1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[smaller]

Another deceitful attempt at mis-representing my words and the word of God.

Where do you see any such "self effort" or the promoting of "my abilities", or "saving myself".

Faith is the action of obedience, which comes from hearing the Voice of God and obeying what He says.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah built the Ark.
Noah built the Ark by faith, as he responded with obedience to what God told him to do.

There had never been an Ark built before, as there had never been rain before, which tells us God Himself guided Noah with grace and wisdom to do what he could not do otherwise.

This is the life of faith; not "self effort" or "self salvation", but the life of faith. The obedience of faith.

I will ask you not to misrepresent me and what I say, by twisting my words.

Here is what I posted:

There are no such words of "self effort" or "self salvation" or "my abilities" mentioned.

You are a deceiver and a mocker, sir.

Your theological positions demand that Jesus is painted out of the picture. I don't find that a credible Christian theological portrait, myself. No, not at ALL.

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Perhaps you missed that particular Command?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Great, we are heir's and joint heirs with Christ, which means we are to reign as kings with Him.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

and again

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood [ referring to the Church]
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Revelation 5:9-10

Even though we are joint heirs with Him, and reign with Him as kings, He is still our King, and reigns and rules as King of kings.

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” Revelation 17:14

• Jesus is our King.
• Jesus is the King of the Kingdom of God.

We are transferred into His kingdom, when we repent and believe the gospel, as we are delivered from the dominion of darkness.


If Jesus is not our King, then who is?



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

What did the inscription on the cross state? Matthew 27:37 " And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS." It didn't say king of the church. The church has no king, but we do have a savior who is to be King of the Jews during the millennium.

Your last statement: " If Jesus is not our King, then who is? We, the church, have no king, but we do have the bridegroom who is King of the Jews, and we will rule and reign with him.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Great, we are heir's and joint heirs with Christ, which means we are to reign as kings with Him.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

and again

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood [ referring to the Church]
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Revelation 5:9-10

Even though we are joint heirs with Him, and reign with Him as kings, He is still our King, and reigns and rules as King of kings.

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” Revelation 17:14

• Jesus is our King.
• Jesus is the King of the Kingdom of God.

We are transferred into His kingdom, when we repent and believe the gospel, as we are delivered from the dominion of darkness.


If Jesus is not our King, then who is?



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

You have no scripture that states that we are 'KINGS", but there is scripture that states we are the BRIDE OF CHRIST.

 

[Jim Parker]

If that is how you believe, that is what you believe.

It's what Jesus specifically said.
Why would I not believe Jesus?

It is not my job to convict you of wrong interpretation

John 5:26-29 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
How do you interpret that in any way other than -
(1) Jesus will be the Judge of mankind. (Also see Mat 25:31-46)
(2) All who have died will be raised.
(3) His judgment is (a) they that have done good, will be raised unto the resurrection of life and (b) and they that have done evil, will be raised unto the resurrection of damnation.

I don't know how it could be any clearer.

Mat 13:14
“And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

 

[dirtfarmer]

It's what Jesus specifically said.
Why would I not believe Jesus?


John 5:26-29 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
How do you interpret that in any way other than -
(1) Jesus will be the Judge of mankind. (Also see Mat 25:31-46)
(2) All who have died will be raised.
(3) His judgment is (a) they that have done good, will be raised unto the resurrection of life and (b) and they that have done evil, will be raised unto the resurrection of damnation.

I don't know how it could be any clearer.

Mat 13:14
“And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

In Matthew 25:31-46, show the resurrection. There is no resurrection of the dead, but a gathering of nations. Judgment will as to how the nations treated God's chosen people during the tribulation.
There are 3 types of people: Sheep, goat, and brethren. The nations are judged as to how they treated the "brethren" during the tribulation. If they fed them, clothed them, gave them drink, or visited the sick; these are the sheep. Those that didn't do those things for the "brethren" are the goats. I don't see faith the sheep, nor do I see no faith in the goats. It is completely works based.

Matthew 13:14 is speaking to the Jewish people, not to the world.

 

[Jim Parker]

There is no resurrection of the dead,

1Co 15:12-17 (NKJV) Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.

For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile;
you are still in your sins!​

 

[dirtfarmer]

1Co 15:12-17 (NKJV) Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.

For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile;
you are still in your sins!​

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

You are being deceptive. In the header you only quote a portion of what I posted. It states: In Matthew 25:31-46 show the resurrection. There is no resurrection of the dead, but a gathering of the nations."

So, again, please show a resurrection in Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"the point is: when is the "end of your faith"? I've already shown the Greek word and its meaning."

Yes, and Salvation is received at the end of our faith.

How does this answer the question? WHEN is the "end of your faith"? Do you know?

