1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[Mustard Socks]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[gr8grace3]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Too many folks today think that if they are good, follow His steps and ways and do wonderful things in His name, gets them their lottery ticket to heaven.

But they never truly trusted in His Name( His person and work.)

 

[Mustard Socks]

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Too many folks today think that if they are good, follow His steps and ways and do wonderful things in His name, gets them their lottery ticket to heaven.

But they never truly trusted in His Name( His person and work.)

True.
Makes me think of the celebrities that make news winning music awards after writing vile songs objectifying women, violence, praising drugs, etc... They come up on stage to get the award likely granted for having the most units sold, not because of actual talent. And around their necks? Huge diamond encrusted crosses.
It's jewelry that in many cases is leased. The relationship born of God's grace from the cross isn't there.

 

[gr8grace3]

True.
Makes me think of the celebrities that make news winning music awards after writing vile songs objectifying women, violence, praising drugs, etc... They come up on stage to get the award likely granted for having the most units sold, not because of actual talent. And around their necks? Huge diamond encrusted crosses.
It's jewelry that in many cases is leased. The relationship born of God's grace from the cross isn't there.

I am just the opposite. It makes me think of "lowly christians" that carve their own driftwood cross around their neck, take a vow of poverty in jesus name, give up as much sin as possible,serve,give,go to church,do missions and promise to never stop "believing."

And they never trusted In The Lord Jesus Christ ALONE for their salvation.

 

[Mustard Socks]

I am just the opposite. It makes me think of "lowly christians" that carve their own driftwood cross around their neck, take a vow of poverty in jesus name, give up as much sin as possible,serve,give,go to church,do missions and promise to never stop "believing."

And they never trusted In The Lord Jesus Christ ALONE for their salvation.

Our Father knew who of us were his before he created anything at all. The only one's that deceive are those who deceive themselves. Living a life still dead in their sins, while holding a bible under their arm, with Jesus name on their lips. God knows.

Have a blessed Thanksgiving.

 

[gr8grace3]

Our Father knew who of us were his before he created anything at all. The only one's that deceive are those who deceive themselves. Living a life still dead in their sins, while holding a bible under their arm, with Jesus name on their lips. God knows.

Have a blessed Thanksgiving.

For another thread. Technically, no one is dead in their sins. Christ paid for all sin, people are dead in their EVIL. Or their human good. Their sins are paid for, but not their evil/human good/self-righteousness.

Christ paid for our sin, but not for our deeds and works that we think are good enough........EVIL.

 

[Mike]

Too many folks today think that if they are good, follow His steps and ways and do wonderful things in His name, gets them their lottery ticket to heaven.

I've seen no one in these OSAS discussions express this view of salvation by works. If you are implying that to be anti-OSAS is to believe what you've said here, I think you're making a leap. I guess I'm just one of those rare believers that sees merit in what is being said by both camps, yours and theirs. I understand why those who hold to OSAS feel so passionately that people know they are forever His. I also understand why those who don't hold to it feel passionate about the eternal consequences of walking away from the faith.

Obviously they can't both be true, but I just don't believe it's nearly as clear cut as you and they say it is. It wouldn't be debated as vehemently as it is today after centuries of disagreement if it were. One view would have decisively put the other to rest long ago if it were.

So, now that I've offended both camps, you can all direct your rage at me and not each other. :yes

 

[Jethro Bodine]

She may have figured out her freedom in Christ.

Freedom to return to her old life (because of unbelief)?
God gave us the grace to say 'no' to sin:

"11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age" (Titus 2:12 NIV)

But hyper-grace has misunderstood grace to mean God gave us the grace to continue in our sin. This misunderstanding of grace--that it was given so we can still be saved in our unbelief and it's resulting sin--is the great deceit presently devouring the church.

Fruit inspectors are looking for the outward change and not the inward change.

Jesus said...

"First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." (Matthew 23:26 NASB)

Inward change is signified by outward change. To take comfort in some kind of inner change that hasn't changed the outside of a person is to be deceived about an inner change that has not actually occurred. When you are different on the outside, that is when you have become different on the inside. The outward change being the proof of that inward change. No outward change means there has been no inward change.

2 Cor 4:18~~New American Standard Bible
while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In the passage, the temporal Paul is talking about is not sin, but rather personal distress and discomfort:

"7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; 8we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12So death works in us, but life in you.

16Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. 17For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, 18while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal." (2 Corinthians 4:7-12,16-18 NASB)

When we sin we are not "carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus" (vs.10). We do that dying when we resist sin and choose to suffer instead, not when we cave into sin. The death we die is the death we die to sin (Romans 6:6 NASB). But hyper-grace has convoluted the death in Christ so that living in the death of sin is what it means to be dead in Christ. It seems hyper-grace turns a blind eye to sin, justifying that sin by erroneously labeling that sin a temporal dying in the flesh Christians do. But clearly, death in Christ is you dying to sin, not living in it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Obviously they can't both be true, but I just don't believe it's nearly as clear cut as you and they say it is. It wouldn't be debated as vehemently as it is today after centuries of disagreement if it were. One view would have decisively put the other to rest long ago if it were.

