Jim Parker
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security
- Thread starter FreeGrace
- Start date
That is your own perception, that you have just come up with, to deny the truth.
You supply the scripture.
Here is my scripture that you continually avoid.
This is written to Gentile Churches in Asia, namely the Church at Ephesus.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [referring to the Church] 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:5-6
Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb, have been made kings and priest's.
Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb are the Church.
Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb have been transferred into the kingdom of His dear Son, because Christ is the King of the kingdom we have been transferred into.
Christ Jesus is our King, and is the King of kings.
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” Revelation 17:14
If Jesus Christ is not your King, then who is?
JLB
Ok, Please share where Jesus said this.
Here is what Jesus said:
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
John 1:12
Here's what Jesus said: But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
We are sons of God through faith in Him.
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26
- This means we have the confidence, which is to say, the substance of our hope is to become sons of God.
- Our names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, and will continue to remain in the Book of Life, as we continue to believe, and remain in Him through faith.
- If not, we could very well be blotted out of His book, if we are somehow persuaded to depart from the faith, and are moved away from the hope of the Gospel, which being cast out of Him as a branch, and gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
JLB
This understanding is NOT what "end" means in the Greek , which I've shown.
Nope.
The "end of your faith" is most certainly NOT "end of your life".
Your view is in direct conflict and contradiction with what Jesus taught in John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." NIV
What part of "has" do you not grasp?
More deceit.
Show one post that I have made where I have demanded that Jesus is painted out of the picture.
Those who do what Jesus commands, are assured that He is with them, even unto the end of the age.
On the other hand:
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
JLB
Interesting comment, since your view is that "end of faith" means "end of your life". Yet, this statement is an acknowledgement that those who believe ARE NOW sons of God.
So, it appears your position is that when one believes in Christ, they ARE NOW sons of God, but NOT YET saved, as they haven't died.
That is just very confused and convoluted.
And John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life. Present tense.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Not born again of perishable seed, just born....
"...the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar." (Galatians 4:23-24 NASB)
Now that I've shown you where it's at in scripture, let's relate that back to the discussion:
18...you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
23 ...you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." (1 Peter 1:18,23 NASB)
Context tells us what Peter is talking about, and he surely isn't talking about OSAS. He contrasting redemption through the law vs. redemption through the blood of Christ. But most Christians will not see that because we are so woefully ignorant of everything to the left of Matthew, because of our profound misunderstanding of Paul's 'law/works vs. grace' teaching. It's gotten to the point that 'law' and 'works' are the four letter words of the faith that should never be uttered under any circumstances, and certainly not in a discussion about grace. That's incredibly ignorant. But I say all that to show how stupid the church is about spiritual things because they think Paul was completely dissing anything and everything about the law, and because we think that, we see absolutely nothing about it right under our noses in the NT and it's don't see it's value in Christianity. So I understand why it is that you ask, "How does that make any sense?". You only know doctrines that you've been taught and how to link them to various scriptures, but you have not learned the Bible itself.
And this illustrates probably the biggest mistake so-called teachers of the scriptures make--they dogmatically assert something that ignores the context of the Bible itself. It seems to be the single biggest mark of false doctrine. Paul called it not rightly dividing the word of God. Once again a verse of scripture has been improperly lifted out of it's context. A context that the church can't see and understand because they've been told over and over it has no bearing whatsoever on discussions of faith in Christ.
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All you keep "showing" is your "opinion", with no scripture.
More denial, and opinion with no scripture.
Eternal life is knowing Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
Do you see Him?
What is the evidence that you know Him, since you can not see Him, except by faith, which is the evidence of things not seen.
He who says, “I know Him,” [claims they have eternal life] and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
JLB
Now we are sons of God through faith, which by definition means, we are hoping for the thing we do not see.
We have the substance of the thing hoped for.
If we are hoping for something, then we do not yet have it.
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25
The subject of the hope is salvation...For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope;
Yet, Paul says we are eagerly waiting for it [salvation] with perseverance.
JLB
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here
Yes , I agree when Jesus comes "in the air" there will be a resurrection and a judgment. A resurrection of those that belong to the Church, the body of Christ. In Revelation 20:5 it is stated, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished, this is the first resurrection.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here
Be careful of what you teach, you could be teaching heresy.
Where have I ever said that Jesus was not God manifest in the flesh and dwelt amongst us? If God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, why would anyone teach that he did not love the world?
As far as the teacher, he is the Spirit of God that dwells in the saved.
I have no affiliation with a denomination and, as far as worship, I worship Christ everyday, not just on Sunday.
smaller
Member
Is God in Christ present with any believer when they sin?
