God cannot judge unaware people

Highway54 said:

If God does turn out to be less loving than humans, I certainly hope I have the fortitude to take my stand against him.

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You're going to take a stand against God?

Highway54 said:

But for now, until it is proven to me the correctness of your statement, I will continue to worship and serve Him exclusively as I believe Love is His excelling quality Glory.

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Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature? The Westminster Larger Catechism – Question 60

A60: They who, having never heard the gospel,[1] know not Jesus Christ,[2] and believe not in him, cannot be saved,[3] be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature,[4] or the laws of that religion which they profess;[5] neither is there salvation in any other, but in Christ alone,[6] who is the Savior only of his body the church.[7]

1. Romans 10:14, 2. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:12; John 1:11-12, 3. John 8:24; Mark 16:16,

4. 1 Corinthians 1:20-24, 5. John 4:22; Romans 9:31-32; Philippians 3:4-9, 6. Acts 4:12, 7. Ephesians 5:23



Knowledge of Christ is the only means by which one can be saved; call the “sufficiency of Christ”

• Matthew 11:27b and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son [deliberately] wills to reveal Him.
• John 1:11-12
• John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].
• John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
• John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
• John 14:6 No one comes to the Father except through me".
• John 12:48 Whoever rejects Me and refuses to accept My teachings, has one who judges him; the very word that I spoke will judge and condemn him on the last day.
• John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among people by which we must be saved [for God has provided the world no alternative for salvation].”
• Romans 3:10 As it is written and forever remains written, “There is none righteous [none that meets God’s standard], not even one.11 “There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God. 12 “All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
• Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets. 22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction, 23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
• Romans 10:13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord [in prayer] will be saved.” 14 But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher (messenger)? 15 And how will they preach unless they are commissioned and sent [for that purpose]? Just as it is written and forever remains written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
• 1 Corinthians 6:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come!
• 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
• Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separated from Christ [excluded from any relationship with Him], alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the sacred Messianic promise and without knowledge of God’s agreements], having no hope [in His promise] and [living] in the world without God.
• Ephesians 2:12
• 1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
• 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
• 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Inclusivism depreciates the Trinity. This depreciates the Incarnation, depreciates the work and atonement of Christ, denies the uniqueness of the Bible, denies the necessity of gospel truth, substitutes the same old philosophical junk about the 'universal logos' at work in all religious systems. John MacArthur

Highway54 said:

I never reject what is written in the Bible maam, however often I reject how others interpret it. I disagree with your interpretation of those passages, we will find out in the resurrection if God resurrects those whom are considered unaccountable. If God does turn out to be less loving than humans, I certainly hope I have the fortitude to take my stand against him. But for now, until it is proven to me the correctness of your statement, I will continue to worship and serve Him exclusively as I believe Love is His excelling quality Glory.

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Hi Highway,
I've known for_his_glory a long time and I really think you're speaking about two different situations.

By incapable, in this thread, we mean someone that has no concept of God because they're mentally incapacitated.

I've had the misfortune to see and know many of these children. Some can come to have an understanding of God, some love Him, and some don't even know they're in the world.

These children will be in the arms of Jesus when they die. Their pain and troubles will be over.

wondering said:

Hi Highway,
I've known for_his_glory a long time and I really think you're speaking about two different situations.

By incapable, in this thread, we mean someone that has no concept of God because they're mentally incapacitated.

I've had the misfortune to see and know many of these children. Some can come to have an understanding of God, some love Him, and some don't even know they're in the world.

These children will be in the arms of Jesus when they die. Their pain and troubles will be over.


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Thank you for bringing a new light to the conversation as those who are incapable being mentally handicapped as they would have never understood the word of God even after hearing only the words spoken. I use to work with the mentally handicap and some loved going to church and did learn a little as they comprehended as a simple child while others had no clue even where they would have been. Yes, I agree these are those who God will welcome with open arms who will have no excuse before Him.

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Lord Jesus, only if they would call upon your name realizing the great love you have and what you gave for that amazing grace instead of ignoring the greatest love that has ever been and will never be again. So many will stand before you that day striving to make their excuses, but to no avail as then it will be to late for them.

for_his_glory said:

By what you have said here about the love of God do you believe that He is going to allow sinners into His Kingdom that is the new Jerusalem that will be ushered down after final judgements are made.

BTW, those verses I gave need no interpretation as we need not second guess what was written, but to accept it word for word as I gave no interpretation.