I used to think this too.....that there really was no answer given by God to the matter.

I don't believe that anymore. The answer came when I looked at all the evidence and saw that the non-OSAS passages don't nullify the passages used to defend OSAS. But the OSAS interpretation of the passages they use to defend OSAS nullifies the plain passages that teach non-OSAS. Only in non-OSAS can John 5:24 (for example) and 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 both be true. But if you interpret John 5:24 to mean OSAS it instantly nullifies 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 (and other passages).

I honestly think the conclusion you have come to above (which a lot of people have come to) is just as much a work of the evil one suppressing the truth as actually believing the lie is. That's not a criticism of you. I'm just saying it's a way that seems innocent, even noble, that puts the argument to rest when in actuality it still gives the enemy success in suppressing the truth about non-OSAS without you actually agreeing with OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Too many folks today think that if they are good, follow His steps and ways and do wonderful things in His name, gets them their lottery ticket to heaven.

But they never truly trusted in His Name( His person and work.)

Exactly! Only unbelievers think that. But you and other hyper-grace adherents keep assigning this thinking to born again people. I simply do not encounter this thinking among the Christians I have met in thirty years of being a Christian. But I encountered it all the time when witnessing to unbelievers.

The lottery ticket that gives you access to the treasures of heaven and the life to come is your trust in Christ (Romans 5:1-2 NIV). But if you lose that lottery ticket before the day of redemption you lose what that ticket guaranteed you (1 Peter 1:4-5 NIV).

"...he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV bold and underline mine)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've seen no one in these OSAS discussions express this view of salvation by works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The good news of Jesus Christ is eternal , not transitional by our will being greater than the Father that called us to him by his grace.

From the read of it that sounds like your argument. Because you claim we can work to lose our salvation by choice that is greater than the will of the Father and his grace.

If you believe that our trusting/believing in Christ is thrust on us without our consent or choice in the matter then the discussion ends here. That would amount to a premise upon which you build OSAS which would have to be addressed all by itself in another thread.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus didn't die to give temporary life that could be revoked by the stronger will of the mortals made alive in their redemption, so that they could choose to return to the dead in their sins.

God does the revoking.
Man does the forfeiting.
There is no disagreement that man in himself does not save and un-save. Man merely fulfills, or doesn't fulfill, the believing that God requires in order for God alone to justify/save, or condemn.

 

[Mustard Socks]

God does the revoking.
Man does the forfeiting.
There is no disagreement that man in himself does not save and un-save. Man merely fulfills, or doesn't fulfill, the believing that God requires in order for God alone to justify/save, or condemn.

I look forward to your posting that scripture wherein God states he will revoke his grace from whom he will as He wills.

Reason being, and stating this as my personal opinion, belief, which should be apparent at this point. If I accept God is sovereign, omniscient(eternally knowledgeable concerning his creation. *Which is all that is, was , or ever shall come to be*) , omnipresent, (eternally present), omnipotent(eternally powerful), and omni-benevolent (eternally kind), and I also accept those scriptures that in total and individually so as not to have to reference each and every one here, tell me that God calls those whom He will to be saved. (No man comes to me but by the father who called them), when Father bears all those aforementioned characteristics that include sovereignty and foresight, being the scriptures that tells us also that all things are predestined according to his will, divine plan, and for his glory, then it doesn't make a lick of sense that that same Father would "save" me and then decide not to. And because of something "I did" . That omniscience would have seen coming before he created the world . And when prior to that creation knew me .

He knew me before he created the world I would come to live in in 19---- . He called me to be saved, and then ......he revoked what he created, bestowed, called me to seek, and then decided, nope, I'm taking it back and sending her to Hell.

That's not sovereign omniscience. That's the kind of back peddling that humans do with gifting.And that's after the fact and without the capacity of omniscience.

Like someone who gifts their niece a car because they've earned it doing well in college. Then on a whim because of something the niece may or may not know they did, that gifter asks for the keys back and cancels the insurance.

Sorry, you're going to walk now or take the bus or a cab. No more car for you.

How does someone argue that eternal knowledge calls forth, bestows grace, then takes it back because of something the human does that suspends that?

 

[Mustard Socks]

Exactly! Only unbelievers think that. But you and other hyper-grace adherents keep assigning this thinking to born again people. I simply do not encounter this thinking among the Christians I have met in thirty years of being a Christian. But I encountered it all the time when witnessing to unbelievers.

The lottery ticket that gives you access to the treasures of heaven and the life to come is your trust in Christ (Romans 5:1-2 NIV). But if you lose that lottery ticket before the day of redemption you lose what that ticket guaranteed you (1 Peter 1:4-5 NIV).

