1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Romans 8:16-17 " The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. And if children, then we are heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." This scripture testifies that we are, present tense(now), children of God, heirs and joint heirs.

1 John 3:2-3, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every man that has this hope in him, purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

We are at this present time children and heirs, not sometime in the future.

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes, eternal life/salvation is not conditioned on your perfect performance. Eternal life is conditioned on faith. And fruit bearing in spite of your failures is how you can know you are believing unto eternal life. But hyper-grace OSAS says you will be saved at the resurrection even if you stop believing and become a dead, fruitless branch that doesn't believe anymore.


And notice here, once again, even the hyper-grace OSAS crowd declares that believing is the ongoing condition for eternal life when they post scriptures that say that, but were posted by them to show eternal life/salvation is conditioned on nothing whatsoever:

See the "I take refuge in God" part? That's the faith--the believing--upon which eternal life/salvation is conditioned. But you posted this scripture to somehow defend the doctrine that eternal life/salvation is conditioned on absolutely nothing at all. I see this happen a lot in OSAS arguments. The very thing they claim is not true is actually right in the scriptures they post.

The only topic that gets responses here. Over and over, but who will do the will of God? Is being born by the incorruptible Word make a person no longer corruptible? Not hardly, but it took the power of the perfect Word to change a unchangeable spirit being eternal. A miracle that trumps all other Miracles. If the Word can change something eternal, how much more can the Word change any physical circumstance in and out of the body?

Who has perfect knowledge though? For God has elected and set in the body what part you will be by His election and will. We are created for his workmanship and all who believed on the Lord Jesus have been predestined from the foundation of the world to be set in place to serve Him. Free choice is still there, but sorry is the man who does not receive his election, God stating that even your body is not your own.

Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 25:28-30)

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1Co 3:14-15)

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 22:10-13)

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 8:10-12)

What is outer darkness? What if your a unprofitable servant who had no faith and did not obey all God has designed you to do? What if you don't run your race that is set before all of us? (Heb 12:1)

Kingdom means to rule with, to rule with God. Do you have a place to rule, do you have your rewards if you are not a profitable servant? What if there is no fruit on your tree? You allowed to stay, or cast in the fire after God makes every effort to get you to turn around?

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 24:45-51)

My Lord delayeth his coming, I am not ready, I have not put on my wedding attire yet, I am unprepared, I am full of unbelief.

What happens to that Servant? The same for someone who run their race and produced fruit?

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
(2Pe 1:10-11)

What happens if you don't make your calling and election sure? What if you don't run your race? You still get that entrance to rule forever with the Lord? Is that door still open for you?

Ignorance of religious fools that are blinded make arguments for OSAS not even understanding the plan and rule to come or the race that is now to be run. For they look back to the basic principles of Salvation, those that need milk again, not considering the free gift purchased them a better life and a race to run.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
(Heb 6:1-2)

It's time to wake up, there are folks out there that need healed, need set free by the power of the anointing that removes burdens and destroys yokes. There is a race to run, and every believer (Eph 4) has been given a measure of the anointing to get started with. Outer Darkness is not hell, I believe it's the place of lost reward. It beats hell, but it's not to even be considered a option for any believer. Why suffer loss? Your works will be compared to the Plan of God that He had for you, that you were created for and those works better match up with everything on your race path.

We only know in part, it's not all cut and dried, but one thing I do know. Not looking back but forward, eyes fixed on the narrow path before me.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

What does ," unless ye believed in vain", state? It is not that they quit believing, but what they had faith in was not true. Verse 15 states," Yea, and we are found false witness of God". What would make them false witnesses of God? " because we have testified of God" what was it they testified of God that would make belief to be vain? " because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:" This is the testimony that were testifying to, but if it were not true, then their belief was in vain as we see in the next phrase: " whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not." There belief was vain if Christ was not raised up by God; not that they had stopped believing.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

If reveals the condition that must be met, if you are to be saved.

The condition to being saved: Hold fast the word [Gospel Message] which I preached to you.

Paul is teaching the doctrine of Christ about the Gospel.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

The ones who are saved in the end, are those who "hold fast" the word, which is rendered "keep" in this teaching of Jesus.

"Hold fast": ie "Keep" are the same original word in the Greek.