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I do but for how long I do not know. Clearly the sinners that are resurrected will still be prone to sin, God is not turning them into robots, but all by the end of that millennium will no longer have inherited sin. At some point during the thousand yr Kingdom tolerance of sin will likely come to a close. After we come to life at the end of the millennium Rev 20:5 sin will result in death, most probably instantly. Keep in mind this is speculation as the Bible doesn't give time periods on it. We will actually have to be there to see how it plays out.

for_his_glory said:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Verse 29 makes it pretty clear without interpretations what happens to those who are without excuse. I guess Jehovah Witnesses teach it differently within their New World Translation Bible.

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Remember you are using a version of the Bible. I disagree with your versions rendering of the word Krisis, note the definition:
krivsiß Krisis (kree'-sis); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 2920
a separating, sundering, separation
a trial, contest
selection
judgment
opinion or decision given concerning anything
esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong
sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment
the college of judges (a tribunal of seven men in the several cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin, which had its seat at Jerusalem)
right, justice

They will be brought back in judgment, they will be educated in God's ways and be given the opportunity they never had to accept and serve Him.

It would be a pretty sick god to resurrect someone just to kill them off again, but if he is that sick, I hope I have the strength to stand against him as satan did, at least we would die in honor. Why would you worship a god like that?

Fastfredy0 said:

You're going to take a stand against God?



Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature? The Westminster Larger Catechism – Question 60

A60: They who, having never heard the gospel,[1] know not Jesus Christ,[2] and believe not in him, cannot be saved,[3] be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature,[4] or the laws of that religion which they profess;[5] neither is there salvation in any other, but in Christ alone,[6] who is the Savior only of his body the church.[7]

1. Romans 10:14, 2. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:12; John 1:11-12, 3. John 8:24; Mark 16:16,

4. 1 Corinthians 1:20-24, 5. John 4:22; Romans 9:31-32; Philippians 3:4-9, 6. Acts 4:12, 7. Ephesians 5:23



Knowledge of Christ is the only means by which one can be saved; call the “sufficiency of Christ”

• Matthew 11:27b and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son [deliberately] wills to reveal Him.
• John 1:11-12
• John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].
• John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
• John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
• John 14:6 No one comes to the Father except through me".
• John 12:48 Whoever rejects Me and refuses to accept My teachings, has one who judges him; the very word that I spoke will judge and condemn him on the last day.
• John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among people by which we must be saved [for God has provided the world no alternative for salvation].”
• Romans 3:10 As it is written and forever remains written, “There is none righteous [none that meets God’s standard], not even one.11 “There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God. 12 “All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
• Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets. 22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction, 23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
• Romans 10:13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord [in prayer] will be saved.” 14 But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher (messenger)? 15 And how will they preach unless they are commissioned and sent [for that purpose]? Just as it is written and forever remains written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
• 1 Corinthians 6:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come!
• 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
• Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separated from Christ [excluded from any relationship with Him], alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the sacred Messianic promise and without knowledge of God’s agreements], having no hope [in His promise] and [living] in the world without God.
• Ephesians 2:12
• 1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
• 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
• 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Inclusivism depreciates the Trinity. This depreciates the Incarnation, depreciates the work and atonement of Christ, denies the uniqueness of the Bible, denies the necessity of gospel truth, substitutes the same old philosophical junk about the 'universal logos' at work in all religious systems. John MacArthur

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Fastfredy0 said:

You're going to take a stand against God?

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If he proves to be a worthless god! I take a stand against satan now for that reason, if Jehovah proves to be just as worthless, why would I not take a stand against him? Righteous individuals stand against worthless gods.

Fastfredy0 said:

an they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature?

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You went on to say no, I disagree. Mat 24:14 shows that God has a responsibility to reach people, if they have not been given the opportunity to know Him, then how can they be held accountable? I agree that they are not saved by the light of nature, but they will be given the opportunity to know and serve Him during the millennium, why do you believe they received a resurrection? Jesus' ransom applied equally to them as it did for the righteous. Remember the resurrected unrighteous are not the same as those who have sinned against the holy spirit who have no redemption. We do not believe they will receive a resurrection.

Do you honestly believe that humans have more compassion and love than Jehovah sir?

wondering said:

Hi Highway,
I've known for_his_glory a long time and I really think you're speaking about two different situations.

By incapable, in this thread, we mean someone that has no concept of God because they're mentally incapacitated.

I've had the misfortune to see and know many of these children. Some can come to have an understanding of God, some love Him, and some don't even know they're in the world.

