2 witness

[Shilohsfoal]

The way the scripture reads to me is two prophets. They will witness in the City where their Lord was crucified for 1260 days. When they are overpowered and killed their "bodies" will lay in the streets for 3-1/2 days while those who took joy in their killing celebrate. Then God raises them up and they stood on their "feet".

Its beyond me how anyone doesn't see them as two people.

This is what the Spirit has revealed to me regarding Rev 11. "A sign that can't be mistaken"

Those that take joy in their killing will be deceived and believe the lie of the beast and false prophet who acts in his behalf. And so be condemned. There is no further repentance for them. That is judgment. If fact that not only don't they repent but they curse God as He pours out suffering on those people. Even though God has their lives in His hands.

As Paul wrote concerning the End.
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness

Jesus said a lampstand is a church.Not an individual.
So i understand it as two churches(assemblies).

I also understand the things these two churches do are things a military can do.

So Im expecting to see two "christian"gentile militaries occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months.

 

[Nathan12]

Jesus said a lampstand is a church.Not an individual.

Context is critical. "Lampstand" can be applied to a church or an individual. In the case of the two witnesses, who are also two prophets, and are also called lampstands, we should accept it for what it says. It would be BIZARRE to claim that those two witnesses are churches, since churches are not literally killed and resurrected.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Context is critical. "Lampstand" can be applied to a church or an individual. In the case of the two witnesses, who are also two prophets, and are also called lampstands, we should accept it for what it says. It would be BIZARRE to claim that those two witnesses are churches, since churches are not literally killed and resurrected.

Yes an assembly and even two assemblies can be killed and resurrected .
I can show where jesus says a lampstand is a church.

Revelation 1:20 - John's Vision on Patmos

This is the mystery of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

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So where do you say that Jesus said a lampstand is a person?

 

[Nathan12]

So where do you say that Jesus said a lampstand is a person?

REVELATION 11
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks [lampstands] standing before the God of the earth...
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2 witnesses = 2 olive trees = 2 lampstands = 2 prophets

 

[Nathan12]

But, the way the scripture reads, there's nothing to really indicate that it's talking about two individuals.

Two prophets = two individuals.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

REVELATION 11
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks [lampstands] standing before the God of the earth...
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2 witnesses = 2 olive trees = 2 lampstands = 2 prophets

So even though jesus says a lampstand is a church,you believe these two lampstands can not possible be two churches(assemblies)?

 

[Edward]

REVELATION 11
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks [lampstands] standing before the God of the earth...
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2 witnesses = 2 olive trees = 2 lampstands = 2 prophets

See it's all in perspective as you read it. I'm not saying you are wrong or I am right, I'm saying that it can be read different ways and that makes me go hmm.

Or maybe the two prophets are not necessarily the two witnesses? I dunno for sure Brother.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

See it's all in perspective as you read it. I'm not saying you are wrong or I am right, I'm saying that it can be read different ways and that makes me go hmm.

Or maybe the two prophets are not necessarily the two witnesses? I dunno for sure Brother.

Theres alot of things make me go hmm about those two witnesses of Christ.
Like why are they doing tr exact opposite of what Jesus teaches in the gospel?

Revelation 11:10 - The Witnesses Killed and Raised

And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send one another gifts, because these two prophets had tormented them.

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Where did Jesus send anyone to torture other people?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Revelation 11:5 - The Two Witnesses

If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed.

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What would you bet that when these two witnesses give the command to fire,that fire will come down out of heaven?

Revelation 13:13 - The Beast from the Earth

And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people.

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[Shilohsfoal]

Matthew 5:43 - Love Your Enemies

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor' and 'Hate your enemy.'

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Matthew 5:44 - Love Your Enemies

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

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I cant find where Jesus taught his witnesses to kill and tormemt others for any reason.
I just cant seem to find where any of Jesus disciples went about killing and tormenting anyone.Do not those who are witnesses of Christ practice what Jesus preaches?Or do some of his witnesses practice the opposite of what Christ preaches?

Matthew 24:48 - Readiness at Any Hour

But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, 'My master will be away a long time.'

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Matthew 24:49 - Readiness at Any Hour

And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.

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Matthew 24:50 - Readiness at Any Hour

The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate.

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Matthew 24:51 - Readiness at Any Hour

Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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We all as witnesess of Christ need to practice what Jesus preaches.There is a resurrection of the righteous and a resurection of the wicked.

 

[Randy]

Jesus said a lampstand is a church.Not an individual.
So i understand it as two churches(assemblies).

I also understand the things these two churches do are things a military can do.

So Im expecting to see two "christian"gentile militaries occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months.

You ignore the text then.
The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

 

[Randy]

Revelation 11:5 - The Two Witnesses

If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed.

biblehub.com

What would you bet that when these two witnesses give the command to fire,that fire will come down out of heaven?

