1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

You do realize that the "old nature" has been rendered powerless?

Oh really? Is that really what Paul tells us in Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:18, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:25, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:29, Gal. 5:17, 1 Tim. 1:15. ???

I would render an opposite verdict from the facts above. And I wouldn't be looking at just the "old man" which is how blinded religious people excuse sin indwelling and evil present with us, in our flesh, when for no uncertain fact these matters are the workings of adverse spiritual nature, not "the old man."

When we call our sin for what it is, "of the devil" as John does in 1 John 3:8, THEN and only then do we "see" what sin and evil is all about.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Oh really? Is that really what Paul tells us in Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:18, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:25, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:29, Gal. 5:17, 1 Tim. 1:15. ???

I would render an opposite verdict from the facts above. And I wouldn't be looking at just the "old man" which is how blinded religious people excuse sin indwelling and evil present with us, in our flesh, when for no uncertain fact these matters are the workings of adverse spiritual nature, not "the old man."

When we call our sin for what it is, "of the devil" as John does in 1 John 3:8, THEN and only then do we "see" what sin and evil is all about.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Go back one chapter from Romans 7 to Romans 6:6 " Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, the 'they' in the sentence is Israel. Israel is the subject of the sentence for whom Paul says the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable:

No he didn't. And making a claim doesn't make it a true claim.

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29 NASB)

According to the sentence, God's gifts and calling being irrevocable means the Israelites are what by God?

They are beloved.

Still doesn't CHANGE THE FACT that eternal life is a gift of God for ANYONE who believes, whether Jew or Gentile, and since God's gifts are irrevocable, that means eternal life is irrevocable.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because it ignores the whole counsel of scripture that teaches us that the promises are conditioned on a person continuing to believe.

There is not a single verse in Scripture that says this. None.

Why should anyone believe an unsubstantiated claim?

 

[Jim Parker]

You do realize that the "old nature" has been rendered powerless?

Really???
So you NEVER commit even the slightest sin?
Is that what you are saying?
Or did you mean something else?

 

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Go back one chapter from Romans 7 to Romans 6:6 " Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

See previous statements of fact from Paul:

Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:18-19, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:25, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:29, Gal. 5:17, 1 Tim. 1:15. etc. etc.

Paul advised to follow him as he followed Christ. Have you followed his quite entirely truthful steps in the above, or avoided them?

Mark most as "hard avoiders" of the obvious.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Really???
So you NEVER commit even the slightest sin?
Is that what you are saying?
Or did you mean something else?

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

I didn't say that I was sinless, what I said was that sin has no more power to control. Christ in his sacrifice on the cross won the victory over sin. If you think that it is sins that condemns a person to the lake of fire, then you need to study more about what Christ has accomplished. Scripture states that Christ has paid for the decree that God has made: "The soul that sinneth it shall die." We were all born sinners, therefore we were separated from God. When Christ gave up his life on the cross, the penalty for the sin of the whole world was paid. Dying in unbelief in Christ's work on the cross is the unpardonable sin and that which consigns a soul to the lake of fire.

We all will be judged by Christ for our works. The believer to determine rewards: The unbeliever to determine the degree of punishment according to the amount of light that was received and rejected.

I understand that I am not as educated as you, but scripture has stated that God has chosen the foolish things to confound the wise: 1 Corinthians 1:27

 

[Jim Parker]

I didn't say that I was sinless, what I said was that sin has no more power to control.

If it has no more power to control you then why do you still sin?
Is it because you want to sin?

Christ in his sacrifice on the cross won the victory over sin.

No. He was victorious over death.
1Co 15:54-55 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory." “O Death, where is your sting?"

When Christ gave up his life on the cross, the penalty for the sin of the whole world was paid.

There is no "penalty" for sin. Death is the "wages" of sin, not the "penalty" for sin.
God did not tell Adam that, if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, He would kill him. God said the result would
be that he would die.
When we sin, we reject God's sovereignty and substitute our own.
When we do that we separate ourselves from Life because only God has life by nature. We have life as a gift from God. 1Ti 6:13
The notion that death was a penalty or punishment for sin arose from Augustine, through the scholastics and succinctly expressed by Archbishop Anselm of Canterbury in his tract "Cur deus homo." It is a thoroughly Roman Catholic concept.

We all will be judged by Christ for our works.