These children will be in the arms of Jesus when they die. Their pain and troubles will be over.


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I couldn't agree more maam, I hope she feels that way too, but that is not what her posts indicate. I don't think I am misreading them, but I hope you are correct and that I am.

Highway54 said:

I couldn't agree more maam, I hope she feels that way too, but that is not what her posts indicate. I don't think I am misreading them, but I hope you are correct and that I am.

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Please see post 23.

Highway54 said:

Do you honestly believe that humans have more compassion and love than Jehovah sir?

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From reading your posts I believe much of your theology is driven by your definition of love. I am fairly certain that my definition and yours vary. Answering your question without an agreed upon foundation of "what love is" would be a waste of time.

wondering said:

Please see post 23.

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I am glad you brought that to my attention maam, I wonder (no pun intended) why she just didn't say that to me, instead of promoting God as being less loving as humans. I generally do not read what others post not directed to me as I do not what to infringe on their conversation, so I was unaware that she felt that way. Some people speak differently to those of my faith, likely that is the why behind it. Kinda like the tv dad commercial I giggle at when I see them. I have even had some change their mind in their posts when I agree with them, I have observed that many times in my posting history.

I do in fact appreciate your sincerity and honesty Wondering. As you know we will disagree on many points, but you have an extremely kind way about you, and a seeming honest desire to understand others beliefs in a spirit of open-mindedness. You have helped me in a couple of instances to understand what others meant by their comments.

Highway54 said:

I am glad you brought that to my attention maam, I wonder (no pun intended) why she just didn't say that to me, instead of promoting God as being less loving as humans. I generally do not read what others post not directed to me as I do not what to infringe on their conversation, so I was unaware that she felt that way. Some people speak differently to those of my faith, likely that is the why behind it. Kinda like the tv dad commercial I giggle at when I see them. I have even had some change their mind in their posts when I agree with them, I have observed that many times in my posting history.

I do in fact appreciate your sincerity and honesty Wondering. As you know we will disagree on many points, but you have an extremely kind way about you, and a seeming honest desire to understand others beliefs in a spirit of open-mindedness. You have helped me in a couple of instances to understand what others meant by their comments.

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Thank you H,
That's so nice of you.
It just seemed obvious that there was a misunderstanding.

Also, conversations here are open. You would never be infringing on a conversation. Feel free to join in.

Also, I don't think we're saved by our doctrine but by our Lord and Savior, if we live a life pleasing to Him.

Fastfredy0 said:

From reading your posts I believe much of your theology is driven by your definition of love. I am fairly certain that my definition and yours vary. Answering your question without an agreed upon foundation of "what love is" would be a waste of time.

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Yes sir I agree, there are different degrees of love, represented by different words in the Bible. The strongest form is Agape, which Jesus defined as this Fred: (John 15:13) . . .No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends. Jesus displayed that kind of love, and I define love the same way as perhaps you do.

But in context with the conversation, some indicated that God is not going to accept those whom humans consider to be unaccountable. That would include all infants, severely retarded, those with alzheimer's could be included. To say God would not accept them when humans not only accept them but care for them as well. That would be another good definition of them as well, those who would die without someone taking care of them, make any sense? If God is that unloving, displaying less love than humans, he certainly is not worthy of sovereignty. That is the context of my statement. If you still disagree, then yes sir, we have a very different definition of what love is.

Highway54 said:

If God is that unloving, displaying less love than humans, he certainly is not worthy of sovereignty. That is the context of my statement. If you still disagree, then yes sir, we have a very different definition of what love is.

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Well, my main disagreement with your definition is the God is holy and holiness must apply to all His moral attributes.
God cannot love that which He hates. God hates sinners.
. If he have any esteem for his own perfections, he must needs have an implacable aversion to all that is so repugnant to him, that would, if it were possible, destroy him, and is a point directed, not only against his glory, but against his life. If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature. Nay, if it were possible for him to love it, it were possible for him not to be holy, it were possible then for him to deny himself, and will that he were no God, which is a palpable contradiction. Stephen Charnock

Aside: your definitions of LOVE (die for fellow man, and humans caring of disabled) are examples of love, but not a definition.

My Definition of Agape Love.
God’s love is an passionless, immutable, holy (separated from evil, ethical) disposition to favor (goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight, Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth) according to the ethical loveliness and divine likeness of the object which is a bond of unity – Colossians 3:14 for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best for others); God himself and those “in Christ” being bonded in agreement. (“The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) marks a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love).

wondering said:

Thank you H,
That's so nice of you.
It just seemed obvious that there was a misunderstanding.

