1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[Jethro Bodine]

I've taken nothing out of context. The context for Rom 11:29 that says that the gifts of God are irrevocable is everything Paul wrote about God's gifts IN Romans. That would obviously include spiritual gifts in 1:11, justifiation in 3:24, 5:1516,17 and eternal life in 6:23. Those are the ONLY GIFTS he did mention before he penned 11:29.

You've completely ignored the context in your interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB.

The issue is not what the gifts and calling of God are that are irrevocable (Romans 11:29 NASB). Paul has the gifts and calling of God. The reason he has them is because those gifts and calling are irrevocable, because God promised the Patriarchs that He would give them to Abraham's descendants.

God's still giving them out, he did not revoke them. That's the point. Paul is using himself and others as proof of that. That's what the context of Romans 11 says. It says NOTHING about a believer never being able to lose eternal life, or any gift, because they are irrevocable in that sense.

You have not produced one shred of contextual evidence from Romans to support that disconnected, unrightly divided interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB. But I have provided the plain evidence found right in the chapter to show that what I'm saying the gifts and calling of God not being revocable means. It's so easy to see, it's as plain as day.

"2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
1 I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
26and so all Israel will be saved...
28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:2,1,26,28-29 NASB)

But I understand how the OSAS indoctrination will cause a person to gloss right over the context and make it mean OSAS (which is not even the subject of the passage). Romans 11 is not a passage that teaches that a person can not lose eternal life because it is irrevocable. But it is a passage to show that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable, because it was promised to the Patriarchs, as evidenced by people, like Paul, still receiving those gifts and calling. That interpretation is found right in the passage and is plain as day.

 

[Jim Parker]

You've completely ignored the context in your interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB.

The issue is not what the gifts and calling of God are that are irrevocable (Romans 11:29 NASB). Paul has the gifts and calling of God. The reason he has them is because those gifts and calling are irrevocable, because God promised the Patriarchs that He would give them to Abraham's descendants.

God's still giving them out, he did not revoke them. That's the point. Paul is using himself and others as proof of that. That's what the context of Romans 11 says. It says NOTHING about a believer never being able to lose eternal life, or any gift, because they are irrevocable in that sense.

You have not produced one shred of contextual evidence from Romans to support that disconnected, unrightly divided interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB. But I have provided the plain evidence found right in the chapter to show that what I'm saying the gifts and calling of God not being revocable means. It's so easy to see, it's as plain as day.

"2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
1 I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
26and so all Israel will be saved...
28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:2,1,26,28-29 NASB)

But I understand how the OSAS indoctrination will cause a person to gloss right over the context and make it mean OSAS (which is not even the subject of the passage). Romans 11 is not a passage that teaches that a person can not lose eternal life because it is irrevocable. But it is a passage to show that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable, because it was promised to the Patriarchs, as evidenced by people, like Paul, still receiving those gifts and calling. That interpretation is found right in the passage and is plain as day.

Amen!
It as as plain as day only to those who want to see the day.


iakov the fool



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that may result from said reading. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it.Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I've taken nothing out of context. The context for Rom 11:29 that says that the gifts of God are irrevocable is everything Paul wrote about God's gifts IN Romans. That would obviously include spiritual gifts in 1:11, justifiation in 3:24, 5:1516,17 and eternal life in 6:23. Those are the ONLY GIFTS he did mention before he penned 11:29."

You've completely ignored the context in your interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB.

What I posted is the plain truth. It's your claim that can't be supported from Scripture. When asked what these so-called "gifts of God to Israel" refer to, no one can answer the question FROM THE CONTEXT. Why? Because Paul NEVER described anything to Israel as a
gift of God.

It is your position that has NO CONTEXT.

The issue is not what the gifts and calling of God are that are irrevocable (Romans 11:29 NASB).

That is precisely the issue. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. And Paul HAD ALREADY noted 3 of them previously in Romans.

Paul has the gifts and calling of God.

Every believer has them. So what?

The reason he has them is because those gifts and calling are irrevocable, because God promised the Patriarchs that He would give them to Abraham's descendants.

So, just ignore the 3 gifts of God that Paul had ALREADY noted?

God's still giving them out, he did not revoke them. That's the point.

