1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[chessman]

God gave us the grace to say 'no' to sin:

True. But saying 'no' to sin didn't save us in the first place nor does it keep us saved.

You missed Paul's first reason for God giving people His grace:

Titus 2:11 (LEB) For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people [slaves, young men, young women, older men, older women. I.e. All types of people ]​

It brought salvation TO people, not so people could bring their sinless lives to God and save ourselves or maintain our salvation through sinning less. Don't believe me???

Titus 3:4 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, ...​

Saying no to sin(s) in this present age (saved yet awaiting His coming) demonstrates God's grace to the unsaved world and to other/younger Christians. It does not demonstrate to God that we are saved and/or deserve to remain that way. Don't believe me??? What does Paul say these good deeds in this present age [awaiting our savior] do then if they don't save us??? What are good deeds for???

Our good deeds (saying no to sin) do the following things:
1) encourages loving others
2) trains us to be self-controlled, pure, busy and good
3) demonstrate to the world that the word of God is true and that it is a sound message, beyond reproach
4) puts shame upon unbelievers
5) gives unbelievers no reason to say anything bad concerning us
6) demonstrates to the world what good faith looks like
7) credits God, our Savior

In other words...be fruitful.

Don't belive me???

Titus 2:4-5, 8, 10 (LEB) in order that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands and to love their children, to be self-controlled, pure, busy at home, good, being subject to their own husbands, in order that the word of God may not be slandered. a sound message beyond reproach, in order that an opponent may be put to shame, because he has nothing bad to say concerning us. not stealing, but demonstrating all good faith, in order that they may do credit to the teaching of God our Savior in everything. ​

Titus 3:14 (LEB)
These things [saying no to sin, good deeds, wives loving husbands, etc.] are good and beneficial for people. But also our people must learn to engage in good deeds for necessary needs, so that they will not be unfruitful.
​

Same as what Jesus taught "bearing fruit" was for:

John 15:8 (LEB) My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.

John 15:5 (LEB) “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him—this one bears much fruit, for apart from me you are not able to do anything.
​

Apart from God's grace appearing, you are not able to save yourself nor say 'no' to sin.

Titus 3:4-7 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

Who saved us? Jesus Christ, our Savior.
Was it by our righteous deeds that we were (or are) saved? No.
Did we (or can we) wash ourselves, regenerate ourselves or renew ourselves by saying no to sin? No, that's the job of the Holy Spirit.
And how well does the Holy Spirit do His job? Abundantly well!
Are we already justified? Yes.
By our saying no to sin? No. It was by His grace.
Are we heirs already? Yes.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Who is posting this stuff? Certainly NO ONE on this thread. But the use of the very pejorative phrase "hyper-grace" reveals a gross misunderstanding of God's grace. The word "hyper-" means "too much", or "excessive". What a horrible thought in regard to God's matchless grace.

Cutting that short to say, actually hyper-grace posted here by one in particular is not a unique issue to this forum.
It in fact is an Antinomianism heresy that is making the rounds on and off line.
Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace


Rather than someone taking on the upset that they believe they see in this thread, perhaps a moderator can gently suggest that heresy is against the rules here. And this then would prevent the non-Christian ideology about hyper-grace continuing to be promoted by those of ill intent. After all, a Christians forum can be the first exposure someone seeking the call of God in their life has to God's word. The opposed heretical teaching that is the lie of hyper grace serves no good purpose. And in fact in itself is something that can be seen as a tool of the adversary. Because that lie imparts the idea that God lied and that no Christian nor seeker of Christ can live resting assured they are truly and eternally saved, as they do read in the actual scriptures.

 

[FreeGrace]

True. But saying 'no' to sin didn't save us in the first place nor does it keep us saved.

You missed Paul's first reason for God giving people His grace:

Titus 2:11 (LEB) For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people [slaves, young men, young women, older men, older women. I.e. All types of people ]​

It brought salvation TO people, not so people could bring their sinless lives to God and save ourselves or maintain our salvation through sinning less. Don't believe me???