Also, conversations here are open. You would never be infringing on a conversation. Feel free to join in.

Also, I don't think we're saved by our doctrine but by our Lord and Savior, if we live a life pleasing to Him.

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Doctrine is critical maam. We have been given the assignment to teach people to observe all the things Jesus commanded, if our teachings are not in harmony with Jesus, we would be no different than satan who was the original doctrine alterer, look at what the result has been from Eve choosing to accept satans contradictory words over God's.

Fastfredy0 said:

Well, my main disagreement with your definition is the God is holy and holiness must apply to all His moral attributes.
God cannot love that which He hates. God hates sinners.
. If he have any esteem for his own perfections, he must needs have an implacable aversion to all that is so repugnant to him, that would, if it were possible, destroy him, and is a point directed, not only against his glory, but against his life. If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature. Nay, if it were possible for him to love it, it were possible for him not to be holy, it were possible then for him to deny himself, and will that he were no God, which is a palpable contradiction. Stephen Charnock

Aside: your definitions of LOVE (die for fellow man, and humans caring of disabled) are examples of love, but not a definition.

My Definition of Agape Love.
God’s love is an passionless, immutable, holy (separated from evil, ethical) disposition to favor (goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight, Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth) according to the ethical loveliness and divine likeness of the object which is a bond of unity – Colossians 3:14 for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best for others); God himself and those “in Christ” being bonded in agreement. (“The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) marks a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love).

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Fastfredy0 said:

God cannot love that which He hates. God hates sinners.

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I am ignorant of this Fred, do you have Scriptural support for your statement?

Re: God cannot love that which He hates. God hates sinners.

Highway54 said:

I am ignorant of this Fred, do you have Scriptural support for your statement?

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Again, one must give definitions as a foundation for discussion.
‘Love’ and ‘hate’ are not emotions that God feels but actions that he carries out. Tom Constable

LOVE.
The Greek word agape is often translated “love” in the New Testament. How is “agape love” different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love. Gotquestions.org

I usually use the word FAVOR for goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight.
HATE
Strictly speaking, wrath is not an attribute of God’s nature, but is his “holy justice against sin”. Joel Beeke Reformed Systematic Theology

.... oh, nevermind ... I found this answer while looking for definition of hate.

Does God hate? If God is love, how can He hate? | GotQuestions.org

Does God hate? If God is love, how can He hate? Can God love and hate at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

or ...
When the Bible speaks of God’s loving someone, it means He has chosen to favor them; when it speaks of God’s hating someone, it means He has chosen not to favor them. Thus, we are to favor Christ and not favor the members of our families (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:24). Thus, God favored Jacob and did not favor Esau. Thus, we favor God’s friends and we do not favor God’s enemies (Psalm 139). https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-love-and-gods-hatred/


God’s wrath means that he intensely hates all sin. Hate is not an emotion (see impassibility); rather, His justice toward sin. John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. Paul says, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men” (Romans 1:18; cf. Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 2:16; 5 9; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16–17; Revelation 19:15).

If you want, I can list 20 or 30 verses saying God hates certain people

Fastfredy0 said:

Re: God cannot love that which He hates. God hates sinners.

Again, one must give definitions as a foundation for discussion.
‘Love’ and ‘hate’ are not emotions that God feels but actions that he carries out. Tom Constable

LOVE.
The Greek word agape is often translated “love” in the New Testament. How is “agape love” different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love. Gotquestions.org

I usually use the word FAVOR for goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight.
HATE
Strictly speaking, wrath is not an attribute of God’s nature, but is his “holy justice against sin”. Joel Beeke Reformed Systematic Theology

.... oh, nevermind ... I found this answer while looking for definition of hate.

Does God hate? If God is love, how can He hate? | GotQuestions.org

Does God hate? If God is love, how can He hate? Can God love and hate at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

or ...
When the Bible speaks of God’s loving someone, it means He has chosen to favor them; when it speaks of God’s hating someone, it means He has chosen not to favor them. Thus, we are to favor Christ and not favor the members of our families (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:24). Thus, God favored Jacob and did not favor Esau. Thus, we favor God’s friends and we do not favor God’s enemies (Psalm 139). https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-love-and-gods-hatred/


God’s wrath means that he intensely hates all sin. Hate is not an emotion (see impassibility); rather, His justice toward sin. John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. Paul says, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men” (Romans 1:18; cf. Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 2:16; 5 9; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16–17; Revelation 19:15).