Here is the point: when God gives out any of His gifts, He does NOT revoke them. And Paul noted 3 of God's gifts in the body of his letter to the Romans, so even those gifts are irrevocable. Which includes justification and eternal life.

Paul is using himself and others as proof of that. That's what the context of Romans 11 says. It says NOTHING about a believer never being able to lose eternal life, or any gift, because they are irrevocable in that sense.

There is no support for your "in that sense" comment. The meaning is very clear; God's gifts are irrevocable, and eternal life is one of them.

You have not produced one shred of contextual evidence from Romans to support that disconnected, unrightly divided interpretation of Romans 11:29 NASB.

There is nothing to interpret in Rom 11:29. The statement is clear enough. And it directly refers to ALL of God's gifts that Paul HAD ALREADY noted previously in Romans. So your claim that the use of Rom 6:23 is "disconnected" or "unrightly divided" interpretation is bogus to the hilt.

But I have provided the plain evidence found right in the chapter to show that what I'm saying the gifts and calling of God not being revocable means.

OK, one more time. Just what are these so-called "gifts of God" in ch 11? Since Paul NEVER even used the word 'gifts' in ch 11, you've got no support for your unreasonable claim.

It's so easy to see, it's as plain as day.

Yes it is. Yet, you're not seeing it.

I've shown from solid logic that eternal life is an irrevocable gift.

"2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
1 I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
26and so all Israel will be saved...
28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:2,1,26,28-29 NASB)

Once again, the word 'gifts' doesn't appear anywhere in ch 11 before v.29. So just what are these gifts that ARE irrevocable?

So, please answer this question: did Paul consider the gift of eternal life as a gift of God to Israel as well as to himself?

 

[JLB]

I suggest reading the posts of those who receive your questions.

Another non answer.

• Gal 3:26 says it all: NOW we are the sons of God. Not "later".

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

Now is not in this verse.


Now we have have, which is the hope of salvation.

Now we have the hope of salvation.

Now we are sons of God by faith, in Jesus Christ, in which we will have become sons of God like the angels if we attain the resurrection of the dead.

Then we will have eternal life, and will not die anymore... if we continue in the faith to the end.

Now.... faith is the substance of things hoped for.


Do you have faith in Jesus Christ?



JLB

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"I've taken nothing out of context. The context for Rom 11:29 that says that the gifts of God are irrevocable is everything Paul wrote about God's gifts IN Romans. That would obviously include spiritual gifts in 1:11, justifiation in 3:24, 5:1516,17 and eternal life in 6:23. Those are the ONLY GIFTS he did mention before he penned 11:29."

If you still have the promise of being called to salvation, then obviously you are not saved... since you still have the promise of being called.

That's what is obvious.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Another non answer.

Your posts are full of those.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

Now is not in this verse.

It sure was when you first posted the verse. However, that is hardly the issue. What TENSE is "you are all sons of God"?

Now we are sons of God by faith, in Jesus Christ, in which we will have become sons of God like the angels if we attain the resurrection of the dead.

There it is again: NOW at the very beginning of your sentence. Thank you.

Then we will have eternal life, and will not die anymore... if we continue in the faith to the end.

I see that your view is completely different than what our Lord Himself said about HAVING eternal life in John 5:24 -
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" NIV Do you not grasp what the present tense means?

Why do you disagree with Jesus??

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ?

How many times are you going to harass me with this question, which I've answered at least 3 times. If you're not reading my responses, then just QUIT responding to my posts.

If I get this question one more time, I will report your VIOLATION of forum rules.

Yes, I have faith in Jesus Christ. Now, why haven't you answered my question about what your point is?

Like I noted at the top of this post, your posts are full of non answers.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I've taken nothing out of context. The context for Rom 11:29 that says that the gifts of God are irrevocable is everything Paul wrote about God's gifts IN Romans. That would obviously include spiritual gifts in 1:11, justifiation in 3:24, 5:1516,17 and eternal life in 6:23. Those are the ONLY GIFTS he did mention before he penned 11:29."

If you still have the promise of being called to salvation, then obviously you are not saved... since you still have the promise of being called.

That's what is obvious.JLB

Obviously, you're quite confused.

The gifts of God in Rom 11:29 are not "promises" as being insinuated here. They are actual gifts.

