1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[JLB]

Romans 8:1 states that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:1-6


Paul plainly exhorts us to walk according to the Spirit who dwells within us, fulfilling the righteous desires of the Spirit, rather than gratifying the sinful desires of the flesh.


The choice is up to each of us, who have the Holy Spirit within us, who empowers us to walk in victory over the desires of the flesh.

Paul goes on to say -

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

Living the Christian life is an everyday process.

The older we get in the Lord, the more He expects us to be conformed to His image and walk as He walked, as we have the same Spirit dwelling within us, and have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, in which we become partakers of His Divine nature through these promises.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Those who live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

...were washed, were sanctified, were justified.


Christians who practice a lifestyle of homosexuality, or sexual immorality, or idolatry and the like, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16,19-21



JLB

 

[JLB]

Anyone who does not have the gift of eternal life is unsaved, sure. But what v.29 is telling us is that those WHO HAVE eternal life, have an irrevocable gift.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:28-32

Again, you are "making up", a phrase that does not appear in this verse.

This verse does not contain the words "eternal life", and for good reason, since the context is referring to those who are enemies of the Gospel, but can indeed be saved if they repent and obey the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.


This is the context, as it continues from the dialog in the previous chapter.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Israel Rejects the Gospel
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17

The same "they" is the context of Romans 11:29

Those to whom Romans 11:29 refer are those who have rejected the Gospel, and are enemies of the Gospel.

However the gifts and calling of salvation remains extended to them, IF THEY REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.

Eternal life can not possibly be referred to in Romans 11:29, since the context is about unbelieving Jews.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:28-32

Again, you are "making up", a phrase that does not appear in this verse.

This verse does not contain the words "eternal life", and for good reason, since the context is referring to those who are enemies of the Gospel, but can indeed be saved if they repent and obey the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.


This is the context, as it continues from the dialog in the previous chapter.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Israel Rejects the Gospel
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17

The same "they" is the context of Romans 11:29

Those to whom Romans 11:29 refer are those who have rejected the Gospel, and are enemies of the Gospel.

However the gifts and calling of salvation remains extended to them, IF THEY REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.

Eternal life can not possibly be referred to in Romans 11:29, since the context is about unbelieving Jews.JLB

The entire problem with your misunderstanding of Rom 11:29 is in the assumption that "the gifts and calling of God..." means "the gifts which is the calling of God...".

It certainly does not mean that. Everyone familiar with the English language knows that Paul was describing 2 DIFFERENT THINGS that are irrevocable:

1. the gifts of God
2. the calling of God

iow BOTH of these 2 DIFFERENT THINGS are irrevocable. You've not shown otherwise.

 

[Jim Parker]

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This thread and others has been a quite an experience in wrestling with the mentality of the false teacher and their doctrines.
We read about them in our Bibles and the danger of them, but it's amazing to see in real life the hardness of their hearts and the power of deceit that grips them.

I first learned about the power of indoctrinations from a story David Jeremiah shared once. He pointed his finger right on a verse in Revelation that made the Jehovah's Witness doctrine false, but the person he was showing it to still looked right at it and claimed what they were defending. This thread and others has given me the opportunity to see those kinds of people for myself. Scary.

We Christians have to understand that if we choose to ignore scripture and embrace deceit God will turn us over to blindness so that we can't see the truth, the conscience becoming seared because of repeated lying (1 Timothy 4:2 NASB).

 

[FreeGrace]

This thread and others has been a quite an experience in wrestling with the mentality of the false teacher and their doctrines.
We read about them in our Bibles and the danger of them, but it's amazing to see in real life the hardness of their hearts and the power of deceit that grips them.

It is your position that has no evidence from Scripture, and eternal security is plainly taught. Your position has confused "plainly SAID" with "plainly MEANS".

None of the passages on eternal security can be explained rationally from your position. So they are generally just dismissed.

Or, the explanation given isn't close to reasonable.

For example, one of your supporters understands Rom 11:29 to be saying (meaning) that the "gifts" in that verse is the "call" in that verse.

When the very wording shows that Paul was referring to TWO DIFFERENT things that are irrevocable; both God's gifts, AND God's call.

The absolute fact is that eternal life is a gift of God, and since the gifts of God are irrevocable, so is eternal life.

That has been proven from logic. The response from your side was only the claim that my logic was illogical, but without any evidence to support that claim.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is your position that has no evidence from Scripture, and eternal security is plainly taught. Your position has confused "plainly SAID" with "plainly MEANS".

None of the passages on eternal security can be explained rationally from your position. So they are generally just dismissed.

Or, the explanation given isn't close to reasonable.

For example, one of your supporters understands Rom 11:29 to be saying (meaning) that the "gifts" in that verse is the "call" in that verse.

When the very wording shows that Paul was referring to TWO DIFFERENT things that are irrevocable; both God's gifts, AND God's call.

The absolute fact is that eternal life is a gift of God, and since the gifts of God are irrevocable, so is eternal life.