We will be judged by our works.
… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(John 5:28-29 NKJV)

(God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
(Ro 6:2-10 NKJV)

The unbeliever to determine the degree of punishment according to the amount of light that was received and rejected.

Do you have a scriptural basis for that belief?
It seems reasonable; some beaten with many stripes and some with few and ruler over five cities and over ten, etc.
But, if you are not admitted into the kingdom then the only alternative is the "outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

I understand that I am not as educated as you, but scripture has stated that God has chosen the foolish things to confound the wise: 1 Corinthians 1:27

You're no fool.

iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

I didn't say that I was sinless, what I said was that sin has no more power to control. Christ in his sacrifice on the cross won the victory over sin. If you think that it is sins that condemns a person to the lake of fire, then you need to study more about what Christ has accomplished. Scripture states that Christ has paid for the decree that God has made: "The soul that sinneth it shall die." We were all born sinners, therefore we were separated from God. When Christ gave up his life on the cross, the penalty for the sin of the whole world was paid.

Extremely well said!!

Dying in unbelief in Christ's work on the cross is the unpardonable sin and that which consigns a soul to the lake of fire.

From the context where Jesus spoke of the unpardonable sin, it was about assigning the miracles of Jesus to the devil. Since they were present and actually saw the miracles, it was that rejection that was unpardonable.

However, the result of unbelief is not receiving the gift of eternal life, which is the stated reason for being cast into the lake of fire. Since Jesus died for all sins, that would include even the sin of unbelief. However, it's not the sin that casts them into the lake of fire; it's the result of not having eternal life that does.

We all will be judged by Christ for our works. The believer to determine rewards: The unbeliever to determine the degree of punishment according to the amount of light that was received and rejected.

Amen!

I understand that I am not as educated as you, but scripture has stated that God has chosen the foolish things to confound the wise: 1 Corinthians 1:27

I have been greatly blessed by your very wise posts. It isn't formal education that makes the difference. It's spiritual discernment that comes from the Holy Spirit. And your posts are full of spiritual discernment.

Keep up the good work!

 

[JLB]

I don't have to since the question is faulty and doesn't make sense. I can easily explain how a person can have the irrevocable gift of eternal life: they believed in Christ. And God's will is that those who believe will HAVE eternal life, per John 6:40.

By the very fact that one has the irrevocable gift of eternal life shows, proves, demonstrates that the call to salvation WAS available to them.

If the call wasn't available to them, they COULDN'T even have eternal life.

How can Jews who have yet to believe the Gospel, though they still are called, have eternal life?


You will need to explain just how a person who is called to salvation, can have eternal life?

The Gospel must be obeyed by both Jew and Gentile.

The Jew has the same obligation to obey the Gospel as everyone else.


Paul makes this clear in the previous chapter, which sets the context for Romans 11, which you plainly ignore.

Your "theology" places eternal life in those who have yet to obey the call of the Gospel, by confessing the Lord Jesus.

Paul just mentioned this in the previous chapter, and is the context of Romans 11.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Israel Rejects the Gospel -

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17


Those who are still called to salvation through the message of the Gospel, can not somehow have "eternal life" while they have yet to believe and obey the Gospel.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:6-11


JLB

 

[smaller]

Eph. 5:
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Where is the quest to eternally destroy in hell, but in the voice of the destroyer who will have that fate?

We were not so equipped.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[FreeGrace]

How can Jews who have yet to believe the Gospel, though they still are called, have eternal life?

Unless they believe in Christ, they CANNOT have eternal life. I've aready answered this question. Why do I keep getting it?

You will need to explain just how a person who is called to salvation, can have eternal life?

Sure. Again, by believing in Jesus Christ for it.

The Gospel must be obeyed by both Jew and Gentile.

Sure.

The Jew has the same obligation to obey the Gospel as everyone else.

Sure.

Paul makes this clear in the previous chapter, which sets the context for Romans 11, which you plainly ignore.

Please be specific about what I have ignored. And how whatever I've "ignored" changes anything I've posted.

Your "theology" places eternal life in those who have yet to obey the call of the Gospel, by confessing the Lord Jesus.

Actually, that's what you need to explain how it does. The claim must be supported by facts. What are the facts?

Paul just mentioned this in the previous chapter, and is the context of Romans 11.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Now, explain how this refutes my position.