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

WHEN is the "end of your faith"?

As long as you are in this life, there is the opportunity for you to be tested, that the genuineness of your faith can be evaluated, and hopefully be shown to give honor to God.

OK, so in your mind, "end of your faith" means "end of your life". Interesting. But wrong. That's not what the Greek word means, as previously shown.

So it is with us who believe and have not yet seen... whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9

The verse does NOT say "end of your life", which would be a misinterpretation of the Greek word. As previously shown.

 

[FreeGrace]

Peter is contrasting the efficacy of the imperishable word of the gospel preached (vs.25), and it's strength in redemption, with the perishable things of the first covenant and it's weakness in redemption (vs.18).

So your view seems to be that in the OT people were born again of corruptible or perishable seed? Seriously? How does that make any sense? v.23 is about being born again, which is a spiritual birth. No one was said to be born again by the Law.

If that's your position, where is that found in Scripture?

No issue of OSAS is being raised in the passage.

Those who don't want to see, won't see.

It does not address the issue of the necessity either way to continue to believe the imperishable word, or not continue to believe it in order to be saved. We have other scriptures that show us the necessity to continue to believe (hold fast) the imperishable word of the gospel in order to be presently saved.

No one has yet provided any verse that teaches that one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved.

Truth always has evidence on its side.

 

[JLB]

I asked this:
"the point is: when is the "end of your faith"? I've already shown the Greek word and its meaning."

The "end of your faith" in any instance whereby you are believing for something, whether a spouse, or a healing or the salvation of your soul, is the manifestation of the thing you have been hoping for that is not yet seen.

The end result of your faith is attaining that which you have hoped.

How does this answer the question? WHEN is the "end of your faith"? Do you know?

See above.

WHEN is the "end of your faith"?

See above.

OK, so in your mind, "end of your faith" means "end of your life". Interesting. But wrong. That's not what the Greek word means, as previously shown.

The end of your life, if it was spent believing, and holding fast to the word that was preached to you.

For when a believer dies [their body], they are present with the lord, in whom they have believed.

So they have attained and can now see the One in whom they have had faith in.

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2


JLB

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

You have no scripture that states that we are 'KINGS", but there is scripture that states we are the BRIDE OF CHRIST.

Please stop speaking falsely about what I have plainly written out with scripture for you to see.

Here are the scriptures again, that show that we have been made kings.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

and again

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood [ referring to the Church]
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Revelation 5:9-10


JLB

 

[JLB]

What did the inscription on the cross state? Matthew 27:37 " And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS."

Yes, Jesus is the King of the Jews, whether they like it or not.

Jesus is also the King of the Church, both Jew and Gentile, whether they like it or not.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

The Church, whether Jew or Gentile, are those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

The "end of your faith" in any instance whereby you are believing for something, whether a spouse, or a healing or the salvation of your soul, is the manifestation of the thing you have been hoping for that is not yet seen.

The end result of your faith is attaining that which you have hoped.



See above.



See above.



The end of your life, if it was spent believing, and holding fast to the word that was preached to you.

For when a believer dies [their body], they are present with the lord, in whom they have believed.

So they have attained and can now see the One in whom they have had faith in.

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2


JLB

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

Don't miss the first part of the verse.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Please stop speaking falsely about what I have plainly written out with scripture for you to see.

Here are the scriptures again, that show that we have been made kings.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

and again

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood [ referring to the Church]
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Revelation 5:9-10


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

You keep referencing Revelation, but Revelation was written by an apostle to the circumcision. You cannot find Church doctrine from scripture written by John, he was an apostle to the circumcision: Galatians 2:9 " And when James, Cephas, John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

We are the bride of Christ, not subjects of the promised kingdom. In the old testament God promise the children of Israel that they would be a kingdom of priest to preach the gospel unto the whole world during that kingdom.

The Church was never to be made a kingdom of priest nor kings and priest as you teach.

In Revelation 1:1 it states: "to show unto his servants". The church is not servants but heirs and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ.
In quoting Revelation 1:5 you failed to include: "And from Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness, and the firstborn of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth."

Is the Church a servant, or a child an heir and joint-heir? Galatians 4:7 " Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son: and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."


Again can you produce scripture that says the "Church" is to be a kingdom of priest?
Exodus 19:6 " And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priest, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shall speak unto the children of Israel. " Are the children of Israel the Church?

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

You keep referencing Revelation, but Revelation was written by an apostle to the circumcision. You cannot find Church doctrine from scripture written by John, he was an apostle to the circumcision: Galatians 2:9 " And when James, Cephas, John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

All you or anyone has to do is read what is written.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

The Church, whether Jew or Gentile, are those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

This was written to the Seven Churches in Asia.