• to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of

JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here
Yes , I agree when Jesus comes "in the air" there will be a resurrection and a judgment. A resurrection of those that belong to the Church, the body of Christ. In Revelation 20:5 it is stated, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished, this is the first resurrection.

That's one interpretation It includes the notion that Jesus will rule for 1000 years from Jerusalem over a worldly, utopian, "golden age" kingdom rather than establish the kingdom of heaven in it's fullness.
Here's another.

First, since the Revelation is primarily apocalyptic, ecstatic visions which John has attempted to render into human language, it is with great caution that anyone should take it literally.It would be wise to exercise even greater caution in the establishment of church doctrines based on those ecstatic visions.

Also, Jesus stated, around the year 34 AD that; "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Mat 28:18 RSV), so, according to Jesus, He is already reigning in heaven AND ON EARTH and has been since the first half of the first century almost 2000 years ago.

Therefore, since Christ's reign in heaven and on earth, has been going on for much longer than 1000 years, the "thousand years" mentioned in Revelation would better be understood as "a long time."

And also, Jesus will not usher in a 1000-year golden age, he will bring the kingdom of God in all its fullness.

Second, the "first resurrection", the resurrection of believers, is the one in which believers "...were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." (Ro 6:4 RSV) That's death and resurrection of believers of whom Paul said, "... you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col 3:3 RSV)

Therefore, the "first resurrection", the rising from being buried with Christ in His death in the waters of baptism and the "millennium" as the time between His having been given all authority in heaven and earth and His return, during which time we will have tribulation.

As for a "great tribulation", some 230 million people died in the wars of the 20th century (http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/handle/1903/7964/deathswarsconflictsjune52006.pdf;sequence=1) plus another 262 million murdered by tyrannical governments (http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html), I'd consider that to be a "great tribulation" since it is about 2 1/2 time s the total world population of 200 million in the first century. (http://www.businessinsider.com/what-life-was-like-in-the-first-century-2011-11)

Third, Jesus does not "come in the air." Those believers who are alive when he comes will meet him "in the air" (1 Thes 4:16-17) but Jesus comes all the way to earth at which time the ONE AND ONLY judgment will take place as described in Mat 25:31-46. Those who meet Him in the air do so in the custom of the times for people of a city to go out to meet a King coming to their city and to escort him into the city with rejoicing.

Jesus is only coming ONCE more.

He will come visible, not "secretly". "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man." (Mat 24:27 RSV)


iakov the fool


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that may result from said reading. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it.Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[FreeGrace]

Believers have eternal life and will never perish. We all know this.
That's why one must continue to believe.
Why is this so hard for you????????

There is nothing "hard" for me. The Bible says that one receives eternal life WHEN one believes. And the Bible does NOT say anything about having to continue to believe in order to continue to have eternal life.

The reason is so simple: eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23, and the gifts of God are irrevocable, per Rom 11:29.

Once the gift is received, it is irrevocable.

I know why........it's because you are indoctrinated.

Since it's your position that has no support from Scripture, it seems the indoctrination is on your side.

You have been trained to be unable to see that what Jesus said is not made untrue by the fact that what he says is only applicable to believers, not former believers.

No, your side has been indoctrinated to believe that eternal life is revocable, all the while without any Scripture to support that.

You have been taught a doctrine and the handful of isolated verses that, isolated by themselves, defend that doctrine.

I've taken nothing out of context. The context for Rom 11:29 that says that the gifts of God are irrevocable is everything Paul wrote about God's gifts IN Romans. That would obviously include spiritual gifts in 1:11, justifiation in 3:24, 5:1516,17 and eternal life in 6:23. Those are the ONLY GIFTS he did mention before he penned 11:29.

Now you need to learn the Bible.

That directly applies to your position. Your position cannot be supported from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

The substance is the "substance" of the thing you are hoping for.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1

Deny the plain words of scripture isn't going to change anything.

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Yes or No ?

It's very simple.

Can you answer a simple question ?

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?JLB

I've already answered your question. What's your point?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Your unbiblical position is that sons of God do NOT YET have salvation or eternal life, but the FACTS refute such an idea."

Opinion, with no scripture.

Wow!! Exactly right!! As I said, 'your unbiblical position is that sons of God do NOT YET have salvation or eternal life'.

And your response is DEAD ON!! Your position is opinion, with no Scripture.

Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture sums up your entire doctrine.

Kinda sounds like a broken record.