And Paul noted 3 of them in the context of the letter to the Romans:
1. spiritual gifts in 1:11, which are irrevocable.
2. justification in 3:24 and 5:1516,7, which is irrevocable.
3. eternal life in 6:23, which is irrevocable.

Paul said nothing to exclude these specific gifts from 11:29.

 

[JLB]

1. "a definite point or goal" means the object of our faith, which is Jesus Christ. The "end of our faith" means the definite point when we have placed our faith in Him for salvation. Not end of life.

Do you believe now, you are at the end of your faith?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I see that your view is completely different than what our Lord Himself said about HAVING eternal life in John 5:24 -

No it's the same.

Believers have eternal life by faith, which is the hope of eternal life.

Are you immortal now, or can you still die?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Once again, the word 'gifts' doesn't appear anywhere in ch 11 before v.29.

You seem to not even realize that vs. 29 is the continuation of the sentence started in vs. 28.

28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel--see vs.26) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29 NASB)

What is the 'for' there for in verse 29? It's to show that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable in regard to the Israelites being able to be saved. Paul is a saved, born again Israelite (Romans 11:1-2 NASB), which proves that the gifts and calling have not been revoked even though the Israelites as a nation have been cut out of the tree.

But you are cutting the sentence off at vs. 29 and claiming that Paul is saying that once a person has eternal life they can not have it revoked. A believer believing, then potentially not believing is not even the subject of the passage, or the sentence! What the sentence does say is the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable for the Israelites for the sake of the promise he made to the Patriarchal fathers Abraham, Issac, and Jacob (Israel). He can't revoke the promise of the Israelites being saved. He promised that on oath to the Patriarchs, "and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” 27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” (Romans 11:26-27 NASB capitals in original).

Paul, a born again Israelite, is proof that God is keeping His promise and that He did not revoke the gifts and calling he promised to the fathers. But you have made the one part of the sentence (vs.29) to mean that once a person believes and has eternal life they can never ever have it revoked. That interpretation completely and utterly ignores not only the context of the whole passage, but even the context of the sentence you snipped verse 29 from!

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe now, you are at the end of your faith?JLB

I sure am. And I explained WHY I am. And no one has shown my explanation to be in error.

If anyone thinks so, they can provide a detailed explanation of why it is in error.

Or simply disagree with my explanation. Which would prove nothing.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I see that your view is completely different than what our Lord Himself said about HAVING eternal life in John 5:24 -"

This was in response to your claim that eternal life is given at the end of one's life.

No it's the same.

How can your view be the same since the Lord said that one HAS eternal life when one believes, which is clearly NOT your position???

Believers have eternal life by faith, which is the hope of eternal life.

This statement is contradictory. If one HAS eternal life, then they can't "hope" for it. If they are hoping for it, they DON'T yet have it.

But again, the problem continues to be how one understands what one is hoping for. Clearly we can't be hoping for the gift of eternal life, since Jesus SAID those who believe HAVE it. Meaning HAVE IT ALREADY, not something to look forward to when we die, which seems to be how your position understands it.

Because Jesus said those who believe HAVE eternal life, why is there still all this kicking at the goads?? He was clear enough.

Are you immortal now, or can you still die?
JLB

No offense, but this is quite a silly question. Or worse. Of course I'm not now. But I'm sure confidently expectant of life after death, when I then will be immortal.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Once again, the word 'gifts' doesn't appear anywhere in ch 11 before v.29."

You seem to not even realize that vs. 29 is the continuation of the sentence started in vs. 28.

It seems you're not realizing that v.29 refers to all of God's gifts, not just some as yet un-named so-called gifts of God to Israel, as if they are only for Israel.

28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel--see vs.26) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29 NASB)

See? No mention of "gifts" in v.28. And Israel being "enemies for your sake", and "beloved for the aske of the fathers" has NOTHING TO DO with God's gifts.

Why in the world would anyone think so?

What is the 'for' there for in verse 29? It's to show that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable in regard to the Israelites being able to be saved.

There is NO WAY to equate "gifts of God" to being an ability to be saved. Gifts are things. And Paul described 3 of them previously in Romans. Your failed attempt to force v.29 to be about some "ability to be saved" is way off course.