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. Revelation 1:4-5

One of these Seven Churches was Ephesus.

The same Church of Ephesus that Paul writes these words to:

30 For we are members of His body,of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:30-32


Again, please read these words:

... washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings...

These words were written to Gentile Churches in Asia.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

Don't miss the first part of the verse.

Yes we are now sons of God, through faith in Christ.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26


John walked with Jesus and was taught by Him, then lived as an obedient Apostle, in which he could confidently declare...

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:2-3

The question is can you say this.

I hope you can, because those who believe can indeed say this, just as Paul said...

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:16

However don't you forget this part: ...everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

We are children of God by faith, and we will continue to be children of God, as we continue in the faith, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


The hope of the Gospel is eternal life.

...He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7

Those who continue in the faith, are those who continue in the hope of the Gospel with patient endurance, persevering in the hope of salvation to come at the end of our faith.

Paul said this way.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

Paul is teaching the principle of faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

The substance of things hoped for...for why does one still hope for what he sees.

If you have the thing you are hoping for, then you are no longer "hoping for it", because you have attained it: you see it.

The thing that was "not seen", that you were hoping for, is now seen; it's been obtained, so you are no longer hoping for it.

Your faith has come to an end, because you have attained the thing you were hoping for, by faith... the salvation of your soul.

This is when we will have become sons of God in reality.

Reality being that we have attained to being Sons of God.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


When you repent and believe the Gospel, you now have the right or the power to become...a son of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12 KJV


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes we are now sons of God, through faith in Christ.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26


John walked with Jesus and was taught by Him, then lived as an obedient Apostle, in which he could confidently declare...

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:2-3

The question is can you say this.

I hope you can, because those who believe can indeed say this, just as Paul said...

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:16

However don't you forget this part: ...everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

We are children of God by faith, and we will continue to be children of God, as we continue in the faith, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


The hope of the Gospel is eternal life.

...He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7

Those who continue in the faith, are those who continue in the hope of the Gospel with patient endurance, persevering in the hope of salvation to come at the end of our faith.

Paul said this way.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

Paul is teaching the principle of faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

The substance of things hoped for...for why does one still hope for what he sees.

If you have the thing you are hoping for, then you are no longer "hoping for it", because you have attained it: you see it.

The thing that was "not seen", that you were hoping for, is now seen; it's been obtained, so you are no longer hoping for it.

Your faith has come to an end, because you have attained the thing you were hoping for, by faith... the salvation of your soul.

This is when we will have become sons of God in reality.

Reality being that we have attained to being Sons of God.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


When you repent and believe the Gospel, you now have the right or the power to become...a son of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12 KJV


JLB

None of us could say it JLB. But Jesus Christ told us..........NOW we are children of God.

If He didn't tell us that.................not a person on this earth now or who has ever lived could come up with this truth.

NOW we are children of God. Not when we die or at the end of our lives, But NOW.

 

[dirtfarmer]

All you or anyone has to do is read what is written.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6

The Church, whether Jew or Gentile, are those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

This was written to the Seven Churches in Asia.

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. Revelation 1:4-5

One of these Seven Churches was Ephesus.

The same Church of Ephesus that Paul writes these words to:

30 For we are members of His body,of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:30-32


Again, please read these words:

... washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings...

These words were written to Gentile Churches in Asia.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

What is the one thing that is common to all 7 churches in Revelation 2 & 3? "He that overcometh" is the condition to receive the reward that is promised them.

Can you supply scripture where the body of Christ, the Church, is ever told that if they overcome they will be rewarded?

Romans 8:37 states ," Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us."
1 Corinthians 15:57 states, "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Do these 2 verses teach that we have to be overcomers as those 7 verses state? I see them as teaching that the body of believers, the Church, has already overcome through Jesus Christ. If Revelation is about the body of believers that are in Christ today, then why are they admonished in Revelation 2 & 3 to strive to be overcomers.

 

[Jim Parker]

It states: In Matthew 25:31-46 show the resurrection. There is no resurrection of the dead, but a gathering of the nations."

When Christ comes again, there will be the resurrection and the judgment.
That is what Jesus was talking about in that passage.
Or did you think he was only talking about the people who happen to be alive at the time of His coming?

 

[Jim Parker]

You keep referencing Revelation, but Revelation was written by an apostle to the circumcision. You cannot find Church doctrine from scripture written by John,

What???
So Jesus is not God? (John 1:1)
God did not take on flesh and dwell among us? (John 1:14)
God does not lover the world? (John 3:16)
Who is teaching you this nonsense? (And please don't tell me it's the Bible because that's not in the Bible.)
What denomination do you worship with?