Then who are you seeking to potentially condemn to hell? Christ? Does Christ really rotate in and out of those who call upon Him to save them? OR, is His Command true, that He is with us, always?
His Commandments are true. The people who handle them are and will remain subject to rightful scrutiny of their claims of said Commandments.
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
We might understand Who is the real faithful One in the above.
And then we have the pretzel logic camp, that claims He never leaves us, but we leave Him, and they expect people to buy that twisted form of reasoning that is openly illogical on the face of it.
I said this:
"So your view seems to be that in the OT people were born again of corruptible or perishable seed? Seriously? How does that make any sense? v.23 is about being born again, which is a spiritual birth. No one was said to be born again by the Law.
If that's your position, where is that found in Scripture?"
Yet your position is that one so born of IMPERISHABLE SEED may actually perish in the lake of fire.
There is no justification for your position.
Jesus was very clear about the FACT that those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT come into condemnation in John 5:24, without adding any caveat, "if...". He also said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28, again without adding caveat.
Peter simply provides the explanation of WHY those who have been born again WILL NOT PERISH.
And your position of a saved person ending up in the lake of fire is basically that a born again person can spiritually die. Which is impossible.
He surely IS talking about eternal security. Those born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED simply CANNOT PERISH. Which is exactly what Jesus promised in John 5:24 and 10:28.
I've seen exactly this error in all your posts that attack eternal security.
"So your view seems to be that in the OT people were born again of corruptible or perishable seed? Seriously? How does that make any sense? v.23 is about being born again, which is a spiritual birth. No one was said to be born again by the Law.
If that's your position, where is that found in Scripture?"
Peter's point was that everyone is born of perishable seed, and he contrasted that birth with the believer's spiritual birth by saying "born AGAIN of imperishable seed".
Yet your position is that one so born of IMPERISHABLE SEED may actually perish in the lake of fire.
There is no justification for your position.
Jesus was very clear about the FACT that those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT come into condemnation in John 5:24, without adding any caveat, "if...". He also said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28, again without adding caveat.
Peter simply provides the explanation of WHY those who have been born again WILL NOT PERISH.
And your position of a saved person ending up in the lake of fire is basically that a born again person can spiritually die. Which is impossible.
He surely IS talking about eternal security. Those born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED simply CANNOT PERISH. Which is exactly what Jesus promised in John 5:24 and 10:28.
Since no one has EVER BEEN "redeemed through the law", this comment is fallacious.
Having used the pejorative phrase "hyper-grace", it is your position that is woefully ignorant of everything the Bible teaches about God's greater grace. James 4:6.
I've seen exactly this error in all your posts that attack eternal security.
That is a blatant lie. Nothing less.
Ditto.
Sure it is. And eternal life is RECEIVED when one BELIEVES.
1 Tim 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. NIV
From all your posts, it seems clear that this verse has been rejected.
Your unbiblical position is that sons of God do NOT YET have salvation or eternal life, but the FACTS refute such an idea.
Sure. And just what is this "substance"? Eternal life ITSELF.
Then your previous statement is absurd.
It's already been explained. What we are waiting for is life in eternity. You've not proven otherwise.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Believers have eternal life and will never perish. We all know this.
That's why one must continue to believe.
Why is this so hard for you????????
I know why........it's because you are indoctrinated. You have been trained to be unable to see that what Jesus said is not made untrue by the fact that what he says is only applicable to believers, not former believers. You have been taught a doctrine and the handful of isolated verses that, isolated by themselves, defend that doctrine. Now you need to learn the Bible.
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (see vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)
Already I can hear the gears of your indoctrination grinding away in your mind as you read the passage above..."this can't be true because once a person is saved they are always saved". I'm telling you, you're indoctrinated.
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The substance is the "substance" of the thing you are hoping for.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Deny the plain words of scripture isn't going to change anything.
Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?
Yes or No ?
It's very simple.
Can you answer a simple question ?
Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?
JLB
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Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture.
Opinion, with no scripture sums up your entire doctrine.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12
JLB
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here
What does ," unless ye believed in vain", state? It is not that they quit believing, but what they had faith in was not true. Verse 15 states," Yea, and we are found false witness of God". What would make them false witnesses of God? " because we have testified of God" what was it they testified of God that would make belief to be vain? " because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:" This is the testimony that were testifying to, but if it were not true, then their belief was in vain as we see in the next phrase: " whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not." There belief was vain if Christ was not raised up by God; not that they had stopped believing.