That has been proven from logic. The response from your side was only the claim that my logic was illogical, but without any evidence to support that claim.

I did not name names.
I addressed all of us Christians as to the danger of choosing the lie over the truth. If we do that the day will come when we can look right at Bible and not be able to see it's truth.

I said all that to illustrate the futility of beating the proverbial dead horse. Blinded people are simply not going to see the truth.

 

[FreeGrace]

I did not name names.

OK. Neither did I.

I addressed all of us Christians as to the danger of choosing the lie over the truth. If we do that the day will come when we can look right at Bible and not be able to see it's truth.

Which is why I have been so adamant about the truth of eternal security and pointing out how and why your position is not found in the Bible.

I said all that to illustrate the futility of beating the proverbial dead horse. Blinded people are simply not going to see the truth.

I've sure seen that a lot here.

 

[gr8grace3]

Which is why I have been so adamant about the truth of eternal security and pointing out how and why your position is not found in the Bible.

And your like a machine! Always a pleasure to log on and read the truth of the lord Jesus Christ you uphold. Dirtfarmer has got doctrine in his soul also.

It is crazy to watch the clear message like this be rejected......John 5:24.
New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


And then to see this turned into PEOPLE being burned in the LoF!.........1 Cor 3:15
New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If we don't have our eternal security figured out, we will NEVER rightly divide His Word.

 

[FreeGrace]

And your like a machine! Always a pleasure to log on and read the truth of the lord Jesus Christ you uphold. Dirtfarmer has got doctrine in his soul also.

Yes he does!!

It is crazy to watch the clear message like this be rejected......John 5:24.
New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

I truly do not understand how anyone cannot understand this clear message.

And then to see this turned into PEOPLE being burned in the LoF!.........1 Cor 3:15
New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If we don't have our eternal security figured out, we will NEVER rightly divide His Word.

It seems the loss of salvation position doesn't believe the warning passages are about loss of eternal rewards or fellowship, nor that abiding means fellowship and to not abide means loss of fellowship.

And, most importantly, they do not accept the full extent of God's matchless grace, which is demonstrated by the perjorative use of the term "hyper-grace".

As if having "too much" of God's grace is a bad thing.

 

[Jim Parker]

I first learned about the power of indoctrinations from a story David Jeremiah shared once. He pointed his finger right on a verse in Revelation that made the Jehovah's Witness doctrine false, but the person he was showing it to still looked right at it and claimed what they were defending.

I have seen that with JWs, Mormons, liberals, etc. I refer to it as a "Cult Mentality." It not only infects many branches of Christianity, but it is pervasive throughout society. Consider the fact that Hilary got more popular votes than Trump in spite of being incompetent, a criminal, a liar, and complicit in the murder of our people in Benghazi. (And probably Vince Foster) Note the students out protesting the election of Trump. They have been indoctrinated, since kindergarten, by the progressive/liberal/socialist agenda which the Marxists in the education establishment have been pushing for the past few generations. So they act like spoiled children who didn't get everything they wanted for Christmas.
The cult mentality is such that the person has been trained so that any information which challenges the ideology of the "cult" (very loosely defining "cult") is immediately deflected and not permitted to be examined logically and honestly by the member. Hie intellect/consciousness has had a filter installed which prevents anything but the cult's declared truth to enter. Whatever promotes the cults ideology is allowed; whatever challenges if is not even noticed.
The result is seen here when we post the scriptures that specifically and clearly refute the doctrine in question, it's seems as if those scriptures don't exist. They are rejected out of hand or spun so as to remove any rational meaning from them.

It is apparently a universal trait of humanity that our minds are susceptible to such programming. The prerequisite seems to be a felt need for a non-existent reality which the "cult" is ready to fulfill.

Just my experience and musings.......


iakov the fool


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[gr8grace3]

As if having "too much" of God's grace is a bad thing.

If we ever get down right honest with ourselves..........we all get "too much" of Gods grace. If we could understand that about OURSELVES, we wouldn't be wondering about how other's "are not really saved" or " are going to lose their salvation."

Keep up the good fight brother.

 

[JLB]

The entire problem with your misunderstanding of Rom 11:29 is in the assumption that "the gifts and calling of God..." means "the gifts which is the calling of God...".

It certainly does not mean that. Everyone familiar with the English language knows that Paul was describing 2 DIFFERENT THINGS that are irrevocable:

1. the gifts of God
2. the calling of God

iow BOTH of these 2 DIFFERENT THINGS are irrevocable. You've not shown otherwise.

This verse does not contain the words "eternal life", and for good reason, since the context is referring to those who are enemies of the Gospel, but can indeed be saved if they repent and obey the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:28-32

To whom does "them", and "they" and "their" refer to in the context of these passages, of which verse 29 is referring?

1. Born again Christians?
2. Unsaved Jews who have rejected Jesus as Messiah?

This thread and others has been a quite an experience in wrestling with the mentality of the false teacher and their doctrines.
We read about them in our Bibles and the danger of them, but it's amazing to see in real life the hardness of their hearts and the power of deceit that grips them.