No where in Scripture is salvation about ability, or having an ability to believe even. There is no evidence for your notions from the Bible.

Paul is a saved, born again Israelite (Romans 11:1-2 NASB), which proves that the gifts and calling have not been revoked even though the Israelites as a nation have been cut out of the tree.

Being saved means that Paul HAS eternal life, which is a gift of God. And that gift is irrevocable.

Again, the mistake in your position is to assume that God's gift is only a promise of what is the actual gift.

But you are cutting the sentence off at vs. 29 and claiming that Paul is saying that once a person has eternal life they can not have it revoked.

Let me say this as clearly as can be said: the gifts of God are irrevocable. That MEANS all of God's gifts. Not just some pick and choose ones that you'd prefer to choose. And among the gifts of God is eternal life, which is described CLEARLY as "the gift of God" in 6:23.

It seems that you just don't like the conclusion of what Rom 11:29 actually teaches; that eternal life is irrevocable, simply because eternal life is a gift of God, and the gifts of God are irrevocable.

Your views continually remind me of the biblical phrase "eyes that cannot see". It's right in front of everyone and yet some just don't want to see it.

A believer believing, then potentially not believing is not even the subject of the passage, or the sentence!

What would make anyone think that it has to be the subject of the passage. The FACT ALONE is enough. But, again, it's the obvious conclusion that has been rejected.

What the sentence does say is the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable for the Israelites for the sake of the promise he made to the Patriarchal fathers Abraham, Issac, and Jacob (Israel).

Since NOTHING has been said about these mysterious so-called "gifts of God to Israel", your claim is empty. Without merit. Unsubstantiated. Void.

He can't revoke the promise of the Israelites being saved.

This isn't about any promise. It's about ACTUAL gifts of God. Which Paul previously described in Romans before 11:29. And eternal life is one of those gifts. All of which are irrevocable. That means eternal life too.

I don't believe that rejecting the plain truth of Scripture is wise.

He promised that on oath to the Patriarchs, "and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” 27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” (Romans 11:26-27 NASB capitals in original).

Is this described anywhere in the Bible as a gift of God? No. Case closed on that idea.

Paul, a born again Israelite, is proof that God is keeping His promise and that He did not revoke the gifts and calling he promised to the fathers.

And one of the gifts is eternal life. Irrevocable.

But you have made the one part of the sentence (vs.29) to mean that once a person believes and has eternal life they can never ever have it revoked.

It's not what I've made. It's what Paul SAID. When he said that the gifts of God are irrevocable, he was referring to all of God's gifts.

Especially since he did NOT exclude any of the gifts that he previously had described.

That interpretation completely and utterly ignores not only the context of the whole passage,

but even the context of the sentence you snipped verse 29 from!

The claim that I snipped anything out of the Bible is ridiculous and has not been shown.

Rom 11:29 refers to all of God's gifts. Get.used.to.it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Being saved means that Paul HAS eternal life, which is a gift of God. And that gift is irrevocable.

Again, the mistake in your position is to assume that God's gift is only a promise of what is the actual gift.

No.
EDITED

Paul is a saved Israelite. Of course he has eternal life. The point he's making is that proves that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. But you are interpreting "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 NASB) to mean once a person is saved they can never lose that salvation. That interpretation is completely and utterly unsupported by the context of the sentence and passage it appears in.

What I'm saying it means is what Paul himself says "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" means. It's right there in the passage. You can't ignore the very sentence, and the passage, in which "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" is in. That's called 'not rightly dividing the word of God'.

"...all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:26-29 NASB)

 

[JLB]

How can your view be the same since the Lord said that one HAS eternal life when one believes, which is clearly NOT your position???

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29


he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life. John 5:24

Those who believe have eternal life. Not those who believe for a while, then return to unbelieving.

The Youngs literal translation, brings out a fuller understanding of what is being said.

`Verily, verily, I say to you -- He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life. John 5:24 YLT

Those who believe the message of the Gospel, are those who do what the Gospel says... Repent and believe the Gospel.

Hearing the word, and then doing what you hear is how people are saved.

It is not those who hear only, but those who who are doers of [obey] the word that are saved.

Those who do not obey the Gospel, will suffer the wrath of God.