Those who are still called to salvation through the message of the Gospel, can not somehow have "eternal life" while they have yet to believe and obey the Gospel.

I never said any of those who have not believed have eternal life. Ever.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

Yes, they are. And that includes the gift of eternal life.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:6-11
JLB

Why are we still on this? I've thoroughly explained HOW and WHY no human being has EVER received eternal life by "persistence in doing good", and you've not proven otherwise.

Rom 3:9, 23, and 20 refute your view on 2:6-8.

 

[JLB]

Unless they believe in Christ, they CANNOT have eternal life. I've aready answered this question. Why do I keep getting it?

Because you are missing the point, and your "answer" does not include the fact that if a person is "called" to salvation, then they can not at the same time have eternal life.

It's just that simple.

Which is why you want include the whole verse in your post's, but rather you keep claiming the gifts of God are irrevocable, which is clearly not what Paul wrote in the bible.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28-29

The context and status of those being called in verse 29, is "enemies of the Gospel", which is dictated by the context of the previous verse.

It is to those in the previous verse that the declaration of the gifts and calling are irrevocable are plainly made, of which they are unsaved and enemies of the Gospel.

So the obvious question remains un-answered by you, and all who use this verse to erroneously claim eternal life is irrevocable.

How can an unsaved, "enemy of the Gospel" have eternal life?

Those to whom verse 29 are referring are unsaved, enemies of the Gospel, and do not have eternal life.

How can you apply a condition of being "called to salvation", to the Church.

Verse 29 has nothing to do with those who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, since the language says "the gifts and calling" are irrevocable.

That's the Point!


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

If it has no more power to control you then why do you still sin?
Is it because you want to sin?

No. He was victorious over death.
1Co 15:54-55 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory." “O Death, where is your sting?"

There is no "penalty" for sin. Death is the "wages" of sin, not the "penalty" for sin.
God did not tell Adam that, if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, He would kill him. God said the result would
be that he would die.
When we sin, we reject God's sovereignty and substitute our own.
When we do that we separate ourselves from Life because only God has life by nature. We have life as a gift from God. 1Ti 6:13
The notion that death was a penalty or punishment for sin arose from Augustine, through the scholastics and succinctly expressed by Archbishop Anselm of Canterbury in his tract "Cur deus homo." It is a thoroughly Roman Catholic concept.

We will be judged by our works.
… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(John 5:28-29 NKJV)

(God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
(Ro 6:2-10 NKJV)


Do you have a scriptural basis for that belief?
It seems reasonable; some beaten with many stripes and some with few and ruler over five cities and over ten, etc.
But, if you are not admitted into the kingdom then the only alternative is the "outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You're no fool.

iakov the fool

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

To understand why a Christian still commits sins, we need to understand salvation.
SALVATION
1. we have been saved from the wages of sin. Eternal separation from God
2. we have been saved from the power of sin. We no longer continually practice sin.
3. we will be saved from the presence of sin when we are with Christ in the heavens.

As to 1 Corinthians 15:54-55, you need to read the next verse.
1 Corinthians 15:56 " The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law."

In verse 57 it is stated " But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." What have we been given victory over death or sin that brings death? God stated in Ezekiel 18:4 the last phrase: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." We know that this is not speaking of physical death because we read in scripture that death reigned from Adam to Moses even thought sin was not imputed to them.

This is not talking about physical death but spiritual death. Man was created dying physically. We know this from 1 Corinthians 15:50 " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. There was a necessity for Adam to go through physical death, because he was flesh and blood. Just as we are flesh and blood with the Spirit of God dwelling in us, the believers, it is necessary for a change in our bodies in order for us to inherit heaven. When Jesus came to the disciples in the upper room, he had a body of flesh and bone; not a body of flesh and blood.

We have no sovereignty of our own, only the permissive will of God.

Man does have a spirit. Romans 8:16 " The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." Hebrews 4:12 states that the soul and spirit is divided asunder by the word of God. Until our spirit is divided from our soul we are not conscience of God's Spirit.

The problem of trying to apply the kingdom to the Church, is that the church is the bride of Christ and will rule and reign with him during the kingdom period. There is the judgment of "rest of the dead" in Revelation 20.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Am I to assume that you are not "protestant"?

No.

So it is your belief that we are kept by our own power?

No.
We are kept by the power of God....through faith (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

you want to call faith a condition/work; is that what I am to understand.