Titus 3:4 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, ...​

Saying no to sin(s) in this present age (saved yet awaiting His coming) demonstrates God's grace to the unsaved world and to other/younger Christians. It does not demonstrate to God that we are saved and/or deserve to remain that way. Don't believe me??? What does Paul say these good deeds in this present age [awaiting our savior] do then if they don't save us??? What are good deeds for???

Our good deeds (saying no to sin) do the following things:
1) encourages loving others
2) trains us to be self-controlled, pure, busy and good
3) demonstrate to the world that the word of God is true and that it is a sound message, beyond reproach
4) puts shame upon unbelievers
5) gives unbelievers no reason to say anything bad concerning us
6) demonstrates to the world what good faith looks like
7) credits God, our Savior

In other words...be fruitful.

Don't belive me???

Titus 2:4-5, 8, 10 (LEB) in order that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands and to love their children, to be self-controlled, pure, busy at home, good, being subject to their own husbands, in order that the word of God may not be slandered. a sound message beyond reproach, in order that an opponent may be put to shame, because he has nothing bad to say concerning us. not stealing, but demonstrating all good faith, in order that they may do credit to the teaching of God our Savior in everything. ​

Titus 3:14 (LEB)
These things [saying no to sin, good deeds, wives loving husbands, etc.] are good and beneficial for people. But also our people must learn to engage in good deeds for necessary needs, so that they will not be unfruitful.
​

Same as what Jesus taught "bearing fruit" was for:

John 15:8 (LEB) My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.

John 15:5 (LEB) “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him—this one bears much fruit, for apart from me you are not able to do anything.
​

Apart from God's grace appearing, you are not able to save yourself nor say 'no' to sin.

Titus 3:4-7 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

Who saved us? Jesus Christ, our Savior.
Was it by our righteous deeds that we were (or are) saved? No.
Did we (or can we) wash ourselves, regenerate ourselves or renew ourselves by saying no to sin? No, that's the job of the Holy Spirit.
And how well does the Holy Spirit do His job? Abundantly well!
Are we already justified? Yes.
By our saying no to sin? No. It was by His grace.
Are we heirs already? Yes.

I love your posts, full of truth!!

 

[FreeGrace]

Cutting that short to say, actually hyper-grace posted here by one in particular is not a unique issue to this forum.
It in fact is an Antinomianism heresy that is making the rounds on and off line.

Absolutely true!! I was limiting my comments to this particular thread.

Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace
Rather than someone taking on the upset that they believe they see in this thread, perhaps a moderator can gently suggest that heresy is against the rules here. And this then would prevent the non-Christian ideology about hyper-grace continuing to be promoted by those of ill intent. After all, a Christians forum can be the first exposure someone seeking the call of God in their life has to God's word. The opposed heretical teaching that is the lie of hyper grace serves no good purpose. And in fact in itself is something that can be seen as a tool of the adversary. Because that lie imparts the idea that God lied and that no Christian nor seeker of Christ can live resting assured they are truly and eternally saved, as they do read in the actual scriptures.

What I find interesting (not in a positive way) is how others make up words that aren't in Scripture. If there was such a thing as having "too much" grace, the Bible would have addressed it.

What the Bible has done is warn again those who are simply opposed to God's grace.

 

[chessman]

I will be saying thank you to my Father today for saving me (a sinner). If I were to thank Him for giving me a 'process' toward my hopeful salvation in the future by sinning less, I would be thanking Him for so much less than He has given me already.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Absolutely true!! I was limiting my comments to this particular thread.

Understood.
Antinomianism is related to the lie, the heresy, of the pejorative, "hyper-grace". This way if the two terms are shared in a thread where the hyper-grace heresy keeps being reiterated, and not this thread alone sadly, the opportunity to promote Antinomianism later is defeated. Because they are revealed as related here.

