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1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

Here is another verse that speaks of eternal security:
Heb 10:14
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. NIV

"has made perfect" is in the perfect tense, which means a completed action in the past with continuing results. Then, the writer added "forever" to seal the deal. The completed action of being made perfect goes on FOREVER.

And to whom is this describing? To "those who are being made holy". Present tense.

The phrase 'those who are being made holy' refers to believers and the progressive sanctification process of spiritual growth.

So, even as believers are "being made holy" via the sanctification process, they are ALREADY MADE PERFECT.

So, to those who still think that salvation can be lost, please explain how this verse doesn't teach eternal security.

Or, just explain what it does teach.
 
JLB said:
Please explain what this means.



JLB
Click to expand...
In my opinion the counter argument platform to eternal salvation is speaking of those persons who are not part of the vine of life in Jesus Christ. Instead, they are that which withers, dries up, and falls off. And as such are cast into the fire .

The verses speak today to what we call, nominal Christianity. The name only individual who claims Christ but is not one with Christ.
 
JLB said:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

What is it this verse teaches us, we must do, to receive the Holy Spirit?

I believe Paul is teaching us that we must believe, in order to have the Holy Spirit.


What is it, according to your understanding, that a person must do, to have the Holy Spirit?



JLB
Click to expand...
God calls to him those who are meant to be one in Christ. Those that heed the calling and accept Jesus as their savior receive the Holy Spirit. They are then filled with the Holy Spirit in a continuing process all their life as their relationship in Christ grows.

Those who do not actually believe in Jesus Christ and for all that entails are the branch that withers from the vine and falls away. They were not actually one with the vine. They were what is called the nominal Christian, the name only Christian. Those whom scripture refers to in Matthew 7:21-23.

Eternal security is also what is described in the parable of the prodigal. The son walked away from the father and the family and thought he could go his own way and survive. He was wrong. When he humbled himself and repented of his mistakes and returned to the family he was welcomed with open arms. By his father and his family. And they celebrated his homecoming. Because that son was always part of the family.
 
Mustard Socks said:
God calls to him those who are meant to be one in Christ. Those that heed the calling and accept Jesus as their savior receive the Holy Spirit. They are then filled with the Holy Spirit in a continuing process all their life as their relationship in Christ grows.

Those who do not actually believe in Jesus Christ and for all that entails are the branch that withers from the vine and falls away. They were not actually one with the vine. They were what is called the nominal Christian, the name only Christian. Those whom scripture refers to in Matthew 7:21-23.

Eternal security is also what is described in the parable of the prodigal. The son walked away from the father and the family and thought he could go his own way and survive. He was wrong. When he humbled himself and repented of his mistakes and returned to the family he was welcomed with open arms. By his father and his family. And they celebrated his homecoming. Because that son was always part of the family.
Click to expand...

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14


What is it, according to your understanding, that a person must do, to have the Holy Spirit?


  • Believe the Gospel?
  • Something else?


JLB
 
JLB said:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14


What is it, according to your understanding, that a person must do, to have the Holy Spirit?


  • Believe the Gospel?
  • Something else?


JLB
Click to expand...
I've explained this already.
 
Mustard Socks said:
Eternal security is also what is described in the parable of the prodigal. The son walked away from the father and the family and thought he could go his own way and survive. He was wrong. When he humbled himself and repented of his mistakes and returned to the family he was welcomed with open arms. By his father and his family. And they celebrated his homecoming. Because that son was always part of the family.
Click to expand...

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

Jesus teaches us that "His sheep", that became lost has become a "sinner" in need of repentance.

...there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Lost = sinner that must repent, or remain in a lost condition.
Found = sinner that has repented and is no longer lost.

The prodigal son:

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry. Luke 15:22-24


If the son does not turn back to the father [repent], he will be lost: Dead.


JLB
 
Mustard Socks said:
I've explained this already.
Click to expand...


You have attempted to "explain away" the plain and clear words of scripture, in favor of clinging to an unbiblical doctrine.

You refuse to answer a simple question, that requires you to admit that the fundamental requirement to having the Holy Spirit is to believe.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Those who believe = Saved
Those who believe for a while = saved for a while.