Faith is a condition for justification, not a work of the law for justification.
You see, Paul contrasts faith with works of the law as that which can/can't justify. But the Protestant church moved faith over to the side of works of the law so as to make it so that if you make continuing faith the condition for justification you are creating the works gospel Paul condemns. How ludicrous.

Whose power? Man's power or the power of God?

God's power.
We choose whether to utilize it towards believing, or not.
You are probably right now hearing that as 'works'.

Does not God give power to believe?

That's the only place it does come from. Without the gift of faith it is impossible to then trust and believe in what you can not see and know is true about the gospel. But that hardly removes the obligation of men to do the believing/ trusting. God provides the faith as a free gift, and we in turn believe what God has shown us to be true through that gift of faith.

But anyway, all this is being brought up because the Protestant church has misunderstood Paul's faith vs. works for justification teaching so badly that it has gotten to the point now that we have so many Christians thinking that just to make believing the condition for accessing justification/salvation (Romans 5:2 NASB) is to make the gospel the damnable works gospel that Paul condemned. How incredibly misguided that is.

 

[dirtfarmer]

No.


No.
We are kept by the power of God....through faith (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)


Faith is a condition for justification, not a work of the law for justification.
You see, Paul contrasts faith with works of the law as that which can/can't justify. But the Protestant church moved faith over to the side of works of the law so as to make it so that if you make continuing faith the condition for justification you are creating the works gospel Paul condemns. How ludicrous.


God's power.
We choose whether to utilize it towards believing, or not.
You are probably right now hearing that as 'works'.


That's the only place it does come from. Without the gift of faith it is impossible to then trust and believe in what you can not see and know is true about the gospel. But that hardly removes the obligation of men to do the believing/ trusting. God provides the faith as a free gift, and we in turn believe what God has shown us to be true through that gift of faith.

But anyway, all this is being brought up because the Protestant church has misunderstood Paul's faith vs. works for justification teaching so badly that it has gotten to the point now that we have so many Christians thinking that just to make believing the condition for accessing justification/salvation (Romans 5:2 NASB) is to make the gospel the damnable works gospel that Paul condemned. How incredibly misguided that is.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

Justification is not a continual process as sanctification is, it is once and forever accomplished. Justification is similar to an acquittal. It is sin, the nature, that Christ was crucified on the cross to accomplish for those that have that belief. Sins are the action of that nature and it is my belief that only Christians will be judged for sins. Those that reject the message of the gospel, Christ paid your debt for sin( not sins) are condemned. Romans 8:1 states that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus. The reason why is because they are a new creation in Christ Jesus and walk after the Spirit, not the flesh.

Work is for sanctification, not justification. We are continually being sanctified, set apart for the work that God has for us. The relationship between God and man is established, once,through faith; after the relationship has been established, it cannot be broken. It is fellowship that is broken and is restored when we confess our sins.

 

[smaller]

No.


No.
We are kept by the power of God....through faith (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)


Faith is a condition for justification, not a work of the law for justification.
You see, Paul contrasts faith with works of the law as that which can/can't justify. But the Protestant church moved faith over to the side of works of the law so as to make it so that if you make continuing faith the condition for justification you are creating the works gospel Paul condemns. How ludicrous.


God's power.
We choose whether to utilize it towards believing, or not.
You are probably right now hearing that as 'works'.


That's the only place it does come from. Without the gift of faith it is impossible to then trust and believe in what you can not see and know is true about the gospel. But that hardly removes the obligation of men to do the believing/ trusting. God provides the faith as a free gift, and we in turn believe what God has shown us to be true through that gift of faith.

But anyway, all this is being brought up because the Protestant church has misunderstood Paul's faith vs. works for justification teaching so badly that it has gotten to the point now that we have so many Christians thinking that just to make believing the condition for accessing justification/salvation (Romans 5:2 NASB) is to make the gospel the damnable works gospel that Paul condemned. How incredibly misguided that is.

If some believers worked half as hard sharing the Love of God in Christ with others as they work to potentially burn them alive in hell for eternity the world would be a lot better place.

Matthew 5:
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because you are missing the point, and your "answer" does not include the fact that if a person is "called" to salvation, then they can not at the same time have eternal life.

I have NOT missed any point. In fact, I have repeatedly AGREED that one who has not yet believed, but is called, can have eternal life.