But one thing's sure: your position is exactly what has been repeated stated: opinion, with no Scripture.

Until someone from your side provides a verse that says what is being claimed, the claim is nothing more than opinion.



But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12



JLB[/QUOTE]

 

[Jim Parker]

The Bible says that one receives eternal life WHEN one believes.

Wrong.
The Bible says one receives eternal life because they believe. (John 3:14-18)

And the Bible does NOT say anything about having to continue to believe in order to continue to have eternal life.

Wrong again.
COL 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

HEB 3:14 We have come to share in Christ IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

Once the gift is received, it is irrevocable.

That's right.
It will always be a gift.
It is always available to the one receiving the gift.
It does NOT mean that the receiver can't discard or reject the gift or that God can't take the gift away.
It just means that, no matter what happens, it's still a gift.
"Once a gift always a gift." That talks about the gift, not the recipient of the gift.

Since it's your position that has no support from Scripture

His view has extensive support from scripture, all of which you choose to dismiss.

nothing new here.....

 

[smaller]

Wrong.
The Bible says one receives eternal life because they believe. (John 3:14-18)

Wrong again.
COL 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

HEB 3:14 We have come to share in Christ IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

That's right.
It will always be a gift.
It is always available to the one receiving the gift.
It does NOT mean that the receiver can't discard or reject the gift or that God can't take the gift away.
It just means that, no matter what happens, it's still a gift.
"Once a gift always a gift." That talks about the gift, not the recipient of the gift.

His view has extensive support from scripture, all of which you choose to dismiss.

nothing new here.....

1 Thessalonians 5:24
Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Most of the "you can lose your salvation crowd" ignore the faithfulness of Christ towards those He has called. And their positions turn faith into a law i.e. you must have faith, OR ELSE. You must continue in belief, OR ELSE.

Scripture teaches us that the Holy Ghost prompts us to call upon Jesus to save us, 1 Cor. 12:3, and enters our hearts, to do exactly that, Gal. 6:18. End of fact. None of your positions are capable of rubbing Jesus OUT of the picture.

This notion that we believe in our own faith to be saved or believe in our belief to be saved has ZERO to do with having A Savior who saves. Those alternatives are misplaced notions that ignore The Savior's workings and blame the person, entirely. It was never on the table for anyone to save themselves to start with. They're not The Savior. How did it manage to land there afterwards? Nothing more than typical legalism.

 

[JohnDB]

Okay guys,
These responses are getting rather heated and personal.

Let's prove points with scripture and not use expressions like "You're Wrong".

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"The Bible says that one receives eternal life WHEN one believes."

Wrong.
The Bible says one receives eternal life because they believe. (John 3:14-18)

Why stop at John 3? Let's advance to John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. " NIV

One cannot believe until they hear. And WHEN they believe, they HAVE eternal life. Yes, one receives eternal life BECAUSE one has believed. My point was WHEN one receives eternal life. Do you disagree?

I said this:
"And the Bible does NOT say anything about having to continue to believe in order to continue to have eternal life."

Wrong again.
COL 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

OK, let's examine what was actually said here.

The conditional phrase "if you continue in your faith" is NOT tied to salvation, as has been claimed repeatedly, but to the phrase "to present you holy, and blameless and above reproach in His sight".

iow, ONLY IF one continues in the faith will one be presented holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight.

This verse has nothing to do with continuing to believe in order to continue to be saved.

I think the error was to find the phrase "if you continue in your faith" and assume that was about salvation.

HEB 3:14 We have come to share in Christ IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

To "share in Christ" refers to fellowship, not relationship, as commonly thought.

I said this:
"Once the gift is received, it is irrevocable."

That's right.

It will always be a gift.
It is always available to the one receiving the gift.

When I noted 'once received' means ownership has been achieved. It's now possessed by the one who has believed.

It does NOT mean that the receiver can't discard or reject the gift or that God can't take the gift away.

Yes, it does. And for this exact reason: there are NO verses that teach that one can "discard" the gift that has been received.

And because Paul SAID that God's gifts are irrevocable, it MOST ASSUREDLY DOES mean that "God can't take the gift away".

Your statement reveals that the meaning of "irrevocable" hasn't been understood.

It just means that, no matter what happens, it's still a gift.

"Once a gift always a gift." That talks about the gift, not the recipient of the gift.

Again, this only shows that the meaning of "irrevocable" is not being understood.

