
While there is no specific teaching of the Trinity in the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity exists because of what God reveals of himself through Scripture. It came from many years—a few centuries—of considering, meditating on, and trying to make sense of these revelations. It has little to do with Catholicism and everything to do with Scripture.
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I will post data on this if you teach me how to post here. Could you tell me what the name of this forum is? When I click on the little icon to post I get a pop up menu asking where and I don't know where or what this forum is.
 
wondering said:
I agree that they sound very similar.

In trinitarianism God has always existed as FATHER, LOGOS, SPIRIT

In modulism,,,God created LOGOS and SPIRIT as time went on.
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Modulism is wrong.

The scripture in my signature is correct. Notice the words God, Jesus (flesh), Spirit.

Three 'persons' are present on earth at one and the same time. Incidentally, Jesus said, “The Father is in me.” God is One and not three. That does away with modulism.

Those who falsely accuse me of being a modulist are on ignore.
 
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Peterlag said:
I will post data on this if you teach me how to post here. Could you tell me what the name of this forum is? When I click on the little icon to post I get a pop up menu asking where and I don't know where or what this forum is.
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Just copy and paste and post like you are posting now.
 
Cooper said:
Modulism is wrong.

The scripture in my signature is correct. Notice the words God, Jesus (flesh), Spirit.

Three 'persons' are present on earth at one and the same time.
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Just a quick correction: there is no such thing as "modulism" regarding the nature of God. While you are not a Modalist, there is ultimately not a whole lot of difference between saying that God is one person who has existed in a different form or mode at different times, and saying that God is one person who uses different titles or roles concurrently. Both are not biblical.

Cooper said:
Incidentally, Jesus said, “The Father is in me.” God is One and not three. That does away with modulism.
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To complete that verse, Jesus said that "even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that he Father is in me and I am in the Father." Clearly two persons are being mentioned. Saying these are just two roles or titles used by God makes no sense.

And, to correct again, Modalism teaches one person, not three.

Cooper said:
Those who falsely accuse me of being a modulist are on ignore.
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As I stated previously, your beliefs are closer to Modalism than to Trinitarianism.
 
Peterlag said:
Yeah... but I did not know where or what this forum is. Someone just told me a minute ago it's the Question & Answer Forum which is not the place for debates.
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You've been posting in a number of different forums, so how can you not know what forum you are in? This is the Theology forum, where debate is most certainly allowed. Look near the top. You should see: Forums > Christian Discussion > Theology.
 
Free said:
You've been posting in a number of different forums, so how can you not know what forum you are in? This is the Theology forum, where debate is most certainly allowed. Look near the top. You should see: Forums > Christian Discussion > Theology.
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I could not handle this life without your help. All I knew is I would click on forums and then new post and assumed I was always in that one forum called "forums... new post."
 
Peterlag said:
The Apostles did not teach the Trinity because there's no such Christian concept. The Catholics invented it when they took over by force the Christian church.
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Peterlag,

That's a broad statement against the Trinity, with no supporting evidence to uphold your view. If you plan to refute the Trinity, please start with biblical evidence. You might like to use some of the evidence I've provided in my articles:

I have written seven articles on the biblical basis for the Trinity:

1. Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

2. Problems with the Trinity

3. How to understand three persons in the Trinity

4. Is Jesus a God and not the God? (written by Sue Bohlin)

5. Jesus claims to be God’

6 Is the Holy Spirit God?

7. Is the God of Islam the same God as Elohim of the Christian Scriptures?

Sincerely,
Oz
 
Cooper said:
Modulism is wrong.

The scripture in my signature is correct. Notice the words God, Jesus (flesh), Spirit.

Three 'persons' are present on earth at one and the same time. Incidentally, Jesus said, “The Father is in me.” God is One and not three. That does away with modulism.

Those who falsely accuse me of being a modulist are on ignore.
Click to expand...

Cooper,

It's spelt Modalism and not Modulism. This heretical view has Father, Son and Holy Spirit operating as three different modes of God.

"Modalism is the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting parts of the divine nature" (Oxford English Dictionary).

Oz
 
Peterlag said:
I could not handle this life without your help. All I knew is I would click on forums and then new post and assumed I was always in that one forum called "forums... new post."
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I thought that might have been the case. Glad I could help.
 
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