JLB
 
Mustard Socks said:
In my opinion the counter argument platform to eternal salvation is speaking of those persons who are not part of the vine of life in Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...


Those who are not part of the Vine, are certainly not saved.

Thank you for admitting that those who were in Him, then later are removed from Him, are not saved.

A person who is "in Him" has been joined to Him, and is one Spirit with Him, and has eternal life.

  • But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Eternal Life is knowing Him.

  • And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


JLB
 
FreeGrace said:
I said this:
"the gifts of God are irrevocable."

Rom 11:29 directly refutes your claim.


What does that mean? That the gifts all by themselves are not irrevocable? That would be nonsensical.


Do you not realize that Paul is identifying TWO THINGS that EACH are irrevocable?

Both the gifts of God AND the calling of God are irrevocable.

If your position is that "gifts and calling" represent just ONE thing, then please explain what that means.

Then I said this:
"eternal life is a gift of God."

Once again, your claim is directly refuted by Rom 6:23.


Why don't you see the plain words of Scripture "but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".


You have sorely misunderstood what Paul was saying. Those who have believed ARE in Christ Jesus, and HAVE the gift of eternal life. So there is NO WARNING of death from the wages of sin.

Don't you know that Jesus Christ PAID the sin debt??

  • Since you've made it quite clear that every occurence of "death" means only "eternal death" there is no use in further discussion. Your position lacks the doctrine of divine discipline that includes physical death. And those verses have been shown, so I'll not irritate you any farther by reminding you of them.


As if a plain statement in the verse means something else if not including every word in the verse? Nonsensical, again.
Click to expand...


The gifts and the calling are irrevocable.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

↑
eternal life is a gift of God.
Click to expand...

False!

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

  • The gift of God is eternal life "in Christ Jesus" our Lord.
  • The wages of sin is death.
Paul warns these Christians that the wages of sin is death.

Paul warns these Christians, not to become a slave again to sin, as your master is the one you obey:

  • Whether sin leading to death.
  • Obedience unto righteousness.

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


Quoting half verse's out of context is the mark of a false teacher!


JLB
 
JLB said:
Those who are not part of the Vine, are certainly not saved.

Thank you for admitting that those who were in Him, then later are removed from Him, are not saved.

A person who is "in Him" has been joined to Him, and is one Spirit with Him, and has eternal life.

  • But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Eternal Life is knowing Him.

  • And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


JLB
Click to expand...
I did not admit anything. I referred to God's word that has taught us so.
Am I wrong in my perceptions in this topic or are you very aggressive and confrontational here and throughout? And if so, why?
 
JLB said:
You have attempted to "explain away" the plain and clear words of scripture, in favor of clinging to an unbiblical doctrine.
Click to expand...
Now I see what you are about.
I have explained the passage. I do not tolerate accusations of that nature . Especially when the argumentum is convoluted and circles round to contradiction. You are a very confused spirit.

Be done with me as I am with you. Thank you.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Absolutely Correct. But get ready for the whirlwind. It doesn't specifically say"eternal life."
Click to expand...
I've encountered the whirlwind already. It is unfortunate and yet avoidable if one chooses to get out of its path. :whirl
I would agree with you that that passage does not expressly state eternal life. However, the entire mission and message of Jesus Christ does in fact state that. As you and I and other saints here who are in the Word know.
 
Mustard Socks said:
I've encountered the whirlwind already. It is unfortunate and yet avoidable if one chooses to get out of its path. :whirl
I would agree with you that that passage does not expressly state eternal life. However, the entire mission and message of Jesus Christ does in fact state that. As you and I and other saints here who are in the Word know.
Click to expand...

And Eph 2:8 is a great verse to PROVE eternal security. And if we look at the construct of Eph 2:5 we see it again.

Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
"have been saved".......
eimi 1510 ~~pres act ind 2p ---verb *ye are being, 4
swzw 4982 ~~perfect tense pas nom p mas-Ptc *having been saved, 5

Paul uses 2 verbs to describe the salvation of the believer, because he can't get all the information in with just one. Rather then just saying "you are saved." He says," you have been in the past, you are saved and you WILL be saved."