I said this:
"Since it's your position that has no support from Scripture"

His view has extensive support from scripture, all of which you choose to dismiss.

My statement stands because none of this so-called "extensive support" from Scripture plainly tells us that salvation or eternal life can be lost. The ONLY WAY to come to that conclusion is to make a whole bunch of assumptions.

nothing new here.....

That's correct. But to the point of the OP, those who have believed have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED. That clearly means that the born again one WILL NOT PERISH.

And, how 'bout that?! That's exactly what Jesus said twice:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him SHALL NOT PERISH but have eternal life." NIV

John 10:28
"I give them eternal life, and they SHALL NOT PERISH; no one can snatch them out of my hand." NIV

These verses refute the idea that anyone who has received the irrevocable gift of eternal life can ever perish. Clearly.

 

[JLB]

But one thing's sure: your position is exactly what has been repeated stated: opinion, with no Scripture.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

...become sons of God.


Now we are sons of God through faith, and have the hope of salvation.

• For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

• Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

We have the hope of eternal life.

• He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7

...we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

• 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

Everlasting life comes at the end, for those who have their fruit unto holiness, without which no man will see God.

• Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: Hebrews 12:14

Salvation is the end result of those who continue in the faith, steadfast to the end.

• ...receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

JLB

 

[JLB]

I've already answered your question. What's your point?

Where is the post where you answered this question?

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1

Denying the plain words of scripture isn't going to change anything.

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Yes or No ?



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The conditional phrase "if you continue in your faith" is NOT tied to salvation, as has been claimed repeatedly, but to the phrase "to present you holy, and blameless and above reproach in His sight".

iow, ONLY IF one continues in the faith will one be presented holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight.

This verse has nothing to do with continuing to believe in order to continue to be saved.

As much as the Protestant church wants to avoid it, the truth remains: There is no eternal life with the Lord in the next life if you are not now being made holy in how you act because of your faith in Christ.

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)

The church has been deceived into thinking that the faith that does nothing, changes nothing, is nothing, is the faith that will save them. This is in complete and utter contradiction to the Bible. But as I say, the church has been trained to gloss right over the passages that teach the necessity to have a faith that changes your behavior in order for that faith to be of the quality that can save. They see those passages and instantly think to themselves, "oh, that can't be what it means, because once you are saved you are always saved", and off they go into the darkness of their deception while the day of Judgment draws ever closer.

 

[JLB]

As much as the Protestant church wants to avoid it, the truth remains: There is no eternal life with the Lord in the next life if you are not now being made holy in how you act because of your faith in Christ.

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)

The church has been deceived into thinking that the faith that does nothing, changes nothing, is nothing, is the faith that will save them. This is in complete and utter contradiction to the Bible. But as I say, the church has been trained to gloss right over the passages that teach the necessity to have a faith that changes your behavior in order for that faith to be of the quality that can save. They see those passages and instantly think to themselves, "oh, that can't be what it means, because once you are saved you are always saved", and off they go into the darkness of their deception while the day of Judgment draws ever closer.

Where is the LIKE button!!!

 

[smaller]

As much as the Protestant church wants to avoid it, the truth remains: There is no eternal life with the Lord in the next life if you are not now being made holy in how you act because of your faith in Christ.

Well, sure there is. Even in your position there is eternal life for the unsaved. It just happens to be unpleasant in the extreme. Rev. 14:10.

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)

The church has been deceived into thinking that the faith that does nothing, changes nothing, is nothing, is the faith that will save them.

There is no "list" of to do's given in the scriptures where we can "earn" our own way into eternal life. No one can make that kind of produce on their own, in and of themselves.

Eternal life can only be a gift of God in Christ, a one way granting. We can't stand before God, demanding Him of such, based on our own works. Scripture doesn't teach what you claim at all.

John 10:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Why are your positions working so hard to prove contrary?

This is in complete and utter contradiction to the Bible.

Works salvation didn't pan out for the people of the O.T. and it won't pan out in the N.T. There isn't a person of us who believes that "earned" eternal life. We never had it "in us" to earn to start with and we don't have it in our own power to earn it afterwards.

No man can stand before God in Christ justified Perfectly by their own works, and command God, even DEMAND God to give them eternal life. That entire notion is ludicrous. Just who do such people think they are? That is the height of prideful arrogance.