Revelation 13:13 - The Beast from the Earth

And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people.

biblehub.com

I would state the fire is from God. This is the last warning before the great tribulation. (1260 days) and no power will be able to stop it until it has been completed. So if any in those days has any shred of faith or love for Jesus they may be saved for God is a loving and just God who warns and warns upfront. It is His set purpose that this testimony be stated in all its fullness.

From the past - Gods prophet protected by fire
Then he sent to Elijah a captain with his company of fifty men. The captain went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, “Man of God, the king says, ‘Come down!’ ”

Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

At this the king sent to Elijah another captain with his fifty men. The captain said to him, “Man of God, this is what the king says, ‘Come down at once!’ ”

“If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You ignore the text then.
The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

You ignore Christ then.
A lampstand is a church.

Revelation 1:20 - John's Vision on Patmos

This is the mystery of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

biblehub.com

I also have other scripture that shows it is a military that controls Jerusalem during those 42 months.And otger scripture that shows those nations of the beast attacking that military.

Can you show any scripture outside of revelation that shows two people defending jerusalem during those same 42 months ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I would state the fire is from God. This is the last warning before the great tribulation. (1260 days) and no power will be able to stop it until it has been completed. So if any in those days has any shred of faith or love for Jesus they may be saved for God is a loving and just God who warns and warns upfront. It is His set purpose that this testimony be stated in all its fullness.

From the past - Gods prophet protected by fire
Then he sent to Elijah a captain with his company of fifty men. The captain went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, “Man of God, the king says, ‘Come down!’ ”

Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

At this the king sent to Elijah another captain with his fifty men. The captain said to him, “Man of God, this is what the king says, ‘Come down at once!’ ”

“If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men.

So you believe the second beast(with TWO HORNS) which makes fire come down from heaven is God?

Revelation 13:13 - The Beast from the Earth

And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people.

biblehub.com

You do realise the second beast is later described as the false prophet dont you.That is a prophet tat speaks lies.

 

[Randy]

So you believe the second beast(with TWO HORNS) which makes fire come down from heaven is God?

Revelation 13:13 - The Beast from the Earth

And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people.

biblehub.com

You do realise the second beast is later described as the false prophet dont you.That is a prophet tat speaks lies.

I stating the two witnesses in REV 11 are from God as in true prophets. AFTER that testimony is completed those who take joy in their deaths will be sent a powerful delusion so as to believe the lie and be condemned. The false prophet who performs those signs as allowed by God acts in behalf of the first beast.

Note the city the two witnesses are in, Jerusalem, in those days is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt in the text.

 

[Randy]

You ignore Christ then.
A lampstand is a church.

Revelation 1:20 - John's Vision on Patmos

This is the mystery of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

biblehub.com

I also have other scripture that shows it is a military that controls Jerusalem during those 42 months.And otger scripture that shows those nations of the beast attacking that military.

Can you show any scripture outside of revelation that shows two people defending jerusalem during those same 42 months ?

I believe Rev 11 was also from Jesus and is the very text that speaks of these two witnesses.
Why would I need to look elsewhere then Rev 11 to justify Rev 11??
They are not defending Jerusalem. Rather they serve Jesus.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I believe Rev 11 was also from Jesus and is the very text that speaks of these two witnesses.
Why would I need to look elsewhere then Rev 11 to justify Rev 11??
They are not defending Jerusalem. Rather they serve Jesus.

So you believe they are serving Jesus by kiling and tormeting other people.
Now can you provide any scripture showing Jesus teaching his witnesses to kill and torment humans?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I believe Rev 11 was also from Jesus and is the very text that speaks of these two witnesses.
Why would I need to look elsewhere then Rev 11 to justify Rev 11??
They are not defending Jerusalem. Rather they serve Jesus.

Thats how you learn and gain knowledge.By comparing scripture.

 

[Randy]

Thats how you learn and gain knowledge.By comparing scripture.

I not having any difficulty reading and believing and understanding rev 11 as was written about two prophets who testified for 1260 days then were killed and refused burial and raised to life again as the whole world look on.

 

[Randy]

So you believe they are serving Jesus by kiling and tormeting other people.
Now can you provide any scripture showing Jesus teaching his witnesses to kill and torment humans?

I serve Jesus I believe this testimony as was written. They hated Jesus because He testified to the Sanhedrin that what they did was evil. Likewise His faithful witnesses will also be hated. The testimony is given in Jerusalem but is for the whole world. I never look for fault in the Father. No one loves more than the Father and no fault can be found in Him. It was He who gave this testimony to Jesus. Clearly the Lords patience is coming to a rapid end in these days.

lets define torment and I didn't read no rain just in Jerusalem.
They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.