It is called the periphrastic perfect in the Greek. It offers no loopholes and is arguably the most forceful way to get a point across in the Greek.....because Paul knew full well that there were going to believers and unbelievers who would try to put doubt in the minds of believers.

Not to mention that "born-again" from the OP is in the PERFECT tense. A resulting action that WILL continue on.

Source~~*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
 
gr8grace3 said:
And Eph 2:8 is a great verse to PROVE eternal security. And if we look at the construct of Eph 2:5 we see it again.

Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
"have been saved".......
eimi 1510 ~~pres act ind 2p ---verb *ye are being, 4
swzw 4982 ~~perfect tense pas nom p mas-Ptc *having been saved, 5

Paul uses 2 verbs to describe the salvation of the believer, because he can't get all the information in with just one. Rather then just saying "you are saved." He says," you have been in the past, you are saved and you WILL be saved."

It is called the periphrastic perfect in the Greek. It offers no loopholes and is arguably the most forceful way to get a point across in the Greek.....because Paul knew full well that there were going to believers and unbelievers who would try to put doubt in the minds of believers.

Not to mention that "born-again" from the OP is in the PERFECT tense. A resulting action that WILL continue on.

Source~~*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. It is a very inspiring and helpful addition to this discussion.
 
Mustard Socks said:
Now I see what you are about.
I have explained the passage. I do not tolerate accusations of that nature . Especially when the argumentum is convoluted and circles round to contradiction. You are a very confused spirit.

Be done with me as I am with you. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yes, those who have no answer to the plain words of Christ, usually fall into attacking the person, since the their doctrine is exposed for what it truly is.



You refuse to answer a simple question, that requires you to admit that the fundamental requirement to having the Holy Spirit is to believe.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Those who believe = Saved
Those who believe for a while = saved for a while.


JLB
 
gr8grace3 said:
And Eph 2:8 is a great verse to PROVE eternal security. And if we look at the construct of Eph 2:5 we see it again.

Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
"have been saved".......
eimi 1510 ~~pres act ind 2p ---verb *ye are being, 4
swzw 4982 ~~perfect tense pas nom p mas-Ptc *having been saved, 5

Paul uses 2 verbs to describe the salvation of the believer, because he can't get all the information in with just one. Rather then just saying "you are saved." He says," you have been in the past, you are saved and you WILL be saved."

It is called the periphrastic perfect in the Greek. It offers no loopholes and is arguably the most forceful way to get a point across in the Greek.....because Paul knew full well that there were going to believers and unbelievers who would try to put doubt in the minds of believers.

Not to mention that "born-again" from the OP is in the PERFECT tense. A resulting action that WILL continue on.

Source~~*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
Click to expand...


Paul says we are saved "by faith", or "by faith" we are saved.

There is no disagreement with this.

If someone no longer has faith, or no longer believes, or depart's from the faith, do you honestly believe they are still "saved by faith"?



JLB
 
Mustard Socks said:
Free Grace Said:↑
eternal life is a gift of God.

To the contrary.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” —Ephesians 2:8,9
Click to expand...

Paul says we are saved "by faith", or "by faith" we are saved.

There is no disagreement with this.

If someone no longer has faith, or no longer believes, or depart's from the faith, do you honestly believe they are still "saved by faith"?



JLB
 
JLB said:
Paul says we are saved "by faith", or "by faith" we are saved.

There is no disagreement with this.

If someone no longer has faith, or no longer believes, or depart's from the faith, do you honestly believe they are still "saved by faith"?



JLB
Click to expand...

Yes they are still saved. Because ............. We are not saved by our faith, we are saved BY grace through faith. And as Paul points out in Eph 2:8 and in 2:5 most emphatically, we are saved in the past(the moment we believe.) We are saved in the present. We are saved in the future........that's what that periphrastic perfect is in there for.

For you to be SURE. And for me to be SURE, even when some sneaky snake comes in and asks," Are you reeeeaaalllyyyy saved forever? What if?"

If we could lose our salvation, under ANY circumstances......Paul wouldn't have described salvation like that for the believer.

On this point. If you could prove to me that the periphrastic perfect is not there. And I am wrong on what it means. Then I would have to seriously look at my view.
 
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