What I find interesting (not in a positive way) is how others make up words that aren't in Scripture. If there was such a thing as having "too much" grace, the Bible would have addressed it.

What the Bible has done is warn again those who are simply opposed to God's grace.

And there is a name for those too isn't there?

What did Paul tell us? 2 Corinthians 11:14

 

[gr8grace3]

I don't ascribe to universalism.

Nor do I. People don't go to the LoF for their sins. Christ paid for all sin. They are judged based on their deeds/works done in the flesh............self righteous "good" or EVIL in Gods eyes.

2 Cor 11:15~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Rev 20:13~~New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12~~New American Standard Bible
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Nor do I. People don't go to the LoF for their sins. Christ paid for all sin. They are judged based on their deeds/works done in the flesh............self righteous "good" or EVIL in Gods eyes.

2 Cor 11:15~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Rev 20:13~~New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12~~New American Standard Bible
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

While I understand what you are saying, we have to express without any way to doubt, what scripture is stating.
John 3:17 states, " For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world:"
Man is condemned already and there is no room of any further condemnation. When God made the statement, " The soul that sinneth, it shall die", all mankind had already been judged. So Christ came not to condemn the world because the world was already condemned.
John 3:17, " but that the world through him might be saved."
Christ came that salvation, not condemnation, could be offered because of the condemnation already passed on the world.

It is my belief that all will be judged by Christ, not for salvation, but for rewards. The believer will stand before the "Bema"seat of Christ and judgment of works will be as to whether they were for God's glory or for our glory. Those that were done for God's glory will receive a "crowns", of which we will cast at the feet of Christ because he is worthy. Those that were for our glory will be as wood, stubble, and hay will be burned up.
The unbeliever will be judged, after the millennium for the amount of light they receive and rejected and judgment will be meted out according to that.

Happy Turkey day

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I look forward to your posting that scripture wherein God states he will revoke his grace from whom he will as He wills.

Jesus explains how it is in the kingdom that forgiveness is revoked for the person who treats it with contempt (Matthew 18:23-35 NASB). And God will "take away" the person's part in the tree of life and the holy city for adding or subtracting to the prophecy of Revelation (Revelation 22:19 NASB).

How does someone argue that eternal knowledge calls forth, bestows grace, then takes it back because of something the human does that suspends that?

God revokes his grace when it is treated with contemptuous, willful unbelief and the person refuses all invitations to come back to that grace. That's how someone argues that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

For the baby Christians here , there is no such thing as hyper-grace!

Hyper-grace is a characteristic of the anti-OSAS argumentum.

You would do well to educate yourself about the present hyper-grace movement sweeping the Protestant church. It says you can shrink back into unbelief and into an outright denial of Christ and you are still saved.

I gather from your posts that if you actually knew the argument you'd resist it. You seem to be of the traditional OSAS strain. At least traditional OSAS has continued believing as the signature of the genuine believer. That argument has it's own problems, but let's not go there just yet.

 

[gr8grace3]

hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

While I understand what you are saying, we have to express without any way to doubt, what scripture is stating.
John 3:17 states, " For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world:"
Man is condemned already and there is no room of any further condemnation. When God made the statement, " The soul that sinneth, it shall die", all mankind had already been judged. So Christ came not to condemn the world because the world was already condemned.
John 3:17, " but that the world through him might be saved."
Christ came that salvation, not condemnation, could be offered because of the condemnation already passed on the world.

It is my belief that all will be judged by Christ, not for salvation, but for rewards. The believer will stand before the "Bema"seat of Christ and judgment of works will be as to whether they were for God's glory or for our glory. Those that were done for God's glory will receive a "crowns", of which we will cast at the feet of Christ because he is worthy. Those that were for our glory will be as wood, stubble, and hay will be burned up.
The unbeliever will be judged, after the millennium for the amount of light they receive and rejected and judgment will be meted out according to that.

Happy Turkey day

Good post Dirtfarmer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who is posting this stuff? Certainly NO ONE on this thread.