It's just that simple.

Apparently not, according to your own repeated question.

Which is why you want include the whole verse in your post's, but rather you keep claiming the gifts of God are irrevocable, which is clearly not what Paul wrote in the bible.

Huh? Did Paul NOT write that the gifts of God are irrevocable? He sure did. And along with the gifts of God, Paul included the calling of God. Maybe the meaning of "call" isn't familiar to your understanding.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28-29

Yup. There it is: BOTH the gifts AND the calling of God are irrevocable. Very simple.

In v.29 Paul notes 2 things that are irrevocable.

Why the attempt to make the gifts the SAME as the calling? They aren't the same.

Here's how they are different:
Being called or invited to salvation is NOT the SAME as having salvation. Why would anyone think they are the same thing?

It is to those in the previous verse that the declaration of the gifts and calling are irrevocable are plainly made, of which they are unsaved and enemies of the Gospel.

Not at all. In fact, God's gifts and call are also available to Gentiles. Just read the NT and you'll see.

So the obvious question remains un-answered by you, and all who use this verse to erroneously claim eternal life is irrevocable.

This is quite confused, since you've previously said that Paul was an example of having eternal life. Well? That's one of the gifts of God. And the gifts of God are irrevocable.

How can an unsaved, "enemy of the Gospel" have eternal life?

They can't. And I never even suggested that they could. And I can't even imagine how anyone would get that idea from anything I've posted.

Those to whom verse 29 are referring are unsaved, enemies of the Gospel, and do not have eternal life.

So what? You pointed out that Paul was example of v.29 and he had eternal life.

How can you apply a condition of being "called to salvation", to the Church.

We all were called. Get a concordance and look up the word "called" in the NT. It's ALL OVER the NT. And believers are said to be "the called of God".

Some examples:
Rom 1:6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; NASU
1 Cor 1:24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God NASU
Jude 1 Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: NASU
Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." NASU

See?

Verse 29 has nothing to do with those who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, since the language says "the gifts and calling" are irrevocable.
That's the Point!
JLB

Couldn't be MORE WRONG. You've already pointed out that Paul was an example of v.29 and he was saved and had eternal life.

Might want to think through before posting next time.

Furthermore, God's gifts AND calling are for Gentiles as well. Get a concordance and do a bit of work.

 

[JLB]

I have NOT missed any point. In fact, I have repeatedly AGREED that one who has not yet believed, but is called, can have eternal life.

Then you agree that those mentioned in verse 29 are unsaved, and can not possibly have eternal life.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

Those to whom this verse refers, do not have eternal life, therefore eternal life is not included in the word gifts.

Unless you can prove from the scriptures, that those who have rejected Jesus as Messiah and Lord, do indeed have eternal life, then the "gifts" mentioned in Romans 11:29 can not possibly be referring to eternal life.

As long as a person is called to salvation through the irrevocable gifts and calling of God, then they do not have eternal life.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Then you agree that those mentioned in verse 29 are unsaved, and can not possibly have eternal life.

Anyone who does not have the gift of eternal life is unsaved, sure. But what v.29 is telling us is that those WHO HAVE eternal life, have an irrevocable gift.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

Yes, BOTH OF THEM. The gifts of God AND the calling of God.

Don't you realize that Paul was telling us 2 different things that are irrevocable?

Those to whom this verse refers, do not have eternal life, therefore eternal life is not included in the word gifts.

One would have to guess that English may not be one's native language if that's how one wrongly interprets that verse.

Paul informs us of 2 different things that are irrevocable; God's gifts AND God's call.

When God invites, He never revokes that invitation. And when God gives the gift of eternal life, He never revokes that gift.

That is irrefutably clear for anyone who's native language is English.

Only if one can show from Scripture clear wording that shows that God has revoked either His call or His gifts, 3 of which Paul described within the body of the letter to the Romans.

Unless you can prove from the scriptures, that those who have rejected Jesus as Messiah and Lord, do indeed have eternal life, then the "gifts" mentioned in Romans 11:29 can not possibly be referring to eternal life.

This challenge is based on a very wrong understanding of the verse in the first place.

As long as a person is called to salvation through the irrevocable gifts and calling of God, then they do not have eternal life.
JLB

I've never said otherwise.

However, the verse isn't about NOT having eternal life. It's about the gifts of God, which ARE irrevocable. Paul said so.