Amen.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"The entire problem with your misunderstanding of Rom 11:29 is in the assumption that "the gifts and calling of God..." means "the gifts which is the calling of God...".

It certainly does not mean that. Everyone familiar with the English language knows that Paul was describing 2 DIFFERENT THINGS that are irrevocable:

1. the gifts of God
2. the calling of God

iow BOTH of these 2 DIFFERENT THINGS are irrevocable. You've not shown otherwise."

This verse does not contain the words "eternal life", and for good reason, since the context is referring to those who are enemies of the Gospel, but can indeed be saved if they repent and obey the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

Please finally FACE the FACT that Rom 6:23 AND Rom 11:29 are about the GIFTS OF GOD.

6:23 describes one of the gifts of God.
11:29 tells us that the gifts of God are irrevocable.

There is no reason at all to exclude ANY of the gifts that Paul DID describe from 11:29. In fact, it is irrational to do so.

The local context DOES NOT exclude eternal life from 6:23 as gifts that are irrevocable.

If Paul HAD NOT described any gifts of God prior to 11:29, you might have a point. But, because he DID describe 3 specific gifts, Paul certainly DID have those gifts in mind when he penned 11:29.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:28-32

To whom does "them", and "they" and "their" refer to in the context of these passages, of which verse 29 is referring?

1. Born again Christians?
2. Unsaved Jews who have rejected Jesus as Messiah?

Unbelieving Jews. So what, again? The point REMAINS; the gifts of God (one of which IS eternal life) ARE irrevocable.

Any unbelieving Jew who places their faith in Christ will HAVE eternal life, and that gift is irrevocable. That is Paul's point.

And God's call (invitation to the gospel) to the Jews (and Gentiles) is irrevocable.

Do you agree that 11:29 is speaking of 2 separate things from God that are irrevocable? If not, then please provide a clear explanation of why not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I truly do not understand how anyone cannot understand this clear message.

Your interpretation of it ignores the whole context of scripture.
The same John who wrote the un-rightly divided verses from the letter of John that you use to defend OSAS also wrote this:

9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9 NASB)
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:11-12 NASB)

So we can plainly see that John was not excusing the requirement to abide in the gospel word in order to be saved. We know that because of the whole context of scripture. But OSAS depends on the deceit of isolating various passages away from the whole context of the Bible and misleading an already Biblically illiterate church into the lie that believers can not stumble so as to go to the fiery hell, as even Jesus himself talks about in Matthew 18:6-9 NASB, and Mark 9:42-48 NASB.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

1. the gifts of God
2. the calling of God

iow BOTH of these 2 DIFFERENT THINGS are irrevocable. You've not shown otherwise."

14“For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matthew 22:14 NASB)

We know that the calling is indeed revocable for the individual person. Many have received the calling of God, yet reject it and lose that calling (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 NASB, 1 John 5:10 NASB). But you insist that the calling is irrevocable for the person.

But what we see Paul plainly teaching is that the calling is still in place for the nation of Christ rejecting Jews. God did not revoke that calling even though He cut them out of the tree because of their unbelief. So it's easy to see right from the Romans 11 passage itself that Paul is not saying that once a person has salvation they can never lose it. It's very obvious just from a simple read that he is saying the Jews have not lost God's calling even though they have rejected Christ. Paul and other Israelites being the proof that God has not revoked that calling (Romans 11:1-2 NASB). It's simply not a passage about a believer never being able to lose his salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you agree that 11:29 is speaking of 2 separate things from God that are irrevocable? If not, then please provide a clear explanation of why not.

How does one have the gifts of God if he is not first called to them?

 

[chessman]

The same John who wrote the un-rightly divided verses from the letter of John that you use to defend OSAS also wrote this:

9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9 NASB)

Right after he set the context:

2 John 1:8 (LEB) Watch yourselves that you do not lose what we have worked for, but receive a full reward.
​

If the discussion was not about losing reward (versus losing irrevocable gifts) you'd have a point. As it stands, you unrightly divide verse 8 from verse 9. Plainly.

 

[chessman]

How does one have the gifts of God if he is not first called to them?

How does one ever have eternal life if the life they've been called to AND gifted with (whether Jew or Gentile) is not actually eternal?

 

[chessman]

In fact, God's gifts and call are also available to Gentiles. Just read the NT and you'll see.

NT??? Pff. Just read Romans 11.

Romans 11:13 ... 29 (LEB) Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. ... For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
​

If anyone deserved the call to salvation thru Christ being revoked for him, it was a man named Saul. As it stands, however, God did not revoke the call He made to Saul and somewhere along the road Saul became gifted with the name of Paul. Irrevocably so. Why?

In order that he could have mercy on them all. Every last one whom He's called and gifted.

Oh, the depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! That's some powerful stuff, that knowledge of God.