YOU say you can become an unbeliever all over again and you still have God's grace in justification/salvation. If that isn't grace to continue in sin, what is, freegrace, what is?

But the use of the very pejorative phrase "hyper-grace" reveals a gross misunderstanding of God's grace. The word "hyper-" means "too much", or "excessive". What a horrible thought in regard to God's matchless grace.

Hyper-grace means taking God's grace where it was never intended to go, like hyper extending an elbow and moving it past the place where it was intended to stop. Hyper-grace bends God's grace beyond the point that God said it will go. You do not retain God's grace in salvation when you return to unbelief. That's bending God's grace beyond the point where he said it stops.

It is incumbent on the believer to keep believing the gospel they heard and by which they were saved in order to continue to be saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB). Nobody has been able to make 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 say differently without ignoring context and/or changing words in the passage. Just like with all the other non-OSAS passages.

Since God's grace has covered ALL sins, your entire soteriology falls apart. We are saved by grace, and kept by that very same grace. If that seems "excessive" to anyone, that is their problem alone.

He did not die for the unrepentant Christ denier. Grace does not cover blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Anyone who calls the Holy Spirit a liar by not believing the gospel about the Son of God can not have God's grace, and loses that grace if he has it and goes back to not believing the gospel. Blasphemy of the Spirit is out of bounds for the grace of God. You can't bend it to go there. If you do, you are hyper-extending it where it does not go, like bending your elbow backwards.

This is beyond absurd. NO ONE has ever said anything about being "dead in Christ".

You must not have read gr8grace3's post then.

Your soteriology fails to understand the new birth; that it CANNOT BE UNDONE. Any more than a physical birth can be undone.

How absurd it is to liken the moving of the Holy Spirit in rebirth to that of a physical birth in that it's not physically impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave a person as easily as he came in. It's a ridiculous analogy. Like grace, analogies can be bent too far, too. You are obviously doing that with the analogy of physical birth.

Since NO ONE on this thread has EVER made such an outrageous statement about "justifying sin" or being "dead in Christ", your comments simply remove any credibility of your theology. And shows that it cannot be taken seriously.

You better check with gr8grace3 before you insist no one has ever said that in this thread. There is another person in this forum who posts about this aspect of hyper-grace. The death we die in Christ is a death to sin where we don't live in it anymore, but they convolute our death in Christ to mean being defeated by sin.

 

[gr8grace3]

YOU say you can become an unbeliever all over again and you still have God's grace in justification/salvation. If that isn't grace to continue in sin, what is, freegrace, what is?


Hyper-grace means taking God's grace where it was never intended to go, like hyper extending an elbow and moving it past the place where it was intended to stop. Hyper-grace bends God's grace beyond the point that God said it will go. You do not retain God's grace in salvation when you return to unbelief. That's bending God's grace beyond the point where he said it stops.

It is incumbent on the believer to keep believing the gospel they heard and by which they were saved in order to continue to be saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB). Nobody has been able to make 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 say differently without ignoring context and/or changing words in the passage. Just like with all the other non-OSAS passages.


He did not die for the unrepentant Christ denier. Grace does not cover blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Anyone who calls the Holy Spirit a liar by not believing the gospel about the Son of God can not have God's grace, and loses that grace if he has it and goes back to not believing the gospel. Blasphemy of the Spirit is out of bounds for the grace of God. You can't bend it to go there. If you do, you are hyper-extending it where it does not go, like bending your elbow backwards.


You must not have read gr8grace3's post then.


How absurd it is to liken the moving of the Holy Spirit in rebirth to that of a physical birth in that it's not physically impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave a person as easily as he came in. It's a ridiculous analogy. Like grace, analogies can be bent too far, too. You are obviously doing that with the analogy of physical birth.


You better check with gr8grace3 before you insist no one has ever said that in this thread. There is another person in this forum who posts about this aspect of hyper-grace. The death we die in Christ is a death to sin where we don't live in it anymore, but they convolute our death in Christ to mean being defeated by sin.