"...he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV bold and underline mine)

For the baby Christians here , there is no such thing as hyper-grace!

Hyper-grace is a characteristic of the anti-OSAS argumentum. (Argument in momentum) God's grace is God's grace. Period.

 

[Mustard Socks]

For another thread. Technically, no one is dead in their sins. Christ paid for all sin, people are dead in their EVIL. Or their human good. Their sins are paid for, but not their evil/human good/self-righteousness.

Christ paid for our sin, but not for our deeds and works that we think are good enough........EVIL.

I don't ascribe to universalism.
Ephesians 2:1 refutes your claim.
I'd note also that rather than all this conflict people be aware that in this forum as in most real Christian forums, there are rules against promoting unbiblical doctrine.

 

[FreeGrace]

I've seen no one in these OSAS discussions express this view of salvation by works. If you are implying that to be anti-OSAS is to believe what you've said here, I think you're making a leap. I guess I'm just one of those rare believers that sees merit in what is being said by both camps, yours and theirs. I understand why those who hold to OSAS feel so passionately that people know they are forever His. I also understand why those who don't hold to it feel passionate about the eternal consequences of walking away from the faith.

Obviously they can't both be true, but I just don't believe it's nearly as clear cut as you and they say it is. It wouldn't be debated as vehemently as it is today after centuries of disagreement if it were. One view would have decisively put the other to rest long ago if it were.

Yet, each side has made that claim.

So, now that I've offended both camps, you can all direct your rage at me and not each other. :yes

No offense from me. I think Paul wrote 2 Tim 2:15 to young pastor Timothy for a very good reason. We must be diligent (by study) to be an approved workman of God, thereby rightly dividing the word of truth.

But when Paul clearly described 3 of God's gifts before he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable, and believers openly reject that at least 2 of those specifically described gifts (justification and eternal life) are irrevocable, they have no excuse. And they lose all credibility.

 

[FreeGrace]

But hyper-grace has misunderstood grace to mean God gave us the grace to continue in our sin.

Who is posting this stuff? Certainly NO ONE on this thread. But the use of the very pejorative phrase "hyper-grace" reveals a gross misunderstanding of God's grace. The word "hyper-" means "too much", or "excessive". What a horrible thought in regard to God's matchless grace.

Since God's grace has covered ALL sins, your entire soteriology falls apart. We are saved by grace, and kept by that very same grace. If that seems "excessive" to anyone, that is their problem alone. But they will be judged by God for their unbiblical view of His grace.

But hyper-grace has convoluted the death in Christ so that living in the death of sin is what it means to be dead in Christ.

EDITED. NO ONE has ever said anything about being "dead in Christ". To even form such a statement is bizarre to the extreme. Eph 2:5 is clear. Your soteriology fails to understand the new birth; that it CANNOT BE UNDONE. Any more than a physical birth can be undone.

It seems hyper-grace turns a blind eye to sin, justifying that sin by erroneously labeling that sin a temporal dying in the flesh Christians do. But clearly, death in Christ is you dying to sin, not living in it.

EDITED

I didn't address all the passages quoted in your post because they have all been previously addressed to show that they do not support your claims. I'm tired of repeating myself.

 

[Mustard Socks]

I think when we accept what we are told by Father, that we are saved by his grace, then we are told by people that God can change his mind that the rational intellectual side of us are then presented with no quandary at all when we realize who is credible.
Not the people that claim God lied. Which is what is being argued when people think something we cannot work to achieve can be worked by us to be revoked by the bestower of it; God.
There is not a single scripture that in all intellectual honesty can be said to state that. Not one.
This is from the prior linked audio sermon, Grace To You. "Salvation Is Irrevocable". Excerpted/ "We come now to the end of the chapter. We've gone basically through Paul's discussion of this great theme of security in the Spirit, and that has all sort of come to a glorious culmination in verses 28 to 30, where there is the single greatest statement anywhere on the pages of Scripture about the security of the believer. "God is causing all things to work together for good," and remember, I told you that good is our eternal glory. Everything that happens in our lives God causes to work for our eternal glory. Why? Because that's His purpose that we be brought to glory, "For whom He foreknew He predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son that His Son might be the firstborn, or the premier one among many brethren." "


For the idea that we can lose our salvation by our choice to be true, that highlighted red font portion that is also in scripture would have to be a lie. I.E. God lied.

 

[FreeGrace]

Mustard Socks said: ↑
Jesus didn't die to give temporary life that could be revoked by the stronger will of the mortals made alive in their redemption, so that they could choose to return to the dead in their sins.

God does the revoking.
Man does the forfeiting.

Why should anyone believe these 2 statemenets when there are NO VERSES that say such a thing?

Please give a verse that tells us WHAT exactly God does revoke.

Then, please give a verse where man forfeits salvation or eternal life.

Otherwise, quit believing what the Bible doesn't teach.