Faith understands our salvation, entirely, as A GIFT that is given to us. And one we should be thankful for. Not questioning it. Not doubting it. Not trying to RIP it away from others.

But as I say, the church has been trained to gloss right over the passages that teach the necessity to have a faith that changes your behavior

We are not and can not be saved by "behavior." Paul tells us openly of his own "behavior" showing and proving quite solidly that it's impossible. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19, Romans 7:21, ALL show quite the opposite case being made by Paul. Paul rips away any shreds of evidence or notion that such, even as himself, post salvation, can "earn" salvation.

When an Apostle stands, claiming publicly, to be the chief of sinners after salvation, 1 Tim. 1:15, any notions of "earning anything" are tossed entirely out the window for anyone claiming to stand on "better ground" based on "behavior." Go STAND where PAUL stood!

We avoid evil because we do not like or enjoy being it's slave. But to say we don't have that issue of evil present with us, internally, to contend with isn't true at all.

Can the evil present within any person be justified? Never. Not ever will this happen nor can it happen. And when we deny this internal reality we are turned into petty liars by that evil present with us. IF we say we don't have "evil present" with us, we're proven hypocrites. "There but for the Grace of God GO I" is a long standing Protestant claim and tradition.

When we try to stand justified by our own works, what will God Say?

Ahem, "about that evil present within you, what do you have to say about that?"

Do you really think any of us will get by with saying evil present with us was justified? That any of us can stand there and say evil present wasn't there? I'd think God would laugh out loud at such claims.

in order for that faith to be of the quality that can save. They see those passages and instantly think to themselves, "oh, that can't be what it means, because once you are saved you are always saved", and off they go into the darkness of their deception while the day of Judgment draws ever closer.

The notions that man can be saved by "their own morality" is utter nonsense in the light of scriptures disclosures that evil is present with us, regardless. Romans 7:21 alone shreds any such notions of morality. So does Gal. 5:17. So does Romans 3:9. So does Gal. 3:22.

The only reasonable conclusion in all of this is the very long standing understanding of the Protestants: That we are sinners saved by faith in Christ, through Gods Grace and Mercy in Christ.

It's the only honest ground to stand on. This is the very basis why Protestants departed from the works for salvation, maybe, iffy, you never know salvation proponents.

Salvation by works can never logically be anything more than a maybe, maybe not standing. Anyone standing there can fall in an instant. And they know it. The reality of that kind of standing dangles those held by it over the potential pit of hell their entire life. I wouldn't call that freedom in Christ by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[FreeGrace]

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12...become sons of God.

Now we are sons of God through faith, and have the hope of salvation.

• For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

• Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

• Gal 3:26 says it all: NOW we are the sons of God. Not "later".

We have the hope of eternal life.

We have the confident expectation of our life in eternity after this life on earth is over.

Jesus said we HAVE (in the present tense) when we believe in John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" NIV

...receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

No one has yet proven that "end of your faith" means "end of your life".

In fact, the Greek word is telos (tel'-os);

from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically, an impost or levy (as paid):

OK, let's boil this down:
1. "a definite point or goal" means the object of our faith, which is Jesus Christ. The "end of our faith" means the definite point when we have placed our faith in Him for salvation. Not end of life.
2. "the point aimed at as a limit" means basically the same thing; Jesus Christ is the object of our faith. Not end of life.
3. "the conclusion of an act" means when knowledge of the gospel is believed. Not end of life.
4. "immediate result" is HAVING salvation WHEN one believes in Christ. Not end of life.

Therefore, there is no reason to equate "end of your faith" to equate to "end of your life".

There is no justification in such a view.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where is the post where you answered this question?

I suggest reading the posts of those who receive your questions.

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Yes, of course I do.

Denying the plain words of scripture isn't going to change anything.

That's exactly what I've been trying to get across to all those who mistakenly think that salvation can be lost.

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Yes or No ?

Again, for the 3rd time, yes, of course.

Now, what's your point?

 

[FreeGrace]

As much as the Protestant church wants to avoid it, the truth remains: There is no eternal life with the Lord in the next life if you are not now being made holy in how you act because of your faith in Christ.

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)

You've misunderstood this verse as much as all the other verses you've posted that DON'T support your claims.

 

[WIP]

How about providing explanations when you post per the rules of this forum.

Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” or any other similar phrase.

I see this has already been posted so this is the second time.