If you want, I can list 20 or 30 verses saying God hates certain people

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Fastfredy0 said:

If you want, I can list 20 or 30 verses saying God hates certain people

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Thanks Fredy, I found one, I was unaware that God hated anyone, but here it is in His inspired word: (Psalm 5:5) 5 No arrogant person may stand in your presence. You hate all those who behave wickedly;

If you do know of other passages that indicate that as well, I would be interested in knowing, but don't go to great trouble, just if you happen to be aware of some sir.

Highway54 said:

If you do know of other passages that indicate that as well, I would be interested in knowing, but don't go to great trouble, just if you happen to be aware of some sir.

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Aside: There are no verse saying God loves someone that we know is in hell.
I went through my notes and cut and pasted some stuff.
It is probably useful to define God's hate/angry/wrath.
Short definition: Simply put, it is a disposition of disfavor and holy judgment against sin.
Long Winded Definition:
Strictly speaking, wrath is not an attribute of God’s nature, but is his “holy justice against sin”. Joel Beeke Reformed Systematic Theology Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]”; Job 22:2-3; Romans 11:34-35; Isaiah 40:13; Acts 17:25 See Aseity (independence) of God
Since God is impassable -- his mind cannot be emotionally disturbed -- this means that divine hate is not emotional; rather, God’s hate (wrath) is [anthropomorphic] and a volition to demonstrate his holy justice against sin. Since God is holy He is separate from all that is unclean and evil. Thus, God’s hate is an intellectual disposition of disassociation and disfavor to those who are not morally perfect (God is holy/light).
As pertaining to the elect, the absolute, innate holiness of God means that sinners have to be separated from Him unless a way can be found to constitute them holy. And that way has been provided in the merits of Jesus Christ (imputation of our sin to Christ and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the elect).

Probably duplication below ... I just cut & pasted .... a couple verses might not apply... I didn't do an exhaustive edit

• God is holy, and His absolutely holy nature requires that He hate sin wherever He finds it.
• The definition of true holiness and righteousness includes hatred for sin (Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9).
• Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You cannot look favorably on wickedness.
• Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is holy ... undefiled ... and separate from sinners (Hebrews 7:26).
• God is so pure in His holiness that angelic sin was not accepted in His sight (Job 15:15-16).
• Any man who truly fears and loves God will hate sin with Him (Proverbs 8:13; Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9).
• God’s holiness requires that He hate sin (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 73:20b; Proverbs 6:16-19; Zechariah 8:17).
• God is holy, and this character trait of God cannot be neglected (Isaiah 6:1-7; Revelation 4:8).
• There is no place in heaven for anything that defiles, for God and heaven are holy (Revelation 21:27).
• Consider how the holiness and justice of God poured out wrath on Jesus for the elect’s sins.
• If He forsook His Son and took pleasure in bruising Him ... because of our sins ... how much more shall He forsake, bruise, and hate those without faith, who continue in rabid rebellion?
• Contrary to popular belief, we are even to rejoice over God’s punishments upon the non-Christians. (Leviticus 20:23; Deuteronomy 18:12; Deuteronomy 25:16; Psalm 5:5; Psalm 11:4-5,6; Psalm 11:5; Psalm 58:10a; Proverbs 3:32a; Proverbs 6:16–19; Nahum 1:2; Hosea 9:15; John 3:36b; Romans 9:13; Romans 9:22; Romans 12:9; 1 Corinthians 16:22; Revelation 14:10, 11; Revelation 18:20).
• “God is angry with the wicked every day.” “He that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God”—not “shall abide,” but even now—”abideth on him” (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 7:11; John 3:36b). Can God “love” the one on whom His “wrath” abides? Again; is it not evident that the words “The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) marks a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love. Again; is it not plain from the words “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Romans 9:13) that God does not love everybody? (‘Hate’ might best be translated ‘rejection.’)
• God hates anything opposed to His moral character yet He is “slow to anger”. Unlike much of human anger, divine wrath is not emotional or petty, but it stems from God’s holy nature. This divine anger and hatred is directed against all who reject Jesus Christ. (Psalm 2:12; John 3:36b; Romans 1:18; Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (people persecuted by Jews); 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6-7; Colossians 3:5-6; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16-17; Revelation 19:15).
• Psalm 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.
• Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• Habakkuk 1:13 “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity:”
• John 3:36 He that believeth [the elect] on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son [the unelect] shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (KJV)
• Romans 1:18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.