Give me the quote's Jethro. I will try to explain it to you in way you can understand.

 

[ezra]

Read it.
God wants believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell. How is going to the fiery hell still having Christ's eternal life?

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6,8-9 NASB)

It's irrefutable. It's right there in plain words.

where does it say God want " believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell. " we are not here as the judge .. we only judge the sin not the sinner

How is going to the fiery hell still having Christ's eternal life?

it AINT no true born again will go to hell. eternal life /security is Bible .. what is not Bible is saying i have eternal l life /security and purposelessly living in sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

True. But saying 'no' to sin didn't save us in the first place nor does it keep us saved.

And when someone in this thread starts saying that then we'll gang up on them and explain to them how wrong they are. But, as it has been noted, no one has been saying 'not sinning' is what saves us, or what keeps us saved.

 

[JLB]

where does it say God want " believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell. " we are not here as the judge .. we only judge the sin not the sinner it AINT no true born again will go to hell. eternal life /security is Bible .. what is not Bible is saying i have eternal l life /security and purposelessly living in sin.

Thanks for your opinion.

Please share some scriptures for your opinion.


JLB

 

[JLB]

But when Paul clearly described 3 of God's gifts before he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable, and believers openly reject that at least 2 of those specifically described gifts (justification and eternal life) are irrevocable, they have no excuse. And they lose all credibility.

Those who claim that the "gifts" are irrevocable, have lost all credibility, as no scripture says this.

What the scripture does say, is the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable; without repentance - without regret.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

If a person is "removed" or "taken away" from Christ, then they no longer have eternal life, they once had.

2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

Just like the example of Judas Iscariot, whereby he "heard His Voice", and "followed Him", for 3 1/2 years, then fell away from Christ, through betrayal.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

where does it say God want " believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell.

It's right there in the post you quoted.

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6,8-9 NASB bold and underline mine)
​

it AINT no true born again will go to hell.

Correct. Born again people are not tossed into the fire. Born again people who cease to believe, and thus, cease to be new creations in Christ/born again will be tossed into the lake of fire.

eternal life /security is Bible

Yep. Sure is. Keep believing and you most assuredly have eternal life/ security in Christ. NO ONE can take it away from the believer. It's the one who goes back to unbelief that is not secure in Christ and eternal life.

what is not Bible is saying i have eternal l life /security and purposelessly living in sin.

I couldn't agree more. The Bible is very, very clear about this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

we are not here as the judge .. we only judge the sin not the sinner

(Almost forgot to address this.)

Don't be afraid to cut off the person in the church who is causing us, God's kids who believe in him, to stumble (putting them in danger of the fiery hell--Matthew 18:6-9):

"1It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES." (1 Corinthians 5:1-12 NASB bold mine)

 

[gr8grace3]

You must not have read gr8grace3's post then.

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I said. I don't even know what you are referring to, But the only people around here that are saying someone is "dead in Christ" is the loss of salvation crowd.

We have died with Christ( in His death) and LIVE with Him In HIS life.

You better check with gr8grace3 before you insist no one has ever said that in this thread. There is another person in this forum who posts about this aspect of hyper-grace. The death we die in Christ is a death to sin where we don't live in it anymore, but they convolute our death in Christ to mean being defeated by sin.

Another gross misrepresentation of what I have said. His Grace has defeated our sin.PERIOD. We don't have a chance at defeating our sin.

We walk in the Spirit and are to be filled with the Spirit. Anyone who thinks that defeating sin is the issue, is not walking in the Spirit, nor are they filled with the Spirit. Sin is not the issue when we are filled with the Spirit.

If one thinks that their life is fighting sin and overcoming sin.............they are still living in sin, even if they appear to be making strides over it.

Walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit and sin is not the issue. Even "fighting" sin.

Our life is not a death to sin life. Our life is a new creation in Christ that is led by the filling of the Spirit.......it has NOTHING to do with sin.