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

As we read the context of what Jesus taught we come across these words...

• in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

This is what Paul taught as well.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8


Paul:

• to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Jesus:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Your pattern of projecting your doctrine into the word of God, makes God's word of no effect.

Paul taught the same thing as Jesus.

Those who believe and continue to believe, show forth this belief in what they do.
Those who believe, then no longer believe show forth their unbelieving lifestyle by their actions as well.


Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22-23



JLB

 

[JLB]

The claim that I snipped anything out of the Bible is ridiculous and has not been shown.

Rom 11:29 refers to all of God's gifts. Get.used.to.it.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

This verse doesn't say "all" the gifts are irrevocable.

That's nonsense.

It says the gifts and calling, together, are irrevocable.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

This verse doesn't say "all" the gifts are irrevocable.

That's nonsense.

It says the gifts and calling, together, are irrevocable.JLB

Nonsense? If not all, then just how many gifts was Paul referring to? Specifically?

I ask specifically, only because had already SPECIFICALLY described 3 of God's gifts in the body of the letter to the Romans, yet your position is that Paul could not have been referring to any of them. And all without any evidence for support.

The problem with your position is that there is no support from context for it. Paul NEVER described anything Israel had as "gifts".

What we do know is that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. And since Paul didn't modify "gifts" with any word to limit its meaning, such as:
"a few gifts"
"some gifts"
"a lot of gifts"
"many gifts"
"most gifts",

it's quite obvious that he did mean ALL gifts. Or he would have clarified, especially since he SPECIFICALLY described 3 of God's gifts before he said that "the gifts of God are irrevocable".

iow, he made no attempt to limit these "gifts of God" to be limited to whatever it is that some may "see" in ch 11 as referring to Israel.

Unless there is clear evidence from Paul himself that he never meant to include those previously mentioned SPECIFIC gifts in Romans, there is no reason to exclude them from Rom 11:29.

 

[WIP]

Is there anyone on earth today that does not sin?

 

[smaller]

Underline:

Matt 13:20-23 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Scriptural harmony is a beautiful pursuit. Every believer who first reads the parables above automatically DENIES that those parable adverse facts apply to ourselves, particularly the first "3" stages of those parables. But Jesus tells us otherwise. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 applies every Word of God to "all" of us. Tough place to get to, granted.

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Ah yes. But you see I'm not personally aware of anyone becoming "sinless" after salvation, are you? In fact Paul makes the exact opposite claim, personally, in 1 Tim. 1:15, showing himself as the chief of sinners, not as "used to be" but "I AM."

Tough gig, ain't it?

The notion of 'continuing in sin' is belied by the fact of actually "being" sinners, regardless. We can't even say we "have," present tense, NO SIN, and be in truth. 1 John 1:8.

Paul shows indwelling sin to be in his flesh. He didn't rid himself of that fact after salvation. Romans 7:17-21. Gal. 5:17.

All of this and much much more proves quite conclusively that we are saved by faith in Christ on a completely unmerited on our part basis, through Gods Mercy Expressed in Christ.

The entire notion that we saved ourselves or garnered our own salvation was never on the table for us to get in the first place and it is even less so after salvation.

The only measure after salvation is who is speaking truthfully, according to the scriptures regarding these adverse personal matters and who is only kidding themselves.

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul is a saved Israelite. Of course he has eternal life. The point he's making is that proves that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

Exactly!! Paul had eternal life, which is a gift of God. And his point is that God's gifts are irrevocable. What is the conclusion from this fact?

But you are interpreting "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 NASB) to mean once a person is saved they can never lose that salvation.

What else can it mean?

That interpretation is completely and utterly unsupported by the context of the sentence and passage it appears in.

It doesn't take an "interpretation" to understand Paul's point.

You've already acknowledged that Paul had eternal life, which is a gift of God. And you've acknowledged that God's gifts are irrevocable. Yet there remains a very strong resistance to put those facts together and admit that eternal life is irrevocable.

Regarding "context", EVERYTHING Paul wrote in Romans is in the SAME CONTEXT. So when he specifically noted 3 gifts of God before he penned 11:29, we can be sure he was including ALL of those specific gifts in 11:29.

Especially since he DID NOT exclude any of them.